Re: Where are the militias?

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Or would the cops just fucking waste them because they aren't white ranchers like Cliven Bundy, wanting free shit from the government? Hell, look what the cops are doing now and the Ferguson protesters have done nothing remotely as violent or threatening as the Bundy ranch assholes.

As for the Tea Party and the NRA, all those brave people who stand for "freedom" have pretty much scattered like fleas on an itchy dog and run when it comes time to oppose actual violence, not just playing cowboy. Freedom ain't free, but it sure is white. - See more at: http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/2014/08/ ... zsboK.dpuf
No matter what the actual truth turns out to be, true colors are being shown, but the media has managed the two incidents very differently.

CDFingers
Crazy cat peekin' through a lace bandana
like a one-eyed Cheshire, like a diamond-eyed Jack

Re: Where are the militias?

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GeorgiaRN wrote:I saw pictures. They were guarding the stores with their AKs and ARs. Someone appeared to have a FAL or a G3.
This were the store owners and friends.

I guess the Oath Keepers are too busy debating if person not in a position mentioned by the Constitution can issue an Unconstitutional law. It's hard to debate constitutional theory when you haven't read it.
"No one can build his security upon the nobleness of another person."
-Willa Cather

Re: Where are the militias?

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KnightsFan wrote:
GeorgiaRN wrote:I saw pictures. They were guarding the stores with their AKs and ARs. Someone appeared to have a FAL or a G3.
This were the store owners and friends.

I guess the Oath Keepers are too busy debating if person not in a position mentioned by the Constitution can issue an Unconstitutional law. It's hard to debate constitutional theory when you haven't read it.
Especially if it affects only 3/5ths of a person. :sarcasm:
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

Re: Where are the militias?

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KnightsFan wrote:
GeorgiaRN wrote:I saw pictures. They were guarding the stores with their AKs and ARs. Someone appeared to have a FAL or a G3.
This were the store owners and friends.

Not really wanting to joust, but isn't this point of armed groups of civilians? They are providing defense when the government is not. While it is not an organized group of people with a website and patches, is this not a group of people using 2A rights the way they were meant to be used?
EAT,SLEEP,RANGE,REPEAT

Re: Where are the militias?

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GeorgiaRN wrote:
KnightsFan wrote:
GeorgiaRN wrote:I saw pictures. They were guarding the stores with their AKs and ARs. Someone appeared to have a FAL or a G3.
This were the store owners and friends.

Not really wanting to joust, but isn't this point of armed groups of civilians? They are providing defense when the government is not. While it is not an organized group of people with a website and patches, is this not a group of people using 2A rights the way they were meant to be used?
Indeed. Local communities did the same thing during the Rodney King verdict riots back in '92 and after Katrina in New Orleans. Local LEO in/around Ferguson can't keep the peace, so people are doing what they feel is best to protect their businesses.
LGC Texas - Vice President

Re: Where are the militias?

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GeorgiaRN wrote:
KnightsFan wrote:
GeorgiaRN wrote:I saw pictures. They were guarding the stores with their AKs and ARs. Someone appeared to have a FAL or a G3.
This were the store owners and friends.

Not really wanting to joust, but isn't this point of armed groups of civilians? They are providing defense when the government is not. While it is not an organized group of people with a website and patches, is this not a group of people using 2A rights the way they were meant to be used?
But that's not what the Op-ed is referring to. It, and we, are referring to the large national organizations always blathering on about government overreach and defending the People from illegal actions.
"No one can build his security upon the nobleness of another person."
-Willa Cather

Re: Where are the militias?

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Why would the NRA send a militia to Ferguson? Where else in the US have they sent militias? And this leads the author to this conclusion:

"So, perhaps we should now be allowed to say out loud what we've known all along: That these organisations are not interested in liberty, but instead are focused on white supremacy at all costs. Perhaps in lieu of material support or a statement of solidarity, we can ask them to simply admit that they are uninterested in black and brown people."

While the Tea Party and NRA leadership may in fact be racist, I fail to understand how this is tied in to Ferguson (or gun control, or Israel, or all the other unrelated stuff this person is blabbering on about) I also fail to understand why this article is worth the electrons it's printed on.

Re: Where are the militias?

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begemot wrote:Why would the NRA send a militia to Ferguson? Where else in the US have they sent militias? And this leads the author to this conclusion:
The NRA would not. But Other, NRA affiliated Right wing lunatic groups sent militias to Bundy Ranch in defense of government tyranny. Why not go help the oppressed citizens of Ferguson?
begemot wrote:"So, perhaps we should now be allowed to say out loud what we've known all along: That these organisations are not interested in liberty, but instead are focused on white supremacy at all costs. Perhaps in lieu of material support or a statement of solidarity, we can ask them to simply admit that they are uninterested in black and brown people."

While the Tea Party and NRA leadership may in fact be racist, I fail to understand how this is tied in to Ferguson (or gun control, or Israel, or all the other unrelated stuff this person is blabbering on about) I also fail to understand why this article is worth the electrons it's printed on.
What ties the racism of the right to this, is that when "the little guy" being oppressed was a white tax dodger, armed men came to the aid of the tax dodger, when a back man is killed and the response prompts a city to protest its police force, which results in a tactical assault on the protesting citizens (like so much more tyrannical to prevent ones "right" to protest, than to prevent one's "use" of grazing lands); where are the militias to defend against tyranny!?!
E pluribus unum

Re: Where are the militias?

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I'm sure there's a race component in the difference of response from Bundy Ranch to Ferguson. Race impacts everything. But if this is your main comparison, do you believe that militia types would not have shown up if Bundy were not white? I'm not so sure. What happened in Nevada fit the sovereign citizen movement narrative perfectly - anti-FEDERAL government, anti-tax... An independent, patriot-frontiersman of the sovereign state of Nevada, bullied by an entity (BLM) that most with that worldview find illegitimate. This was largely bullshit but you can see how it is much easier to justify an armed show of force in that circumstance. It was also obviously safer to hang out in the desert with guns and cows then take up arms with looters in a ghetto against a hostile, militarized, possibly trigger-happy local police force, in apparent defense of an armed robber. Yes, I understand Bundy is a bigger crook than any cigar thief, but a well-marketed one (until he opened his stupid mouth, but that's a different story).

My problem with these comparisons is that they are facile and don't stand up to scrutiny. They also unfairly conflate unrelated issues to score easy points in the culture war and they deepen the cultural divide. Racism, gun rights, NRA, Tea Party, police, Israel, etc, etc. I would be surprised if someone hasn't worked abortion, religion, and the ACA into the discussion on some op-ed somewhere.

Re: Where are the militias?

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begemot wrote:I'm sure there's a race component in the difference of response from Bundy Ranch to Ferguson. Race impacts everything. But if this is your main comparison, do you believe that militia types would not have shown up if Bundy were not white? I'm not so sure. What happened in Nevada fit the sovereign citizen movement narrative perfectly - anti-FEDERAL government, anti-tax... An independent, patriot-frontiersman of the sovereign state of Nevada, bullied by an entity (BLM) that most with that worldview find illegitimate. This was largely bullshit but you can see how it is much easier to justify an armed show of force in that circumstance. It was also obviously safer to hang out in the desert with guns and cows then take up arms with looters in a ghetto against a hostile, militarized, possibly trigger-happy local police force, in apparent defense of an armed robber. Yes, I understand Bundy is a bigger crook than any cigar thief, but a well-marketed one (until he opened his stupid mouth, but that's a different story).

My problem with these comparisons is that they are facile and don't stand up to scrutiny. They also unfairly conflate unrelated issues to score easy points in the culture war and they deepen the cultural divide. Racism, gun rights, NRA, Tea Party, police, Israel, etc, etc. I would be surprised if someone hasn't worked abortion, religion, and the ACA into the discussion on some op-ed somewhere.
Ah! didjya hear the news? He paid for the cigars! The police edited the footage to discredit the victim.

http://brandonjessup.com/video-full-foo ... um=twitter

But that doesn't matter... the minds are made up. He's a "Thug" or he's "Thuggish"

Not buyin it here...

The officer who shot this dude, snapped, and the police worked hard to cover it up, because they would want the same thing done for them if they snapped.

But ya know what? If you think you might snap, and you're worried you might need your fellow officers to cover up for ya.... you aint right for the job.
E pluribus unum

Re: Where are the militias?

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edfromnj wrote:
begemot wrote:I'm sure there's a race component in the difference of response from Bundy Ranch to Ferguson. Race impacts everything. But if this is your main comparison, do you believe that militia types would not have shown up if Bundy were not white? I'm not so sure. What happened in Nevada fit the sovereign citizen movement narrative perfectly - anti-FEDERAL government, anti-tax... An independent, patriot-frontiersman of the sovereign state of Nevada, bullied by an entity (BLM) that most with that worldview find illegitimate. This was largely bullshit but you can see how it is much easier to justify an armed show of force in that circumstance. It was also obviously safer to hang out in the desert with guns and cows then take up arms with looters in a ghetto against a hostile, militarized, possibly trigger-happy local police force, in apparent defense of an armed robber. Yes, I understand Bundy is a bigger crook than any cigar thief, but a well-marketed one (until he opened his stupid mouth, but that's a different story).

My problem with these comparisons is that they are facile and don't stand up to scrutiny. They also unfairly conflate unrelated issues to score easy points in the culture war and they deepen the cultural divide. Racism, gun rights, NRA, Tea Party, police, Israel, etc, etc. I would be surprised if someone hasn't worked abortion, religion, and the ACA into the discussion on some op-ed somewhere.
Ah! didjya hear the news? He paid for the cigars! The police edited the footage to discredit the victim.

http://brandonjessup.com/video-full-foo ... um=twitter

But that doesn't matter... the minds are made up. He's a "Thug" or he's "Thuggish"

Not buyin it here...

The officer who shot this dude, snapped, and the police worked hard to cover it up, because they would want the same thing done for them if they snapped.

But ya know what? If you think you might snap, and you're worried you might need your fellow officers to cover up for ya.... you aint right for the job.
So, which guy in the video is the author at the link contending is Brown? Because it looks like the guy (red hat, white shirt, shorts, socks w/ sandals) who enters, approaches the cigars, and selects cigars, is the same guy (red hat, white shirt, shorts, socks w/ sandals) who assaults the clerk. Red hat guy also makes no attempt to pay, which contradicts the linked author's claim, assuming red hat guy is Brown. Am I missing something? The absence of payment in this video is not necessarily an indictment of red hat guy because I don't know if there's a point of sale between where he selects the cigars and where he exits, but it does NOT support the claim that he "clearly paid for his cigars," because it doesn't show that happening. At best, it supports the claim that we don't know for sure what happened in the store, since we don't have a camera angle on whatever hypothetical registers may exist between where he selected the cigars and where he exited. But if the counter where the cigars were selected was the only operating point of sale, then the video pretty conclusively shows a strong arm robbery committed by the guy in the red hat. If Brown is supposed to be someone else in the video, that was not made clear at the link.
Image

Re: Where are the militias?

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Wow, that was actually pretty awful. To the author of that article:

Image


There are a number of other reasons that are more likely involved than "it must be racism!" Overlooking the mistake in conflating Open Carry demonstrators with Teabaggers, the scenarios are actually quite different in some crucial respects.

1) The agents of the state in the Bundy Ranch were seen as the aggressors, trying to take over some "poor rancher's" land. Conversely in Ferguson the agents of the state are on the defensive, trying to maintain order against a mob mentality.

2) Bundy Ranch protests were non-violent, and protestors even mostly followed the early rules of designated "first amendment zones" to protest. There was no rioting, nothing set on fire, no looting, etc..

3) State forces are seldom seem as "bad" as federal. Teabaggers can't indirectly blame Obama for ferguson because the Feds aren't involved. There's no bloated, ineffectual federal bureaucracy like the BLM in Ferguson. "Local cops" don't have the onerous tone of "federal agency."

4) The Bundy Ranch was more closely ideologically aligned with conservative rhetoric, specifically regarding taxes and federal "abuse" of power.

5) It's easier to make a symbolic stand against tyranny than a real one. The ranch issue was calm with a lot of posturing. The government agencies were not mobilizing to nearly the extent, indeed the local sheriffs had to back down because they were outnumbered and outgunned. Meanwhile the supporters could go make a show of support, putz around with their rifles, drink some beer, hang out, trash talk Obama, whatever in relative safety. If the "gubmint" had made a move towards violence, the supporters would probably have fucked off, the lot of them.

Meanwhile Ferguson doesn't have just a vague threat of violence, it's already boiled over into real, actual violence. Somebody open carry protesting there is far more likely to be shot.

6) As soon as Bundy dropped his racial comments support for him evaporated. Even the conservative web forum posters were beginning to backpedal, trying to differentiate separate the man from the mission.

begemot wrote:Yes, yes. Everyone has assault rifles, and everyone is a white supremacist, and it's horrifying that a "hip-hop scholar" allowed to editorialize for a major paper doesn't know what "ironic" means.
Correct use of irony seems like a lot to expect from a musical culture that hasn't yet figured out what "rhyme" or "original music" means. :P
"These are hard times, NOT end times!"
- Jon Stewart, Rally to Restore Sanity

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes.

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