Re: Hillary deems "gun safety" a "political necessity" for Democrats

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Yeah, not going to listen to the person who gave us Trump. Her campaign elevated him to give her an easy opponent, and then she managed to lose to her chosen option. I sucked it up and voted for her, even after DNC thoroughly rigged the primary, so don't pull that "you did this" shit. She, her campaign, and the DNC did this. We deserve better.
https://www.salon.com/2016/11/09/the-hi ... -strategy/
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Re: Hillary deems "gun safety" a "political necessity" for Democrats

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CrazyWolf wrote: Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:46 am Yeah, not going to listen to the person who gave us Trump. Her campaign elevated him to give her an easy opponent, and then she managed to lose to her chosen option. I sucked it up and voted for her, even after DNC thoroughly rigged the primary, so don't pull that "you did this" shit. She, her campaign, and the DNC did this. We deserve better.
https://www.salon.com/2016/11/09/the-hi ... -strategy/
I only partly disagree, and partly agree. The Tea Party didn't like what the RNC was doing, pretty much what the DNC is STILL doing. So they changed it. As the Resistance and Indivisible are trying to change it on the left. Totally different politics, but using similar, effective tactics. Yeah, we don't need idiots in knickers and tricorn hats with tea bags hanging from them, but THAT is what we didn't do and, only now, since the election have been trying to do.

What the Tea Party figured out in 2009, and we figured out in 2016, is that the National Party, as much as it doesn't want to, MUST answer to us if we force it to. The "duality" of this is that if we DON'T force our national party to bend to our will, it IS our fault, yours, mine and ours. Because we let them get away with this...mostly. Remember: We DID get rid of Debbie Wasserman-Schultz but we're still losing as Tom Perez is no better--purging the Keith Ellison advocates, and late to every party.

I detest the DNC, the DSCC, and, worst of all, the DCCC.

Yet, despite all that, you held your nose and voted as we HAD to vote. Because as bad and arrogant and elitist as Hillary Clinton is, she would still be infinitely better than this deliberate destroyer of our Democratic Republic. As long as there are sane people with a hint of morality, we have hope. I have almost no hope left. Bill Maher is arguing that even if Trump loses in 2020, he'll claim the election was rigged and seize power, refusing to cede it. Dick Cheney proposed "postponing" (cancelling) the 2004 election. Luckily, even witless GWB wouldn't do that. It took Dubya 6 years to figure out what a poisonous snake Cheney was, and cut him out of all decision-making the last 2 years, and, AFAIK, has barely, if at all, spoken to Cheney in the last 9 years. So even HE, George W. Bush, has at least a shred of the decency we need in our leaders, a shred, clearly, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and most of their staff he finally cleared out, didn't. It's why he refused to pardon Scooter Libby, too, Cheney's boy.

I stand by everything I've said. Vote your conscience in the primaries. Work to change the national party. But in the General Election, the most important principle, I believe, is we MUST get rid of the fascist bigots before it's too late...and we no longer have the right to vote them out.
"Even if the bee could explain to the fly why pollen is better than shit, the fly could never understand."

Re: Hillary deems "gun safety" a "political necessity" for Democrats

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SubRosa wrote: Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:47 pm YT has good points.

Toes get stepped on.

Maybe watch where you put them...

Politics is a rough dance.
No shit, rough.

This issue is right in the LGC wheelhouse: "gun safety." That means education and marksmanship. That's how we should sell it.

CDFingers
Crazy cat peekin' through a lace bandana
like a one-eyed Cheshire, like a diamond-eyed Jack

Re: Hillary deems "gun safety" a "political necessity" for Democrats

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Eris wrote: Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:54 pm

You're doing a good job of alienating the people who you would like to have on your side. You don't get someone to support you by saying they support dictators.
+1. This was what happened after HRC got her ass handed to her and rather than put the onus on Hillary for not running an effective campaign her supporters chose to blame the rest of us. You win elections on issues not out of fear. When a gun tragedy happens we all like to say, "blame the person, not the gun," so the same should be held true when voting for a candidate -- blame the person running for office rather than blame the voters or lack thereof.

Re: Hillary deems "gun safety" a "political necessity" for Democrats

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Carl_Spackler wrote: Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:36 am
Eris wrote: Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:54 pm

You're doing a good job of alienating the people who you would like to have on your side. You don't get someone to support you by saying they support dictators.
You win elections on issues not out of fear.
Tell that to the tens of millions of Trump voters who are scared shitless that Latinos, Blacks, Asians and Jews are gonna take their jobs, and their kids' places in schools. That us "lib-tards" are gonna force their kids to learn Evil-lution, that Gay's OK, and multiculturalism rather than good ol' Andy Griffith America.
That every "Moo-Slim" wants to cut off their head, make their women wear head scarfs and force us all to live by Sharia Law.

Why the HELL do you think most of those rednecks voted for a man they KNEW was a thief, a cheat, a con-man, a liar, and a rapist? Because he scared the SHIT out of them and told 'em they were "special" and he'd save them!

And we're stuck with him.
"Even if the bee could explain to the fly why pollen is better than shit, the fly could never understand."

Re: Hillary deems "gun safety" a "political necessity" for Democrats

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YankeeTarheel wrote: Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:33 am
Carl_Spackler wrote: Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:36 am
Eris wrote: Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:54 pm

You're doing a good job of alienating the people who you would like to have on your side. You don't get someone to support you by saying they support dictators.
You win elections on issues not out of fear.
Tell that to the tens of millions of Trump voters who are scared shitless that Latinos, Blacks, Asians and Jews are gonna take their jobs, and their kids' places in schools. That us "lib-tards" are gonna force their kids to learn Evil-lution, that Gay's OK, and multiculturalism rather than good ol' Andy Griffith America.
That every "Moo-Slim" wants to cut off their head, make their women wear head scarfs and force us all to live by Sharia Law.

Why the HELL do you think most of those rednecks voted for a man they KNEW was a thief, a cheat, a con-man, a liar, and a rapist? Because he scared the SHIT out of them and told 'em they were "special" and he'd save them!

And we're stuck with him.
that worked for Republicans, it did not work for Dems. Scapegoating wasn't helpful when HRC lost and it's not helpful 2 yrs later. If anything, this type of rhetoric will only further divide voters and ensure that the Dems have no chance in 2020.

Re: Hillary deems "gun safety" a "political necessity" for Democrats

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Carl_Spackler wrote: Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:47 am
YankeeTarheel wrote: Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:33 am
Carl_Spackler wrote: Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:36 am
Eris wrote: Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:54 pm

You're doing a good job of alienating the people who you would like to have on your side. You don't get someone to support you by saying they support dictators.
You win elections on issues not out of fear.
Tell that to the tens of millions of Trump voters who are scared shitless that Latinos, Blacks, Asians and Jews are gonna take their jobs, and their kids' places in schools. That us "lib-tards" are gonna force their kids to learn Evil-lution, that Gay's OK, and multiculturalism rather than good ol' Andy Griffith America.
That every "Moo-Slim" wants to cut off their head, make their women wear head scarfs and force us all to live by Sharia Law.

Why the HELL do you think most of those rednecks voted for a man they KNEW was a thief, a cheat, a con-man, a liar, and a rapist? Because he scared the SHIT out of them and told 'em they were "special" and he'd save them!

And we're stuck with him.
that worked for Republicans, it did not work for Dems. Scapegoating wasn't helpful when HRC lost and it's not helpful 2 yrs later. If anything, this type of rhetoric will only further divide voters and ensure that the Dems have no chance in 2020.
IMHO, Democrats who think that way are short-sighted with tunnel vision--and I'm being nice. I go back to what I said before: When the alligators (Trump-publicans) are trying to rip your ass off, you can't afford to "stand on principle" about refusing to use a shitty gun vs a good one. And getting your nose bent because you don't like "scapegoating" just insures the alligators will destroy you.

And that's how I see it.
"Even if the bee could explain to the fly why pollen is better than shit, the fly could never understand."

Re: Hillary deems "gun safety" a "political necessity" for Democrats

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YankeeTarheel wrote: Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:52 pm
Carl_Spackler wrote: Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:47 am
YankeeTarheel wrote: Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:33 am
Carl_Spackler wrote: Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:36 am

You win elections on issues not out of fear.
Tell that to the tens of millions of Trump voters who are scared shitless that Latinos, Blacks, Asians and Jews are gonna take their jobs, and their kids' places in schools. That us "lib-tards" are gonna force their kids to learn Evil-lution, that Gay's OK, and multiculturalism rather than good ol' Andy Griffith America.
That every "Moo-Slim" wants to cut off their head, make their women wear head scarfs and force us all to live by Sharia Law.

Why the HELL do you think most of those rednecks voted for a man they KNEW was a thief, a cheat, a con-man, a liar, and a rapist? Because he scared the SHIT out of them and told 'em they were "special" and he'd save them!

And we're stuck with him.
that worked for Republicans, it did not work for Dems. Scapegoating wasn't helpful when HRC lost and it's not helpful 2 yrs later. If anything, this type of rhetoric will only further divide voters and ensure that the Dems have no chance in 2020.
IMHO, Democrats who think that way are short-sighted with tunnel vision--and I'm being nice. I go back to what I said before: When the alligators (Trump-publicans) are trying to rip your ass off, you can't afford to "stand on principle" about refusing to use a shitty gun vs a good one. And getting your nose bent because you don't like "scapegoating" just insures the alligators will destroy you.

And that's how I see it.
I'm not the one getting my nose bent as you put it. You're entitled to your opinion but it is just that, an opinion. Instead of focusing all of your vitriol on those of us that didn't vote for HRC, try asking voters why they didn't vote for her and then ask yourself what you can do to get people to change their minds. Choosing a politician to vote for in an election is like trying to pick between orange sherbert, vanilla and that random flavor that sounds interesting. Sometimes we want something different even if everyone around you is shouting at you to pick the damned vanilla. Telling me (or anyone else) that we're on the wrong side of history because the Orange Menace was elected is your hangup, not mine. This outcome needed to happen. The Dems became too complacent and thought they had a sure thing and it bit them in the @ss. Change the message (or messenger) and maybe we'll come around in 2020.

Re: Hillary deems "gun safety" a "political necessity" for Democrats

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Lots of would be Democratic voters want a populist, like Bernie, but the DNC keeps resisting it. I think the Democrats are eventually going to have their own Tea Party moment when a large group of leftist candidates swarm into office and begin taking over the party from within. I was hoping the Bernie supporters would do this, but it looks like Our Revolution and similar groups are fizzling.

I get emails from Our Revolution, and a couple of independent leftist candidates I have supported, but I'll admit that I've done nothing in terms of volunteering or going to meetings, so I guess I'm part of the problem.
106+ recreational uses of firearms
1 defensive use
0 people injured
0 people killed

Re: Hillary deems "gun safety" a "political necessity" for Democrats

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An interesting article from Huffington Post.
The Republican Party is on a path of self-destruction, except they have the Democratic Party and Hollywood giving them life support.

Here’s a tip, if you want to understand how and why Donald Trump won the 2016 election, go to some country music concerts and pay attention to what you see. In my non-D.C. life, I have been fortunate enough to turn my hobby of being a country music fan into my job through a media platform I started a few years ago. Through that, I’ve spent 14 of the past 23 days embedded with tens-of-thousands of country music fans from across the country at shows and festivals in Maryland, Virginia and Nashville. They weren’t racists. They weren’t stupid. They weren’t bad people lacking a moral compass. But you know what? There is zero effort from the Democratic Party to engage these people in any meaningful way.

You cannot win elections if you aren’t willing to thoughtfully engage people in a genuine attempt to win hearts and minds.

Re: Hillary deems "gun safety" a "political necessity" for Democrats

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Carl_Spackler wrote:An interesting article from Huffington Post.
The Republican Party is on a path of self-destruction, except they have the Democratic Party and Hollywood giving them life support.

Here’s a tip, if you want to understand how and why Donald Trump won the 2016 election, go to some country music concerts and pay attention to what you see. In my non-D.C. life, I have been fortunate enough to turn my hobby of being a country music fan into my job through a media platform I started a few years ago. Through that, I’ve spent 14 of the past 23 days embedded with tens-of-thousands of country music fans from across the country at shows and festivals in Maryland, Virginia and Nashville. They weren’t racists. They weren’t stupid. They weren’t bad people lacking a moral compass. But you know what? There is zero effort from the Democratic Party to engage these people in any meaningful way.

You cannot win elections if you aren’t willing to thoughtfully engage people in a genuine attempt to win hearts and minds.
Yeah... you're a stupid, uneducated, misogynistic, islamophobic, transphobic, homophobic, racist, nationalistic, white supremacist, bottom class idiot who doesn't even deserve to be called human. And your religion is stupid, for stupid people, which is you. Vote for me..!

Yeah, I'm sure that will pull them in...










"In every generation there are those who want to rule well - but they mean to rule. They promise to be good masters - but they mean to be masters." — Daniel Webster

Re: Hillary deems

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rascally wrote: Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:16 pm
Carl_Spackler wrote:An interesting article from Huffington Post.
The Republican Party is on a path of self-destruction, except they have the Democratic Party and Hollywood giving them life support.

Here’s a tip, if you want to understand how and why Donald Trump won the 2016 election, go to some country music concerts and pay attention to what you see. In my non-D.C. life, I have been fortunate enough to turn my hobby of being a country music fan into my job through a media platform I started a few years ago. Through that, I’ve spent 14 of the past 23 days embedded with tens-of-thousands of country music fans from across the country at shows and festivals in Maryland, Virginia and Nashville. They weren’t racists. They weren’t stupid. They weren’t bad people lacking a moral compass. But you know what? There is zero effort from the Democratic Party to engage these people in any meaningful way.

You cannot win elections if you aren’t willing to thoughtfully engage people in a genuine attempt to win hearts and minds.
Yeah... you're a stupid, uneducated, misogynistic, islamophobic, transphobic, homophobic, racist, nationalistic, white supremacist, bottom class idiot who doesn't even deserve to be called human. And your religion is stupid, for stupid people, which is you. Vote for me..!

Yeah, I'm sure that will pull them in...
They have ALREADY shown they'll vote for a monster and swallow every one of his shit-burger lies like it was prime rib steak.

It's a numbers game and when Democrats realize NONE of them will vote for a Democrat, who gives a shit if they are offended? They call us "Libtards", "Snowflakes", "Globalists", "F*gg*ts", Democrats are "The Vag Party", Clinton is the "Hildabeast", Obama is "Obummer" (or "N***** Obummer"), Mrs. Obama is "Moo-chelle". And that's only SOME of the things they call us and anyone who is totally NOT a thrall and ditto-head for Trump. So why do you care about offending them? THEY don't care about offending your sensibilities or mine!

So it's a total waste of time to try to appeal to them. Instead, the object should be to get Democrats and Democratic-Adjacent to get off their asses, register, and VOTE! Because no matter WHAT Trump&Co say, no matter how much they've gerry-mandered the system, if the 90 million Americans who were eligible to vote but didn't get off their asses, EVERYTHING can be changed, no matter how much they chant "Lock Her Up" and "Jews will not replace us!" You know the "lots of fine people on both sides."

And I'm done now.
"Even if the bee could explain to the fly why pollen is better than shit, the fly could never understand."

Re: Hillary deems "gun safety" a "political necessity" for Democrats

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AZAndy wrote:
VodoundaVinci wrote: Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:44 am After the Democrats literally shoved her up our asses the last time (and they haven't quit screwing with the election process yet!!) and shot the popular candidate down in flames I have no party to vote for now. I don't know what to do if Bernie doesn't grow a pair and run Independent in 2020.

I can't believe the Democrats are this arrogant.

VooDoo
Word UP.
Truth!!

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

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Re: Hillary deems "gun safety" a "political necessity" for Democrats

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According to most exit polls after 2016 the number one issue was foreign trade bills. Saying people voted for trump because they are racist is pretty stupid when the same people voted for Obama twice.

They also voted overwhelmingly for Bernie in the primary. Since he was elected trump seemingly has followed through with his campaign promise of stopping TPP, his tariffs on China although disastrous to family farmers has steel mills firing up that had been put out of business after 2014.

If the dems don't wake up they will be trumped again, starting this year in Nov.

Re: Hillary deems "gun safety" a "political necessity" for Democrats

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I started voting in 1980 and that Election was the first and last time there was a candidate, Democrat or Republican whom I had any interest in voting for...it was downhill after that.
back in 2016 I thought Bernie might have a chance, got to cast my vote in the WI Primary, but HRC & CO saw to it he didn't make it to the DNC through hook and crook.
The Democrats haven't woken up and it's clear from the last 2 Elections they proved they are just as corrupt as the Republicans.

I hope to god "Hildabeast" doesn't run again in 2020...can the Democrats be that stupid to hitch their wagon to her again?
Neither party cares and they'll only "cater" to whichever demo-graph they think will get them the most votes, while ignoring or just paying lip-service to others.
Both parties are bought and paid for by the 1%ers, Big Business, Big Pharm and big Banks...I don't think any of them have taken Campaign Matching Funds in over a decade when in 2008 several candidates went it on their own dime.
The Bush Administration demonstrated they could skirt, bend, and break the process however it suited them, and get laws passed without that pesky and bothersome Democratic Process or Constitutional Law getting in the way.
Trump will literally get away with murder, nothing will happen to him, no impeachment or otherwise.
Look at his track record starting just before he won the Election, and recall some of the heinous, horrible, contemptible and completely repulsive things he's said and done.

As for HRC - Third times charm? No...strike three your out!
I think I'll reuse an old Campaign chant in 2020...and it makes me sick because that's where we're headed.

4 more years!
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, make violent revolution inevitable.

Re: Hillary deems "gun safety" a "political necessity" for Democrats

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The last time a general election losing candidate won the nomination again was in 1968, when Nixon was nominated a 2nd time following his loss in 1960. 50 years ago.
in 1956, Adlai Stevenson was renominated, and lost--again!
I don't know how many time Thomas Dewey was nominated.
"Even if the bee could explain to the fly why pollen is better than shit, the fly could never understand."

Re: Hillary deems

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YankeeTarheel wrote: Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:38 pm
They have ALREADY shown they'll vote for a monster and swallow every one of his shit-burger lies like it was prime rib steak.

It's a numbers game and when Democrats realize NONE of them will vote for a Democrat, who gives a shit if they are offended? They call us "Libtards", "Snowflakes", "Globalists", "F*gg*ts", Democrats are "The Vag Party", Clinton is the "Hildabeast", Obama is "Obummer" (or "N***** Obummer"), Mrs. Obama is "Moo-chelle". And that's only SOME of the things they call us and anyone who is totally NOT a thrall and ditto-head for Trump. So why do you care about offending them? THEY don't care about offending your sensibilities or mine!

So it's a total waste of time to try to appeal to them. Instead, the object should be to get Democrats and Democratic-Adjacent to get off their asses, register, and VOTE! Because no matter WHAT Trump&Co say, no matter how much they've gerry-mandered the system, if the 90 million Americans who were eligible to vote but didn't get off their asses, EVERYTHING can be changed, no matter how much they chant "Lock Her Up" and "Jews will not replace us!" You know the "lots of fine people on both sides."

And I'm done now.
So let's tar and feather those who didn't vote for HRC? No thanks. Let me remind you that HRC is a gun control advocate, which was the point of the OP linking the article in this thread. You're suggesting that we should've held our noses and voted for the person that wanted to further restrict gun rights. You know this is a pro-gun forum, right?

Re: Hillary deems "gun safety" a "political necessity" for Democrats

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DispositionMatrix wrote: Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:08 pm Hillary Clinton, in SF visit, calls gun safety ‘a political necessity’
Speaking to an audience of gun control advocates in San Francisco, Hillary Clinton said Thursday that this year’s voting for members of Congress should “finally be the election that turns the tide against the gun lobby.”

“The vast majority of Americans are on our side,” the former secretary of state and Democratic presidential candidate said at a Hyatt Regency dinner gathering of the Giffords Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence, which presented her with its Courageous Leadership Award. “So we are winning the debate. But now we’ve got to get everyone to vote on this issue.”

“It will not be easy,” she said, recalling the National Rifle Association’s multimillion-dollar participation in the 2016 presidential campaign.
To further comment on this article, I guess i'm tired of the same arguments being made against the object rather than the person wielding the object. Guns make it easier to kill without question, but why don't people place the same emphasis against other objects used in homicides, like knives or baseball bats? I do realize that proportianally guns are responsible for more deaths in this country as found here but whenever crimes are committed using anything other than firearms the public blames the person rather than the object. Restricting gun rights won't cause homicides to go down imo. If someone wants to kill you they will find a way to do it regardless.

Re: Hillary deems "gun safety" a "political necessity" for Democrats

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I don't think that the gun control issue is as important as it's made out to be. I think it can affect an election only if that is the only difference between the two candidates.

In other words when people have a strong attachment to the shooting sports they will vote for the repug even though he will screw them over because at least he will still have his guns. A neoliberal Dem will screw him over the same but wants to take his guns to boot.

When there is very little difference between the two candidates certain vanity issues will make a difference.

Re: Hillary deems "gun safety" a "political necessity" for Democrats

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CDFingers wrote: Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:18 am I'll write it again: "gun safety" falls right in our wheel house, because that means "education and marksmanship."
That's great, but the urban Ds, by and large, don't want that kind of gun safety. They want eliminationism and aversion therapy. They will NOT agree to play our game, because on their turf, we're a small enough faction that we don't count.
IMR4227: Zero to 900 in 0.001 seconds

I'm only killing paper and my self-esteem.

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Re: Hillary deems "gun safety" a "political necessity" for Democrats

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Buck13 wrote: Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:15 pm
CDFingers wrote: Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:18 am I'll write it again: "gun safety" falls right in our wheel house, because that means "education and marksmanship."
That's great, but the urban Ds, by and large, don't want that kind of gun safety. They want eliminationism and aversion therapy. They will NOT agree to play our game, because on their turf, we're a small enough faction that we don't count.
Problem is that regardless of what we do there just are not enough of us to affect anything beyond the margins at least at this point. What they should fear is that we exist and our membership numbers are growing. The question is if we can grow sustainability and quickly so we can start to influence the political conversation. We are at this point somewhat of a curiosity but the moment our membership grows the neoliberal faction of the party will attack us. I am optimistic that we will become a significant constituency.

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