http://www.examiner.com/article/jim-wil ... o-and-nato
I know nothing about this information source; therefore, I cannot vouch for its accuracy. Having said that, I'll offer that if these rumors are borne out, then the U.S. was wise to spy on Germany; and, it's too bad our man got caught doing so.
Re: Germany Switching Sides ?????
2It seems unlikely. However, Germany needs Russian energy so badly that their behavior is indicative of an addict. I'm not sure they can even act in their own self interest anymore.
Re: Germany Switching Sides ?????
3Germany is the economic power house of the European Union. More so than France. Without Germany, the EU will probably fall apart in a matter of time.
A free-market economy isn't really "free" when monopolies start springing up.
"Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far." -Theodore Roosevelt
"Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far." -Theodore Roosevelt
Re: Germany Switching Sides ?????
4Alternate title: World War III: chapter 1
history is much like an endless waltz, the three beats of war peace and revolution will continue on forever, and this time the revolution won't be confined to russia.
history is much like an endless waltz, the three beats of war peace and revolution will continue on forever, and this time the revolution won't be confined to russia.
Check out my blog Equilibrium State
Socialism is economic suffrage
Communism is the antiquation of currency
Socialism is economic suffrage
Communism is the antiquation of currency
Re: Germany Switching Sides ?????
5Debbie Downer jeez...gendoikari wrote:Alternate title: World War III: chapter 1
history is much like an endless waltz, the three beats of war peace and revolution will continue on forever, and this time the revolution won't be confined to russia.
Re: Germany Switching Sides ?????
6Perhaps you are new here, I am the professional and resident Major BuzzkillCabrito wrote:Debbie Downer jeez...gendoikari wrote:Alternate title: World War III: chapter 1
history is much like an endless waltz, the three beats of war peace and revolution will continue on forever, and this time the revolution won't be confined to russia.
Check out my blog Equilibrium State
Socialism is economic suffrage
Communism is the antiquation of currency
Socialism is economic suffrage
Communism is the antiquation of currency
Re: Germany Switching Sides ?????
7He's been here longer than either of us.gendoikari wrote:Perhaps you are new here, I am the professional and resident Major BuzzkillCabrito wrote:Debbie Downer jeez...gendoikari wrote:Alternate title: World War III: chapter 1
history is much like an endless waltz, the three beats of war peace and revolution will continue on forever, and this time the revolution won't be confined to russia.
Re: Germany Switching Sides ?????
8"Jim Willie: I got word from a client... I call him London Paul. He's a former banker in London who does alot of private consulting, investigation, and feasibility studies and other general work with a bunch of clients.
He just came back from a client trip where some Russians told him that their information, confirmed by Asian partners (clients - colleagues), is that they have heard Germany made a decision already to leave the EU, leave the Euro, and leave NATO, and join the BRICS nations, and come about full force to back the new BRICS gold currency."
Sounds an awful lot like "I know a guy who has a friend whose 3rd cousin says he heard about someone who said..."
Germany does have a huge dependence on Russian fossil fuels (despite all their ballyhooed conversion to solar), as well as to French nuclear power, and that is going to keep them from backing the US push for sanctions. But to claim that they'll completely cut economic and military ties to the West is unlikely.
He just came back from a client trip where some Russians told him that their information, confirmed by Asian partners (clients - colleagues), is that they have heard Germany made a decision already to leave the EU, leave the Euro, and leave NATO, and join the BRICS nations, and come about full force to back the new BRICS gold currency."
Sounds an awful lot like "I know a guy who has a friend whose 3rd cousin says he heard about someone who said..."
Germany does have a huge dependence on Russian fossil fuels (despite all their ballyhooed conversion to solar), as well as to French nuclear power, and that is going to keep them from backing the US push for sanctions. But to claim that they'll completely cut economic and military ties to the West is unlikely.
Re: Germany Switching Sides ?????
9Germany could be trying to position itself to brink back the Mark, and position it as the reserve currency in case of an american collapse.
Check out my blog Equilibrium State
Socialism is economic suffrage
Communism is the antiquation of currency
Socialism is economic suffrage
Communism is the antiquation of currency
Re: Germany Switching Sides ?????
10It's hard to imagine Germany leaving the EU as that is their primary export market and a big factor in their economic success. As for spying on them, why wouldn't we given their prominent role in starting the Balkan wars in the 1990's. Genscher was a piece of work.
"Only voluntary, inspired self-restraint can raise man above the world stream of materialism. Our lives will have to change if we want to save life from self-destruction." ~ Alexander Solzhenitzyn
Re: Germany Switching Sides ?????
11I find it hard to get mad about the CIA spying on other countries... that's kind of their job... It's individual civilians that's crossing the line, at least without reason.OldScratch wrote:It's hard to imagine Germany leaving the EU as that is their primary export market and a big factor in their economic success. As for spying on them, why wouldn't we given their prominent role in starting the Balkan wars in the 1990's. Genscher was a piece of work.
Check out my blog Equilibrium State
Socialism is economic suffrage
Communism is the antiquation of currency
Socialism is economic suffrage
Communism is the antiquation of currency
Re: Germany Switching Sides ?????
12I could see them leaving NATO but not the EU. If they were to leave influence of the US, I wonder if other western European nations would follow.
All problems can be solved with a copious amount of high explosives.
Re: Germany Switching Sides ?????
13NATO lost it's purpose many years ago.M4Builder wrote:I could see them leaving NATO but not the EU. If they were to leave influence of the US, I wonder if other western European nations would follow.
Re: Germany Switching Sides ?????
14which is sadsikacz wrote:NATO lost it's purpose many years ago.M4Builder wrote:I could see them leaving NATO but not the EU. If they were to leave influence of the US, I wonder if other western European nations would follow.
Check out my blog Equilibrium State
Socialism is economic suffrage
Communism is the antiquation of currency
Socialism is economic suffrage
Communism is the antiquation of currency
Re: Germany Switching Sides ?????
15Germany leave the E.U.?
Germany is the E.U.
140 years later Germany is where Bismarck dreamed it would be... at the heart of European affairs and an international power.
They aren't going to throw that away anytime soon.
Germany is the E.U.
140 years later Germany is where Bismarck dreamed it would be... at the heart of European affairs and an international power.
They aren't going to throw that away anytime soon.
"... the rich rob the poor under the cover of law. We plunder the rich under the cover of our own courage." - Captain " Black Sam" Bellamy ( executed for piracy, 1717).
Re: Germany Switching Sides ?????
16Probably not. NATO is another story, it's an extention of United States foreign policy and increasingly it doesn't align itself with German interests.comedian wrote:Germany leave the E.U.?
Germany is the E.U.
140 years later Germany is where Bismarck dreamed it would be... at the heart of European affairs and an international power.
They aren't going to throw that away anytime soon.
Re: Germany Switching Sides ?????
17NATO was meant to stand up to Russia. Most of NATO doesn't want to do that anymore.
Europe is addicted to Russian fossil fuels. It's acting like a junky who's surprised their dealer isn't their best friend.
Europe is addicted to Russian fossil fuels. It's acting like a junky who's surprised their dealer isn't their best friend.
Re: Germany Switching Sides ?????
18This.comedian wrote:Germany leave the E.U.?
Germany is the E.U.
140 years later Germany is where Bismarck dreamed it would be... at the heart of European affairs and an international power.
They aren't going to throw that away anytime soon.
Re: Germany Switching Sides ?????
19Germany switching sides? No. They're securing gas supplies.
CDFingers
CDFingers
Crazy cat peekin' through a lace bandana
like a one-eyed Cheshire, like a diamond-eyed Jack
like a one-eyed Cheshire, like a diamond-eyed Jack
Re: Germany Switching Sides ?????
20Only a stupid country doesn't spy on their allies. That's what keeps them allies. And Germany and others are just angry that they can't spy as well as the US can.gendoikari wrote:I find it hard to get mad about the CIA spying on other countries... that's kind of their job... It's individual civilians that's crossing the line, at least without reason.OldScratch wrote:It's hard to imagine Germany leaving the EU as that is their primary export market and a big factor in their economic success. As for spying on them, why wouldn't we given their prominent role in starting the Balkan wars in the 1990's. Genscher was a piece of work.
As far as France and Germany pulling out of the EU that's going to happen as soon as every other country leaves first. Neither is ever happy with what the US does. Too often it's more about wanting to keep their own sphere of influence than do anything worthwhile. Though I can't remember much about Germany not being happy about the US involvement in the Ukraine.
"No one can build his security upon the nobleness of another person."
-Willa Cather
-Willa Cather
Re: Germany Switching Sides ?????
21^^^^ Germany has spent 250 billion euros to stabilize the euro.Fukshot wrote:This.comedian wrote:Germany leave the E.U.?
Germany is the E.U.
140 years later Germany is where Bismarck dreamed it would be... at the heart of European affairs and an international power.
They aren't going to throw that away anytime soon.
The examiner is an un-edited blog hub.
Re: Germany Switching Sides ?????
22The very fact that we are talking of " sides" now shows just how effective State Department propaganda is.
About 100 years ago a small group of Slavic nationalists touched off the First World War. It would be ironic if the the descendants of the politicians of yesterday forgot what happened and touched off the final act in The Great Fuck Up almost exactly a century later.
About 100 years ago a small group of Slavic nationalists touched off the First World War. It would be ironic if the the descendants of the politicians of yesterday forgot what happened and touched off the final act in The Great Fuck Up almost exactly a century later.
"... the rich rob the poor under the cover of law. We plunder the rich under the cover of our own courage." - Captain " Black Sam" Bellamy ( executed for piracy, 1717).
Re: Germany Switching Sides ?????
23Remember folks, key lessons to learn from the first one: Don't leave the meeting early, and soldiers at their core are proletariatcomedian wrote:The very fact that we are talking of " sides" now shows just how effective State Department propaganda is.
About 100 years ago a small group of Slavic nationalists touched off the First World War. It would be ironic if the the descendants of the politicians of yesterday forgot what happened and touched off the final act in The Great Fuck Up almost exactly a century later.
Check out my blog Equilibrium State
Socialism is economic suffrage
Communism is the antiquation of currency
Socialism is economic suffrage
Communism is the antiquation of currency
Re: Germany Switching Sides ?????
24Leaving the EU? That would be insane, stupid, and politically untenable. There is a small right-wing faction that wants that, but they are deliberately ignored (remember Germany's history). Does this mean that Germany loves the EU, and thinks that it is well administered? Absolutely not.
Abandoning the Euro? Same argument. It would be economic suicide. Being in the Euro is expensive (because of the lack of central governance, it means that the rich countries end up paying the debts of the PIIGS countries), but being outside the Euro would be more expensive. Same observation about right-wing nutcases.
Leaving NATO? That would be difficult, as it would require massive legal changes (I think membership in NATO is part of the constitution, need to read up on it). And it would make little difference. Germany doesn't enjoy its military, doesn't want to be a military power of its own, and doesn't want to waste money on it. It could further reduce its contribution to NATO (to near zero), and replace most of its forces with what amounts to glorified border guards.
Is Germany disgruntled with the CIA and NSA spying? Yes, the governing coalition pays lip service to being upset. While in reality, everyone knows that the US will spy on anything, in particular its allies.
Consider the source: No idea who this Jim Willie person is, but the Examiner is a bunch of wing nuts.
Securing the gas supply: Yes, at the international trade level, Germany needs gas from Russia. But it needs it less than most other central and eastern European countries. I think German gas imports from Russia will be reduced as rapidly as possible, and within a few years may hit zero. Remember, to a large extent Russia needs Europe more than Europe needs Russia: Selling gas is their main source of hard currency, and running a pipeline all the way to China is a giant and slow undertaking (look at a map, and see how big Siberia is).
Also remember that the US also depends crucially on Russia. Russia is a big trading partner for the US, and the #1 item is aerospace. Why? Because the Space Station (technically called "international", but in reality a NASA boondoggle) can only be supplied by Russian rockets. Look at this article some time, for some surprising information on Russia's foreign trade: http://www.zeit.de/wirtschaft/2014-07/r ... te-exporte
Abandoning the Euro? Same argument. It would be economic suicide. Being in the Euro is expensive (because of the lack of central governance, it means that the rich countries end up paying the debts of the PIIGS countries), but being outside the Euro would be more expensive. Same observation about right-wing nutcases.
Leaving NATO? That would be difficult, as it would require massive legal changes (I think membership in NATO is part of the constitution, need to read up on it). And it would make little difference. Germany doesn't enjoy its military, doesn't want to be a military power of its own, and doesn't want to waste money on it. It could further reduce its contribution to NATO (to near zero), and replace most of its forces with what amounts to glorified border guards.
Is Germany disgruntled with the CIA and NSA spying? Yes, the governing coalition pays lip service to being upset. While in reality, everyone knows that the US will spy on anything, in particular its allies.
Consider the source: No idea who this Jim Willie person is, but the Examiner is a bunch of wing nuts.
Securing the gas supply: Yes, at the international trade level, Germany needs gas from Russia. But it needs it less than most other central and eastern European countries. I think German gas imports from Russia will be reduced as rapidly as possible, and within a few years may hit zero. Remember, to a large extent Russia needs Europe more than Europe needs Russia: Selling gas is their main source of hard currency, and running a pipeline all the way to China is a giant and slow undertaking (look at a map, and see how big Siberia is).
Also remember that the US also depends crucially on Russia. Russia is a big trading partner for the US, and the #1 item is aerospace. Why? Because the Space Station (technically called "international", but in reality a NASA boondoggle) can only be supplied by Russian rockets. Look at this article some time, for some surprising information on Russia's foreign trade: http://www.zeit.de/wirtschaft/2014-07/r ... te-exporte
Re: Germany Switching Sides ?????
25Warsaw Pact was NATO's counterpoint, when that fell apart an opportunity was missed. Instead a group of neo-cons saw it as great time to push further east. Russia was the main player in the Warsaw Pact the same way the United States is the primary player in NATO.senorgrand wrote:NATO was meant to stand up to Russia. Most of NATO doesn't want to do that anymore.
Europe is addicted to Russian fossil fuels. It's acting like a junky who's surprised their dealer isn't their best friend.
As for fossil fuel dependence, it's a problem many countries have including the United States. Getting out of fossil fuels isn't going to be easy and even when the world shifts away from using it as a fuel it will still be used in many other applications like plastics. It's a critical product and will be in demand long after it's not being used as a fuel source.