Re: More details of Fast and Furious

2
Not a fan of Holder and the ATF but you have to consider the source... The Washington Times? Kind of like saying "Fox News reports...."

Consider that Fortune published the story that Fast & Furious didn't even happen as has been portrayed.
Anyone who uses the terms 'irregardless', 'all of the sudden', or 'a whole nother' shall be sentenced to a work camp - Stewie Griffith

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Re: More details of Fast and Furious

3
Caliman73 wrote:
Not a fan of Holder and the ATF but you have to consider the source... The Washington Times? Kind of like saying "Fox News reports...."

Consider that Fortune published the story that Fast & Furious didn't even happen as has been portrayed.
True. Honestly, I don't know if we will ever know the truth other than the standard: the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
"The waves which dash on the shore are, one by one, broken; but yet the ocean conquers nevertheless."
- Lord Byron

Re: More details of Fast and Furious

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Whether or not you support the ATF's gunwalking program, the reason given by the ATF for denying whisteblower John Dodson's request to publish his manuscript is ridiculous.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/175344342/Dod ... t-Response
sbɐɯ ʎʇıɔɐdɐɔ pɹɐpuɐʇs ɟo ןןnɟ ǝɟɐs
ɯɯ6 bdd ɹǝɥʇןɐʍ
13ʞ
"ǝuıqɹɐɔ 1ɐ4ɯ" dɯɐʇsןןoɹ --- ɯoɔos0269ǝן ʇןoɔ
"ǝuıqɹɐɔ ʇuǝɯǝɔɹoɟuǝ ʍɐן sʇןoɔ" dɯɐʇsןןoɹ --- 0269ǝן ʇןoɔ
(béɟ) 59-pɯɐ

Re: More details of Fast and Furious

5
Caliman73 wrote:
Not a fan of Holder and the ATF but you have to consider the source... The Washington Times? Kind of like saying "Fox News reports...."

Consider that Fortune published the story that Fast & Furious didn't even happen as has been portrayed.
It's not about who's right, it's about what's right, even if you don't personally like the source.
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Re: More details of Fast and Furious

6
"Gunwalking", as the tactic was originally termed by Bush's ATF, began to be used in 2006 in a series of operations, three years prior to the largest gunwalking op, Fast and Furious. So Fast and Furious was an inheritance of sorts.

The ATF's often been out of control, going back to Waco. The Feds could save some money and spare themselves future headaches if they simply did away with it and absorbed those cowboys into the FBI, imho.
"Only voluntary, inspired self-restraint can raise man above the world stream of materialism. Our lives will have to change if we want to save life from self-destruction." ~ Alexander Solzhenitzyn

Re: More details of Fast and Furious

7
OldScratch wrote:"Gunwalking", as the tactic was originally termed by Bush's ATF, began to be used in 2006 in a series of operations, three years prior to the largest gunwalking op, Fast and Furious. So Fast and Furious was an inheritance of sorts.

The ATF's often been out of control, going back to Waco. The Feds could save some money and spare themselves future headaches if they simply did away with it and absorbed those cowboys into the FBI, imho.
The FBI has enough problems without dissolving the ATF into it. This is the kind of thing we get for having a massive federal law enforcement bureaucracy.
sbɐɯ ʎʇıɔɐdɐɔ pɹɐpuɐʇs ɟo ןןnɟ ǝɟɐs
ɯɯ6 bdd ɹǝɥʇןɐʍ
13ʞ
"ǝuıqɹɐɔ 1ɐ4ɯ" dɯɐʇsןןoɹ --- ɯoɔos0269ǝן ʇןoɔ
"ǝuıqɹɐɔ ʇuǝɯǝɔɹoɟuǝ ʍɐן sʇןoɔ" dɯɐʇsןןoɹ --- 0269ǝן ʇןoɔ
(béɟ) 59-pɯɐ

Re: More details of Fast and Furious

8
The lawyers are still arguing over which doc are going to be part of the case.
http://www.nationallawjournal.com/legal ... 0704143312
Much of Thursday’s hearing was a clash over which records are part of the court case. DOJ contends that certain “law enforcement” documents related to Operation Fast and Furious fall outside the scope of the lawsuit. Kathleen Hartnett, DOJ Civil Division deputy assistant attorney general, said that House Republicans had agreed to narrow the oversight committee’s subpoena leading up to the lawsuit.

Kerry Kircher, general counsel to the House of Representatives, disputed that. Jackson also seemed unconvinced that there was proof of a “meeting of the minds.” She said the documents seemed to show that House Republicans offered to narrow the subpoena if DOJ made certain concessions, and that DOJ came back with counteroffers, but nothing was formally agreed upon. She said she would rule on the issue at a later time.

Other points of contention included whether DOJ could withhold records for reasons other than the deliberative-process privilege—referred to during the hearing as “common law” privileges such as privacy, attorney-client privilege and law enforcement concerns—and who should decide if certain records were unrelated to the subpoena.
sbɐɯ ʎʇıɔɐdɐɔ pɹɐpuɐʇs ɟo ןןnɟ ǝɟɐs
ɯɯ6 bdd ɹǝɥʇןɐʍ
13ʞ
"ǝuıqɹɐɔ 1ɐ4ɯ" dɯɐʇsןןoɹ --- ɯoɔos0269ǝן ʇןoɔ
"ǝuıqɹɐɔ ʇuǝɯǝɔɹoɟuǝ ʍɐן sʇןoɔ" dɯɐʇsןןoɹ --- 0269ǝן ʇןoɔ
(béɟ) 59-pɯɐ

Re: More details of Fast and Furious

9
The real "targets" in F & F were apparently
Eduardo and Jesus A. Miramontes-Varela

http://narcosphere.narconews.com/notebo ... us-scandal
A top enforcer for the Sinaloa drug organization and his army of assassins in Juarez, Mexico — responsible for a surge in violence in that city that has led to thousands of deaths in recent years — may well have been supplied hundreds, if not thousands, of weapons through an ill-fated US law-enforcement operation known as Fast and Furious.

That enforcer, Jose Antonio Torres Marrufo, was arrested by Mexican police in February this year and is now the subject of a 14-count US indictment unsealed in late April in San Antonio, Texas, that also charges the alleged leaders of the Sinaloa organization (Joaquin Guzman Loera, or El Chapo; and Ismael Zambada Garcia, or El Mayo) and 21 other individuals with engaging in drug and firearms trafficking, money laundering and murder in “furtherance of a criminal enterprise.
Compensating for my tiny arsenal since Katrina

Re: More details of Fast and Furious

11
Hazborgufen wrote:More speculation recently indicating that the guns used in the attacks in Curtis Culwell Center attack (where they had comics of Muhammad) were part the Fast and Furious operation.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-gar ... tml#page=1

I'm amazed how far this thing goes. How was this ever seen as a good idea?

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-gar ... story.html
And then maybe it wasn't, says the same paper.
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Puffing up is no substitute for smarts but it's a common home remedy

Re: More details of Fast and Furious

12
"Judge rejects Obama's executive privilege over 'Fast & Furious' docs"
http://www.tucsonsentinel.com/local/rep ... ious-docs/
A federal judge in Washington D.C. ruled Tuesday that President Barack Obama cannot claim executive privilege to withhold from Congress hundreds of documents concerning Operation Fast and Furious, a botched federal investigation that allowed the trafficking of hundreds of firearms into Mexico by illegal straw purchasers.

In a careful 32-page ruling, U.S. District Court Judge Amy Berman Jackson ruled that because the U.S. Department of Justice had previously released some of the documents demanded by Congress as part of an Inspector General's report released in 2012, the White House could not then claim privilege over the documents from a congressional subpoena.

"There is no need to balance the need against the impact that the revelation of any record could have on candor in future executive decision making, since any harm that might flow from the public revelation of the deliberations at issue here has already been self-inflicted," Jackson wrote. "The Department itself has already publicly revealed the sum and substance of the very material it is now seeking to withhold. Since any harm that would flow from the disclosures sought here would be merely incremental, the records must be produced."
I could not bring myself to start yet another Fast & Furious thread for an update specifically related to the lawsuit.

Chicago Tribune: Garland, Texas shooter had Fast&Furious gun
Fortune Magazine: The truth about the Fast and Furious scand
Fast & Furious was a pussy operation
Contempt plans for Holder of Fast and Furious
The Young Turks on "Fast & Furious"
Nyt: fast and furious shows need for a reformed atf
sbɐɯ ʎʇıɔɐdɐɔ pɹɐpuɐʇs ɟo ןןnɟ ǝɟɐs
ɯɯ6 bdd ɹǝɥʇןɐʍ
13ʞ
"ǝuıqɹɐɔ 1ɐ4ɯ" dɯɐʇsןןoɹ --- ɯoɔos0269ǝן ʇןoɔ
"ǝuıqɹɐɔ ʇuǝɯǝɔɹoɟuǝ ʍɐן sʇןoɔ" dɯɐʇsןןoɹ --- 0269ǝן ʇןoɔ
(béɟ) 59-pɯɐ

Re: More details of Fast and Furious

13
OldScratch wrote:"Gunwalking", as the tactic was originally termed by Bush's ATF, began to be used in 2006 in a series of operations, three years prior to the largest gunwalking op, Fast and Furious. So Fast and Furious was an inheritance of sorts.

The ATF's often been out of control, going back to Waco. The Feds could save some money and spare themselves future headaches if they simply did away with it and absorbed those cowboys into the FBI, imho.
FBI doesn't want them cause they have their own set of Cowboys.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

Re: More details of Fast and Furious

14
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/poli ... /81837496/
A new accounting of guns that were allowed to be trafficked to Mexico as part of a botched U.S. firearms investigation shows that one of the weapons was used last year in a deadly shootout that left three Mexican police officers dead.

A Justice Department summary provided to two Republican congressional committee chairmen Tuesday found that a WASR-10 rifle, purchased six years before in the U.S., was one of three rifles fired in the July 27 assault in the town of Valle de Zaragoza. It was not immediately known which weapon caused the officers’ fatal wounds.

Nevertheless, Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms and Explosives officials traced the WASR rifle to a Nov. 12, 2009, transaction that was part of the flawed federal gun trafficking operation, known as “Operation Fast and Furious.”
sbɐɯ ʎʇıɔɐdɐɔ pɹɐpuɐʇs ɟo ןןnɟ ǝɟɐs
ɯɯ6 bdd ɹǝɥʇןɐʍ
13ʞ
"ǝuıqɹɐɔ 1ɐ4ɯ" dɯɐʇsןןoɹ --- ɯoɔos0269ǝן ʇןoɔ
"ǝuıqɹɐɔ ʇuǝɯǝɔɹoɟuǝ ʍɐן sʇןoɔ" dɯɐʇsןןoɹ --- 0269ǝן ʇןoɔ
(béɟ) 59-pɯɐ

Re: More details of Fast and Furious

15
Rifle found at El Chapo hideout reportedly linked to Fast and Furious:

"The (Justice) department said in a letter to members of Congress that a .50-caliber rifle that Mexican officials sent for tracing after Guzman's arrest in January has since been connected to Fast and Furious."

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/e96dba46 ... nd-furious
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Re: More details of Fast and Furious

16
The Obama administration did a Friday afternoon document dump on the case.

"Obama administration turns over 'Fast and Furious' documents"
http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/08/politics/ ... documents/
"Today, under court order, DOJ turned over some of the subpoenaed documents," Chaffetz, a Utah Republican, said in a statement. "The committee, however, is entitled to the full range of documents for which it brought this lawsuit. Accordingly, we have appealed the District Court's ruling in order to secure those additional documents."

As part of its long-running investigation into the operation, the House Oversight Committee subpoenaed documents from the administration. But the White House declined to provide them, claiming some of the materials are protected under Obama's executive privilege. After a legal fight over the issue, a federal court ordered the administration in January to hand over the documents, and on Friday, the committee received thousands of pages related to the operation.

"The department believes the information being provided to the committee, along with material previously disclosed, fully satisfies the committee's interest in understanding the department's response to congressional inquiries regarding Operation Fast and Furious," the Department of Justice said in a statement late Friday afternoon.
Bob Owens:
http://bearingarms.com/hillary-know-hun ... ious-guns/
Not a single ATF agent has be criminally charged for their role in the operation, nor have any been fired, or even demoted. Most were in fact laterally transferred to favorable assignments that were functional promotions. Other Department of Justice, State Department, and White House officials that must have played a role in authorizing the gun-walking plot have also never been held to account.

Hundreds of people, including elected officials, law enforcement officers, and even children have been murdered with guns smuggled over the border in Fast and Furious, one of up to ten gun-walking operations being carried out in border states from California to Florida, supplying 20,000 guns to narco-terrorists at precisely the same time that President Barack Obama, former Attorney General Eric Holder, and then Secretary of State Hillary Clinton were pushing the infamous 90-Percent Lie in an effort to manufacture an excuse to ban certain firearms.

Curiously, the very firearms that Obama, Holder, and Clinton wanted to ban publicly were the same ones that Holder’s Department of Justice was walking into Mexico by the thousands in what appears to be a concerted effort to inflate trace data by manufacturing evidence.
Related:
Chicago Tribune: Garland, Texas shooter had Fast&Furious gun
Fortune Magazine: The truth about the Fast and Furious scandal
Fast & Furious was a pussy operation
Contempt plans for Holder of Fast and Furious
The Young Turks on "Fast & Furious"
Nyt: fast and furious shows need for a reformed atf
sbɐɯ ʎʇıɔɐdɐɔ pɹɐpuɐʇs ɟo ןןnɟ ǝɟɐs
ɯɯ6 bdd ɹǝɥʇןɐʍ
13ʞ
"ǝuıqɹɐɔ 1ɐ4ɯ" dɯɐʇsןןoɹ --- ɯoɔos0269ǝן ʇןoɔ
"ǝuıqɹɐɔ ʇuǝɯǝɔɹoɟuǝ ʍɐן sʇןoɔ" dɯɐʇsןןoɹ --- 0269ǝן ʇןoɔ
(béɟ) 59-pɯɐ

Re: More details of Fast and Furious

18
:hmmm: Some of the information related to the FOIA release referred to above has been digested by "cnsnews" whatever that is. :eh:
We are still uncovering grisly details of the Obama administration’s deadly Operation Fast and Furious gunrunning program. Just last week, we revealed that from December 2012 to March 2016, 94 Fast and Furious weapons were picked up at various crime scenes.

We released Justice Department documents showing that weapons sent from the U.S. into Mexico have been widely used by major drug cartels. Over the past three years, a total of 94 Fast and Furious firearms have been recovered in Mexico City and 12 Mexican states, with the majority being seized in Sonora, Chihuahua and Sinaloa. Of the weapons recovered, 82 were rifles and 12 were pistols identified as having been part of the Fast and Furious program. Reports suggest these particular Fast and Furious guns are tied to at least 69 killings.

Fast and Furious was a Department of Justice, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) “gunrunning” operation in which the Obama administration allowed guns to be sold to Mexican drug cartels in the hope the weapons would be recovered at crime scenes. Fast and Furious weapons have been implicated in the murder of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry and hundreds of other innocents in Mexico. Prior reports tie Fast and Furious weapons to at least 200 deaths in Mexico alone.
Link:
http://www.cnsnews.com/commentary/tom-f ... apons-drug
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Re: More details of Fast and Furious

19
Congressional committee wants answers on 'Fast and Furious' gun scandal
Good luck with that.
WASHINGTON - Coverups continue more than six years after Congress revealed an ill-advised U.S. government effort to catch gun traffickers by letting Mexican gun cartels buy automated weapons, witnesses told a House investigative committee on Wednesday.
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"Absent from this strategy was any modicum of public safety," said Chaffetz. "ATF failed in its mission to protect our communities from violent criminals and the illegal use and trafficking of firearms."

Josephine Terry, whose border patrol agent son, Brian, was killed in a 2010 gunfight with drug traffickers in the Arizona desert, said probes into his death have been plagued by "cover-ups and deceptions from the very people he served." She said many of those who spearheaded the gun sales operation got Justice Department promotions and awards.
sbɐɯ ʎʇıɔɐdɐɔ pɹɐpuɐʇs ɟo ןןnɟ ǝɟɐs
ɯɯ6 bdd ɹǝɥʇןɐʍ
13ʞ
"ǝuıqɹɐɔ 1ɐ4ɯ" dɯɐʇsןןoɹ --- ɯoɔos0269ǝן ʇןoɔ
"ǝuıqɹɐɔ ʇuǝɯǝɔɹoɟuǝ ʍɐן sʇןoɔ" dɯɐʇsןןoɹ --- 0269ǝן ʇןoɔ
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