Do you legally conceal carry?

Yes, every day and every place that the law will let me.
Total votes: 215 (42%)
Yes, only when I know I am going to someplace with increased risk
Total votes: 71 (14%)
Yes, sometimes, if I think about it.
Total votes: 41 (8%)
Not really, but I have a permit regardless.
Total votes: 64 (13%)
No, and I don't have a permit.
Total votes: 119 (23%)
Total votes: 510

Re: Do You Carry

303
I've had a Missouri CWP since I moved here in 1999. Before that I had a Washington state carry permit for the 12 years I lived there, 10 years in the Seattle area then over on the Peninsula near Quilcene for 2 years. I carried a S&W .38 spl. Airweight back then, but after experiencing some misfires due to a weak firing pin spring and shallow strike pattern on the primer, I sold it. Now I carry a Charter Arms .38 spl. Off Duty in a clip-on waistband holster, or a . Cobra 38 spl. 2-shot Derringer in my pocket. Obviously I prefer smaller, lighter carry guns because big heavy ordinance tends to get left at home. The derringer is barely noticeable, like a pocket knife. Sometimes I forget I have it, not a good thing when I walk into my bank! :wacko: I don't trust semi-autos for carrying because every one I've ever owned has jammed on occasion.

Only once in all those years have I had to rely on my weapon to prevent a dangerous situation, and I didn't actually pull it out and 'brandish' it. I was driving to work on "The Ave" (University Avenue in the U-District) in Seattle around 6:00 PM. I was a soundman at a club where I had a PA system installed for the bands on weekends. Right in the middle of the street were four white skinheads beating up a homeless black guy, they were taking turns kicking him as he lay on the pavement curled up in a fetal position. There were at least a dozen people on the sidewalk yelling at the thugs to stop, but nobody seemed to want to physically intervene. I stopped my van and got out, took a few steps towards the scene and shouted in a loud voice "That's enough, now get the f**k out of here NOW!" When they looked up, I stuck my hand inside my jacket and grasped the grip of the Airweight, choosing not to actually show it to them unless I had to.
Apparently that was enough because after hurling some obscenities they took off at a fast past down the sidewalk. Maybe they saw something in my face that said I was serious, or simply didn't want to chance it if I was bluffing, I don't know. A few onlookers then rushed over to help the homeless guy, and I got back into my van and got out of there before an ambulance or the cops showed up. As I drove off I had to calm my nerves, thanking the stars how lucky I was I didn't have to shoot anyone. What a mess I almost got myself into! :shock:

Was it worth it? Would they have killed the poor guy if I hadn't done what I did, or would the cops have showed up in time? I don't know. But I still carry. I hope something like that never happens again, but the experience taught me that I'm not just paranoid... these situations DO happen, and could happen to any one of us at any time.
I've seen all good people turn their heads each day
so satisfied I'm on my way

Re: Do You Carry

306
It is all but impossible to get a carry permit in NJ. A story I heard. A pizza restaurant owner in NJ had the same name as someone wanted by the Chicago mob. He was kidnapped thrown in the trunk and was being driven to Chicago. He managed to escape and testified against the two guys. He now had some reasonable fear of retaliation and was still refused a carry permit. Not sure how true the story is but it does indicate the near impossibility of getting a permit in NJ.
Remember in NJ to buy any fire arm including BB guns you need to have a Firearm Purchase ID. Also to buy a hand gun you need a separate permit for each purchase and it is Only good for 30 days. You need to go to your local Police Department for this.

Re: Do You Carry

307
The fallacy of carrying is that many people still assume that the threat will allow them to draw. In most situations where self protection is necessary the threat already has a weapon in hand, or is within the 21 foot stand-off distance necessary for even a quick draw to happen.

If you have to draw against an armed threat who has it aimed at you, you are dead.

If you have to draw against a threat armed with an edged weapon or bludgeon within the 21 foot stand-off distance, you are dead.

If you stand up and exchange shots with an armed threat, you are likely dead.

Surviving combat means you need good situational awareness. In many situations, your response is determined by proximity of the threat, severity of the threat, and available responses.

Most of us realize that the order of response is, flight, cover, submission, and only as a last resort fight.

Those of us who have been in an ambush understand the criteria that must be used to survive such encounters. And for civilian concealed carry the situation is almost always an ambush, only occasionally a meeting engagement.

I carry. I also employ the Ranger defense, retire to defensible ground and reply with massive overkill.
If you want to be a leader, lead from the front, and don't look back.

Image

Re: Do You Carry

308
Yet we still get reports of people using guns to defend themselves from armed attackers. Even totally inexperience shooters win once in a while. It's nice to have some option besides holding a good thought or throwing office supplies hoping to inflict a lethal paper cut. Not all attackers are surprises-mall shootings, schools, work place. Somebody carrying would have some chance to get set. And knowing there is an armed response available immediately may deter an attack. Interestingly, when newspapers print addresses of CCW people, reports of crime drop in their neighborhoods for a while.

I don't carry all the time. Never felt the need. But I do have a 9mm nearby at night.
I live 15 minutes from the cop shop, when the roads are dry and fast, and am on a highway. People occasionally stop and steal my apples or walk their dogs in my yard.
Somebody stops and wants to come in, I am on my own for a while.

LEOS seem to believe that BGs escalate as they repeat bad behaviors. They may just blow you away even if you are unarmed and compliant. People, even experienced shooters, can miss or just wound you. Some one attacking may be discouraged and turned a bit if you shoot, or they may just wound you going by and keep running if you shoot. You may get lucky in an attack and get your defense going-if you have a defense. Otherwise you are pretty well helpless. Running and hiding is the recommended defense if possible, but that can get you killed also.

As an old timer type, I see no reason to have to fight hand to hand with younger and stronger attackers or multiple attackers, and I don't run real well any more. Under disparity of force laws, I can use a gun to defend my poor tired achy old body. An attacker doesn't need a weapon to kill you.

My CC instructor kept emphasizing that the last thing you want to do is use the gun, but if your life is on the line, not to hesitate. If you don't have it and need it, your dead. With it, you have a chance. Maybe not a great chance, but better than a steer at the slaughter house.
Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children what it was once like in the United States where men were free.
- Ronald Reagan

Re: Do You Carry

309
sturner wrote:The fallacy of carrying is that many people still assume that the threat will allow them to draw. In most situations where self protection is necessary the threat already has a weapon in hand, or is within the 21 foot stand-off distance necessary for even a quick draw to happen.

If you have to draw against an armed threat who has it aimed at you, you are dead.

If you have to draw against a threat armed with an edged weapon or bludgeon within the 21 foot stand-off distance, you are dead.

If you stand up and exchange shots with an armed threat, you are likely dead.
These are not absolutes.
Surviving combat means you need good situational awareness. In many situations, your response is determined by proximity of the threat, severity of the threat, and available responses.


Agree wholeheartedly.
Most of us realize that the order of response is, flight, cover, submission, and only as a last resort fight.
I am not sure that this is entirely accurate, especially with training. Would you consider creating distance as a sort of flight?
Those of us who have been in an ambush understand the criteria that must be used to survive such encounters. And for civilian concealed carry the situation is almost always an ambush, only occasionally a meeting engagement.
I think the fallacy is that most do not understand the speed and violence of the thing. I can talk my way out of damned near anything, but there must be time and opportunity and those are often luxuries which aren't available.
I carry. I also employ the Ranger defense, retire to defensible ground and reply with massive overkill.
Are/were you a Ranger? I've never heard of "The Ranger Defense" though I was trained in martial arts by a former Ranger. He was a strange guy but I have no doubt of his effectiveness.

IMO, there is no such thing as massive overkill if someone is trying to kill you.

Regards,

Josh
Image

Re: Do You Carry

310
sturner wrote:The fallacy of carrying is that many people still assume that the threat will allow them to draw. In most situations where self protection is necessary the threat already has a weapon in hand, or is within the 21 foot stand-off distance necessary for even a quick draw to happen.

If you have to draw against an armed threat who has it aimed at you, you are dead.

If you have to draw against a threat armed with an edged weapon or bludgeon within the 21 foot stand-off distance, you are dead.
Regarding a person with a gun aimed at the carrier, the decision becomes if the gun is being used as intimidation or being used in a willful attempt to bring harm. Now, if you believe the person is going to shoot then there is nothing lost by trying to draw and shoot.

Addressing the use of CCW against an edged weapon the Tueller drill becomes less relevant though still useful. The premise of the Tueller drill was to see the minimum reactionary time it took an officer to unholster a firearm from a retention holster, aim, and shoot a person that has take aggressive actions.

But with this drill there are two caveats; one is that the aggressor knows the person is armed and two is that the aggressor is the first to initialize the physical actions of attack (i.e. charging the cop).

Now with a holdup situation we see two difference; one being with CCW the aggressor does not know conclusively that the CCW is armed and two the initiation of the physical action of force (drawing the gun) is on the side of the CCW.

Here is a scenario with edged weapons:

Aggressor stops CCW permit holder not knowing conclusively that the victim is armed. The CCW permit holder seemingly complies and reaches into their left pocket for their wallet and tells the aggressor that they will give the IPOD to the aggressor as well, in the right pocket.

Out comes the wallet in the left pocket that draws the aggressors attention and out of the right side holster comes a pistol that is fired at close range (reducing the need to aim).

Now you may argue that the lack of knowledge that the victim is armed and the CCW being able to take the physical actions of force (drawing the gun) may only give the CCW a second or two but then you have to factor in that the Tueller drill time was 1.5 seconds. So it is far from absolute as your analysis claims.
sturner wrote:If you stand up and exchange shots with an armed threat, you are likely dead.
This is by all means incorrect or fractually wrong. The most likely outcome is that both sides fire one or two shots they both miss and everyone retreats. While police accuracy numbers have to control for distance the hit rate is about 15-20% max for real life situations with lab tests having a higher hit rate (80%) within 3-15 feet. Let's say the combined chance of hit is 50% and the chances that a person will die.

When looking that the death rate from a gunshot wound we see a death rate from pistols from 11%-25%. Now lets say out out a group of 100 people we apply these factors.[1]

Chances of hit 50% or 50 people hit (factoring the training of a police officers not a criminal)

Now, lets say the happy medium of death is 18% so out to the 50 people hit there are 9 deaths (50 people X 18% death rate)

So in a firefight the chances of dying are about 9%. Thus most likely both parties will survive.
sturner wrote:Surviving combat means you need good situational awareness. In many situations, your response is determined by proximity of the threat, severity of the threat, and available responses.

Most of us realize that the order of response is, flight, cover, submission, and only as a last resort fight.

Those of us who have been in an ambush understand the criteria that must be used to survive such encounters. And for civilian concealed carry the situation is almost always an ambush, only occasionally a meeting engagement.

I carry. I also employ the Ranger defense, retire to defensible ground and reply with massive overkill.
Situational awareness is paramount as it can mean avoiding the need to use force altogether. One final note is that you fail to factor in the CCW bystander in your carry analysis.

[1]
http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/1993/10 ... ves-00000/

Re: Do You Carry

311
I wasn't gonna participate in this thread beyond voting but, yeah, I carry. All the time that it is legal and everywhere I can. Spent 20 years working as a pro musician and played all the great places....in Chicago, Detroit, Miami and a few others. We played night clubs and bars in the 70's and 80's and had a blast and made a lot of money. We also played for a week at a time in a dive or two and more than once when the leader got paid in cash by the bar owner some Jackass tried to steal a weeks wages from a bunch of geek musicians 'cause lots of people knew that at 2:30 am one member of the band was gonna get paid.

Lots of guys I worked with carried in those days illegally. We were pretty street smart and still people got hurt...few got dead but it was a rough life for a 20+ year old.

So when Illinois was forced to adopt concealed carry I was first in line and it is something I wanted to do for over 30 years...to be armed and legal. I'm a gentle person and don't wanna hurt anyone or see anyone get hurt. I'm also a professional martial arts instructor in edged weapons and have a very different response to street combat than most people. I wanted to say that the chances of encountering a BG trying to rob me or attack my Wife or friends at gun point and having the skills that I have is not impossible but not likely.

There's lots of guys on the street who are not afraid of guns or violence but not a lot of them are as adept as guys who go the range regularly or who train and have the proper skills and mindset. I'm not automatically dead because some person pulls a pistol at 6' and demands whatever he wants. Few of the low lifes we will encounter on the street are indefatigable zombies who can snuff us or take 6 rounds and keep on coming. Some are...probably. But not many of them have skills that regular folks can develop if they train a bit and pick good equipment.

Real life street crime (few will have experienced it) is not at all like the movies nor as we might think it will be. It's really scary and it changes you forever in one shot. Whether that change is good or bad can depend on a lot of things but I am a firm believer that we will fight/survive the way we train. Not training is not a good idea. Even if all we do is visualize then that is better than saying "it probably will never happen" and betting on that outcome. Like a violent Summer storm, "That won't happen" is not a good game plan.

VooDoo
Tyrants disarm the people they intend to oppress.

I am sworn to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

Re: Do You Carry

312
dougb said, "As an old timer type, I see no reason to have to fight hand to hand with younger and stronger attackers or multiple attackers, and I don't run real well any more. Under disparity of force laws, I can use a gun to defend my poor tired achy old body. An attacker doesn't need a weapon to kill you."

I just turned 70 and am thinking about getting my doc to do the paperwork for a handicap parking badge. while I'm talking to her about that I think I will also inquire about a part b elec. scooter. (I could build a real "battlewagon" out of that. IDPA, etc. should have a scooter class).

now the next time your cellphone rings, don't yank out the snubbie and yell "hello!" at it. some people just don't get old guy humor.

be safe. have fun.

Re: Do You Carry

313
mark wrote:Just curious about the carry habits of our forum members.
Sheriff here won't allow it, as they do not believe in the 2nd Amendment to the United States Constitution. So, a CCW is just not an option unless you are an Actor, Politician or an Actor pretending to be a Politician - or quite possibly a Politician who pretends to be an Actor.

Either way, the rest of us here in this country get screwed.

Maybe if I go stay 4-nights at a Holiday Inn Express, I might qualify as an Actor, or possibly an Actor playing the role of a Politician and therefore, qualify as having a 'need' to carry a concealed firearm for self-defense. Other than that, I'm screwed too in this county.
The problem with delusion is that too many people are far too willing to accept it.

Re: Do You Carry

314
Jerseyjon wrote:...Remember in NJ to buy any fire arm including BB guns you need to have a Firearm Purchase ID. Also to buy a hand gun you need a separate permit for each purchase and it is Only good for 30 days. You need to go to your local Police Department for this.
This was not even required in East Germany circa 1941. At least in Nazi Germany, all you needed was one (1) permit to purchase (tongue firmly in cheek). Duh.

Maybe I should not be talking being a resident of California, myself. The latest legislation signed by Governor Brown, dictates that I must register my ammunition purchases with the State. Well, that exactly what eventually Nazi Germany ended up doing and such a "list" of ammunition owners helped them to further disarm the citizenry. Of course, real "gun control" began in 1933 Germany, after Hitler became its Chancellor and while its president was still Hindenburg. A fitting name for a president who eventually allowed the burning of German Constitutional protections, including the "concept" of due process.

How history just loves to repeat itself.

Nazi Jersey? Sounds a lot like Nazi Germany.

At least the Mets are still free.
The problem with delusion is that too many people are far too willing to accept it.

Re: Do You Carry

315
gungun wrote: The next time your cellphone rings, don't yank out the snubbie and yell "hello!" at it. some people just don't get old guy humor.

be safe. have fun.
What a riot!
I have a bad back, arthritis in 1 knee and hand, I'll be getting my CCL shortly..already have the carry piece, a Ruger SR9c
prob this next moth I'll take the class...I already have several holsters picked out for the job.

This Samsung Note V it doesn't feed 9mm Critical Duty....dang it all!
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, make violent revolution inevitable.

Re: Do You Carry

319
Chicago is quickly becoming the Wild West and I feel very much on my own in the context of shootings happening and no way the police can help in any kind of timeliness. All they can do is deal with the aftermath. I got my license in June and intend to carry as much as possible until the shooting rate gets back to reasonable.
-Kat
Illinois Chapter President
LGC Certified Instructor, Intro to Pistol and Range Safety

Re: Do You Carry

320
SeaDragonTattoo wrote:Chicago is quickly becoming the Wild West and I feel very much on my own in the context of shootings happening and no way the police can help in any kind of timeliness. All they can do is deal with the aftermath. I got my license in June and intend to carry as much as possible until the shooting rate gets back to reasonable.
When I lived in Glennwood I carried illegally all the time and everywhere I went and I hated the gun. I carried out of fear. I moved and that changed. Now I’m trained, licensed and live where I don’t have to carry. It would be nice if the gang culture would change “end prohibition". It’s bad enough Mexico still uses our drug laws as a commodity. Sadly they are mostly just kids who want nice things but don’t want to work and were never taught to strive or given the opportunity because the community they live in has been left to rot.
Image
Keep Bow Tight ~Sitting Bull
http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/90682-i ... ooks-ahead

Re: Do You Carry

322
I have an Oregon CHL. I'm waiting now for my Utah and Arizona permits which will allow me to carry across the river in Washington as well as a majority of states. I don't currently carry all the time because my employer has a strict no-gun policy that would result in termination in the unlikely event they found out I was carrying on company property. I like my job (though not the policy), so I comply. In any case I've never felt so threatened that I felt the need to always be armed. I will go strapped if I am going to a place where I felt it is wise to so.
Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change this policy without notice.
Image
Image

Re: Do You Carry

323
I don't have a cc permit for my state because they are difficult to get, but not impossible in my county. I do have permits for out of state and I carry out of state or at least have a pistol in my vehicle.

California is a "may issue" state, it's up to the local chief of police or county sheriff at their discretion to grant it. The criteria is subjective and varies by city/county. In 2009 Edward Peruta filed suit because of denial of a ccw permit in San Diego County, he filed suit in US District Court and lost and appealed to the 9th Circuit. He won in a three judge panel (court of appeals) but lost when it was appealed en banc (11 judges). Gun groups didn't take it to the Supremes at that time because Scalia had died, I wonder if they will revisit it under DT.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Do You Carry

325
I only carry weekends when away from home these days.

Not allowed to carry at work.

So, I have a Springfield EMP in a Consolevault armrest locked compartment in my vehicle. I keep a 1911 locked in a quick access Gunvault in the loungeroom and my Hi Power is locked in a Gunvault by the bed. While I don't carry that often, I usually am no more than a minute away from a firearm. Not ideal, but a fair compromise given the minimal risk I face of needing it.
The Drop Bear, Thylarctos plummetus, is a large, arboreal, predatory marsupial related to the Koala.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Amazon [Bot], Google [Bot], Semrush [Bot] and 3 guests