Cheap reflex sigts

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So yeah, I wound up coming home with TWO plinkin' pistols this weekend from the pawn shop rounds... a Beretta NEOS and a Smith & Wesson 22A. Both feature full Weaver rails and iron sights that could best be described as an afterthought.

So, I was thinking about a cheap red-dot reflex fancypants gizmo or whathaveyou, but then realized I know absolutely nothing about them. Hell, I hardly have ever used a SCOPE before, much less something like this.

Purposes are simply fun-time plinking and target shooting. (assuming I have the .22LR to use), and since I got the pistols on the cheap, I don't want to spend big dollars on a sight system either.

Anything wrong with something like this:
http://www.amazon.com/Aim-Sports-Sight- ... flex+sight

or this:
http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shooting ... t104526180


How about a good primer site on the tech and styles? I'm starting from scratch here, got quite a learning curve.
Brian in StL

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Re: Cheap reflex sigts

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Haven't used those specific ones, but I have used various red dots from about $30 up to $500. Generally the cheaper ones have larger dots, meaning it won't be quite as accurate (4 or 8 MOA instead of 1 MOA). It all depends on what you're looking to do. For inexpensive plinking, either one would probably do the trick. Will they be as long lasting on the battery or as rugged as an aimpoint or EO Tech? Nah. But for a 22, do you really want to spend that much money on one? One concern I've got with the Amazon unit is that it doesn't indicate whether or not it's parallax free. If it's not, then your head will need to be in the same shooting position every time- doable with a rifle cheek weld, less so on a pistol. I'd probably go with the one from Cabela's unless you can verify that on the other unit.
“Do the best you can until you know better. Then when you know better, do better.”
- Maya Angelou

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Re: Cheap reflex sigts

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shinzen wrote:Haven't used those specific ones, ... I'd probably go with the one from Cabela's unless you can verify that on the other unit.
Those were just the first 2 inexpensive examples I found and threw them in here as an example.. I'm open to other suggestions.

What is this parallax of which you speak? The Green Lantern villain?
Brian in StL

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Re: Cheap reflex sigts

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:roflmao: Sorry, should have been more clear.
Parallax is a displacement or difference in the apparent position of an object viewed along two different lines of sight, and is measured by the angle or semi-angle of inclination between those two lines.[1][2] The term is derived from the Greek παράλλαξις (parallaxis), meaning "alteration". Nearby objects have a larger parallax than more distant objects when observed from different positions, so parallax can be used to determine distances.

A simple everyday example of parallax can be seen in the dashboard of motor vehicles that use a needle-style speedometer gauge. When viewed from directly in front, the speed may show exactly 60; but when viewed from the passenger seat the needle may appear to show a slightly different speed, due to the angle of viewing.
Source Wikipedia

When applied to optics on a gun, it is that the dot will be in a different spot on the target, depending on your viewing angle. So if you are slightly off from the prior shot, even with the dot looking like it's in the same place to you, the shot winds up being on a different part of the paper.

Does that help clear it up, or did I just make some mud?
“Do the best you can until you know better. Then when you know better, do better.”
- Maya Angelou

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Re: Cheap reflex sigts

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shinzen wrote::roflmao: Sorry, should have been more clear.
When applied to optics on a gun, it is that the dot will be in a different spot on the target, depending on your viewing angle. So if you are slightly off from the prior shot, even with the dot looking like it's in the same place to you, the shot winds up being on a different part of the paper.

Does that help clear it up, or did I just make some mud?
Well, yes but now I'm confused for a different reason... I thought - in my limited knowledge - that the whole reason for the "red dot" gizmo was that the "dot" was only visible when viewed just right. This makes it sound like some of them have a dot that can be seen willy-nilly.. so how does that even work as a sight at all? It defeats the whole purpose doesn't it?

:hmmm:
Brian in StL

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Re: Cheap reflex sigts

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I have had this one for some time on a 10/22


http://www.amazon.com/Truglo-Red-Dot-Tr ... ds=truglo/

It's good but has parallax out to 30 yards.

I just got this one and it has a doublet lens that is supposed to be "parallax free." My limited tests on the bench indicate that it is better than the TruGlo.


http://www.amazon.com/Sightmark-Ultra-S ... =sightmark

Both are plenty fun. The sightmark has clearer optics and a smaller dot. I can put ten rounds into three quarters of an inch at 25 yards with the TruGlo even with my imperfect vision Have not shot the other yet.
Last edited by Bucolic on Tue Feb 04, 2014 6:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cheap reflex sigts

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I don't want to scare you off of them- it won't be off much, and a parallax free sight should be fine. (Although no red dot is 100% parallax free, just pretty close to it) They make for nice easy target acquisition for sure.

The red dot can be viewed from almost any angle (as long as you can see through it) and will be close to the point of aim.
“Do the best you can until you know better. Then when you know better, do better.”
- Maya Angelou

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Re: Cheap reflex sigts

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shinzen wrote:I don't want to scare you off of them- it won't be off much, and a parallax free sight should be fine. (Although no red dot is 100% parallax free, just pretty close to it) They make for nice easy target acquisition for sure.

The red dot can be viewed from almost any angle (as long as you can see through it) and will be close to the point of aim.
I guess I'm still confused here.. if the reticle moves all over the place as you move your head (but the gun & sight stays steady), then how does this function as a "sight" at all? I mean, maybe I could see it working on a rifle where you maintain a rather consistent check-weld, but with a pistol that seems rather useless.
Brian in StL

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Re: Cheap reflex sigts

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shinzen wrote:Its not all over the place. Just a little. The is in the same place, your perception of it will shift a bit.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
well, the one I'm holding in my hands right now will move the reticle clear from one edge of the glass to the other as I move my head and keep the sight steady..

EDIT - maybe it's something I just have to try with actual live fire... but just holding it here, I can't wrap my brain around how this will actually work as a sight.
Last edited by stl303 on Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Brian in StL

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Re: Cheap reflex sigts

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Sure. That doesn't mean the point of impact will change. Look at where the dot lines up on the target. Where it appears inside the glass is irrelevant

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
“Do the best you can until you know better. Then when you know better, do better.”
- Maya Angelou

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Re: Cheap reflex sigts

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shinzen wrote:Sure. That doesn't mean the point of impact will change. Look at where the dot lines up on the target. Where it appears inside the glass is irrelevant

..
That's what a red dot does. Don't have to have the perfect sight window. Just place the dot on the target and have at.
Well that I get - if movement of the sight/gun were the only factor.. but if I have it lined up at point A, and then move just my head and now the reticle is at point B, I'm sure as shit not aimed at B now, right? so just following the reticle is worthless.
Brian in StL

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Re: Cheap reflex sigts

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shinzen wrote:Sure. That doesn't mean the point of impact will change. Look at where the dot lines up on the target. Where it appears inside the glass is irrelevant

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
I've only really found this true with an EOTech. I had a much cheaper Aim Sports redot that while awesome, did move poi when you moved your head.
All problems can be solved with a copious amount of high explosives.

Re: Cheap reflex sigts

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M4Builder wrote:
shinzen wrote:Sure. That doesn't mean the point of impact will change. Look at where the dot lines up on the target. Where it appears inside the glass is irrelevant

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
I've only really found this true with an EOTech. I had a much cheaper Aim Sports redot that while awesome, did move poi when you moved your head.
Also true on my aimpoint, but not on my cheapie BSA, but it wasn't off by a ton. That should be what the parallax free sights do from what I understand.
“Do the best you can until you know better. Then when you know better, do better.”
- Maya Angelou

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Re: Cheap reflex sigts

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My understanding is that most of the cheap reflex sights use singlet lenses and are prone to parallax for nearby targets induced by spherical aberration. Some of the "parallax corrected" sights use doublet lenses that reduce the aberration.

Aren't the Eotech and AimPoints true holographic sights? The cheap ones are not. A for a holographic sight, the maximum parallax error is the size of the window, or so it would seem intuitively.

Edit: Thinking about this, the issue is that either a holographic or a reflex sight puts the image of the dot at some distance from the sight. In the case of the reflex sight that collimates the light from the reticle, this image is at infinity. This introduces parallax for nearby targets -- think about it. Putting the image at a finite distance, a typical target distance, reduces it. There is NO parallax for a target at the same distance as the distance to the image of the dot.
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