The Liberal Gun Club Forum

[Not really sure where this sort of thing fits within our category system, and anything that goes into GD gets quickly burried.]

So tonight I came to a realization about why revolvers have never really garnered my affections. If I hold my hand in a loose fist naturally and draw an imaginary line across my first two knuckles, that line would be almost exactly perpendicular to my wrist and forearm. If I insert most semi-autos into that fist those knuckles don't change their angle much, if at all. In the case of my CZ82 and my PF9, with their grip angles being almost identical, any change in the angle of my hand in a vertical plane is imperceptible as I grip the pistol with the sights on target. This means that my hand is still being held in a natural position, at a natural angle; the same angle that my hand will naturally revert to when at rest.

Now, contrast that with gripping a revolver, at least for me. If I grip a DA revolver using only my thumb and middle finger, and hold my hand in the position described above, the bore is roughly 30* high from my imaginary (sighting down extented pointer finger) POA. Meaning that in order for me to put the sights on target, I have to effectively aim my shooting hand down ~30*.

Anyway, food for thought. I know those of you who are Devotes of The Cylinder are likely to stay that way, but I've seen some befuddlement when some of us express our view that while the relics have their place (in museums...), that they are not the be all, end all IMnsHO. I actually feel similarly about the old rotary



PS: As I was typing this I realized tht the 30-45 degrees low hold in the wrist is pretty standard when gripping a sword with thumb and index finger, which I've never had any problems with. Either way, I just don't find the old-style rotary type handguns to be as comfortable in my hand as an auto. Rotary phones are pretty cool too, and I can understand why someone would collect them, but they are not my first choice when I need a phone anymore. :ducking for cover:



PPS: And yes, I felt this way before the broken wrist, and the apparent tendonitis.

What size are your hands? Big? Small?

Current stock grips on double actions do the same for me. The correct grip for my hand makes holding completely natural.

I usually end up wearing L sized gloves, but my hands aren't monstrous.

Interesting observation about the effective grip angle, Amir. I shoot both semi-autos and revolvers, with any revolver getting a new grip, which helps. The two things I find so different about revolvers are a higher bore axis and the trigger. Revolvers ride high in the hand thus a different balance to the weapon.

DA revolver triggers vary of course from mfg'er to mfg'er, but they are generally long with appropriately long resets. Smiths have a very nice trigger compared to other revolvers I've tried. And in fact, the PF9's trigger reminds me quite a bit of a revolver: long pull, long reset. Very different triggers compared to the striker-fired semis.

I love them all. I adapt. I overcome.

+1) Absofuckinglutely!
2) I think you're right.
3) who cares?
4) I think you're wrong.
5) You be Illin'!


I've put over 1k rds through mine, and it's been dry fired (using snap caps) double, maybe triple that number of times easily. Quite smooth these days, and still only ~5lbs but with about 3/4" or so of travel in the trigger. Very reminiscent of the S&W I grew up with, but it's less than 9/10" thick, and weighs about 1/3 loaded of what my Pop's M10 snubby weighs empty. Oh, and it's got 2 more rounds. and it's comfortable. Did I mention .88" thick with 8rds 9mm at right about a pound? Dropped into a decent IWB I have only minimal trouble concealing in a t-shirt and shorts; it just disappears with no unsightly lumps or bulges. Any trouble I do have is due to short shirts. If I use the IWB holster that Irishman made for me for small of the back carry, I don't even have to let my belt out a single notch. There's a slight gap where my belt line crosses my spine, and that little pistol just drops right in there quite comfortably.

And therein lies the reason why revolvers are ergonomically superior: infinitely customizable grip sizes and shapes.

The modern* autoloading pistol grip, serving primarily as a magazine well, is inherently compromised as a handhold, particularly in the case of those double stack abominations. Yeah, OK, after 100 years, a few manufacturers figured out how to add or subtract a fraction of an inch with interchangeable plastic bitsies. Actually, my SP2022 (with the small girly hands backstrap) is pretty comfortable, as far as holding a box of ammo goes. And some single stack autos approach sweetness. But revolvers are still the best.

Now that that that's off my chest, I'm suddenly curious to find an old rotary phone and see if it will work with my digital cable phone service.

*Broomhandle Mausers excepted.

Personally, autos point better for me than pistols. I can blame tha on the radial break I suffered in my strong wrist a few years back. Before that I had no issues with either.

I still prefer long arms.

Don't say that, it's only been 5wks for my Ulnar.

My injury healed before I could get it really looked at. Your milage should vary greatly.

It should

My 1910 phone works with magic jack. Just can't dial out, but it rings and you can talk on it.
I turned off the electronic ringers on the other phones so there is an actual bell that rings.
Quite cool.

THREAD HIJACK
If you plugged your existing POTS (Plain Ol' Telephone Service) Touch Tone desk sets into your new system, an otherwise working rotary phone will function as an extension - you'll be able to talk and listen. However, you will not be able to dial with it as your new system uses tone only and doesn't recognize pulse dialing.

Digital phones will use the top RJ45 Ethernet plug like a computer, POTS phones will use the bottom RJ11/14 plug.



Note also that the old electro-mechanical ringers draw quite a bit more current than modern electronic ones. You might want to disconnect it.

SwampGrouch
Member, TCI

Thread further jacked (jack, get it?)

Now I'ma have to find an old rotary phone and hack it to produce DTMF. A counter, some memory, and an encoder chip should do it. Or I could do it all in microprocessor.

Ooooo!!! Whatcha got?

Trying to get this back on track (futile, I know) the neat revolver trick is the number of ways the grips can be modified. First is just being aware revovlers and autos hold differently, and auto users tend to hold too high on smooth grips (and makes the barrel climb). An auto has a natural hand stop at the beavertail on the grip, necessary to avoid slide bite. A similar thing has been tried on revolvers, but in the end discarded as not necessary to the function of the gun. However revolvers have had grips with finger groves available since for freaking ever..

I have a 6" SS L frame and a 2½" Scandium L frame and an LCR. They all have Hogue grips - the 2 L frames have square butt conversion grips and the LCR comes with a Hogue compact. They all point the same. This despite the huge differences in weight, length and balance. The 2½" L frame came with typical compact S&W grips, great for concealment but I immediately had the same issue you do - that is my hand rode too far up on the grip if I wasn't careful. The Hogue grip fixed that permanently.

Very similar is a S&W J frame I have with a S&W knock off of a compact Hogue on it - finger grooves also.

Another old and tried and true item is the Tyler T-grip. These also put the natural hold farther down on the grip. They also sell trigger shoes, which help stabilize a long DA pull.

BK Grips also makes Tyler-type grips for revolvers. They came in handy on my dear departed Model 12. Being 2mm thinner than other K-frames, it was going to be a tough fit for neoprene grips. That turned out to be a blessing in disguise as the 12 still had the vintage "diamond" grips. My buddy who picked up the revolver from me loved the way the grips felt. So did I. I was once hesitant about Tyler grips (looks), but no more, especially on those vintage S&W's.

http://bkgrips.com/