Cop shoots man for refusal to show ID at animal shelter

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Man goes to drop off a stray cat at the animal shelter, staff asks for ID. He gives them a notarized paper stating who he is. They refuse it,call cops.cops demand ID he refuses they tell him, he is under arrest, fight ensured, he is shot and dies. This was in December 2014, since then there has been no official report of the actions or results of the investigation released.

http://www.alternet.org/cops-kill-man-r ... ain-silent

That sounds like, if we ignore the problem it will just disappear.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
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Re: Cop shoots man for refusal to show ID at animal shelter

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whitey wrote:So the shelters in Texas put down people along with animals? Duly noted. :crazy:
Don't blame us, that was in Alabama. We don't shoot them like that, we do it humanly in the TDC Ellis Unit at Huntsville where they are guilty or not.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

Re: Cop shoots man for refusal to show ID at animal shelter

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TrueTexan wrote:
whitey wrote:So the shelters in Texas put down people along with animals? Duly noted. :crazy:
Don't blame us, that was in Alabama. We don't shoot them like that, we do it humanly in the TDC Ellis Unit at Huntsville where they are guilty or not.
Oops, sorry, for some reason I automatically guessed Texas. Next time I'll read the article.
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Re: Cop shoots man for refusal to show ID at animal shelter

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inomaha wrote:You need to show ID to drop off a stray?

He would have gotten off easier if he hung the cat from a tree and lit it on fire. :o
No because in Alabama it is not a cat that he could get away with doing that to.
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Re: Cop shoots man for refusal to show ID at animal shelter

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Here's a slightly more objective report. Ya think just maybe something else might have occurred between refusing to show ID and getting shot? Perhaps some behavior that the shelter staff found threatening enough to make them call the police?

http://www.wtvy.com/home/headlines/Doth ... 35311.html
"There never was a union of church and state which did not bring serious evils to religion."
The Right Reverend John England, first Roman Catholic Bishop of Charleston SC, 1825.

Re: Cop shoots man for refusal to show ID at animal shelter

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It's unsurprising that the report list a series of dog whistle words...
On December 30, 2014 the Dothan Police Department responded to a disorderly conduct complaint which ended in an officer involved shooting. Following standard procedures, the investigation into the incident will be handled by the ALEA State Bureau of Investigation. However, Dothan Police are able to comment on the events which precipitated the shooting.

At approximately 12:30 pm officers made contact with Robert Lawrence at the Dothan City Animal Shelter after he attempted to turn a stray animal over to an employee. Lawrence, a sovereign citizen, became disorderly after being told he could not leave the animal without producing identification. After repeatedly being told to calm down, Lawrence was advised he was being placed under arrest. A physical altercation ensued, to which Lawrence was shot in the abdomen.
If you use the right words, you can make almost anything seem justifiable. He was under NO OBLIGATION to show his ID whilst dropping off an animal. That's the key. He refused, and was dubbed "Disorderly". Cops show up, and push the issue, even though he's under no obligation to show his ID. Now he's dubbed "Sovereign Citizen". He won't acquiesces to the BS demands be placed on him, so force is used, which results in his death.

I'm not swayed just because the douchebag who shot him and those who are attempting to cover for him wrote a report in which they try to make him look like a bad guy. No, not after all of the recent incidents. I'd really like to see the surveillance video, better yet, how about the "cop cam". Even if this cop were wearing such a camera, I doubt it would be released. Writing words on a page doesn't make them true.

EDA: Those dog whistle words mean a lot to the law enforcement community, but to the rest of the community, it's the police violence stemming from an incident they shouldn't even have been a part of in the first pace that means the most.
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Re: Cop shoots man for refusal to show ID at animal shelter

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AmirMortal wrote:It's unsurprising that the report list a series of dog whistle words...
"Dog whistle words," eh?

Help me understand your definition of "dog whistle words." By your logic, if a person is pulled over for failure to yield right of way, that's what he was sent to prison for, "outstanding felony warrant for armed robbery" is a dog whistle word, and you consider, "went to prison for failure to yield right of way" an accurate description, is that correct?

This is under "Firearms in the News," so where's your speculation about what happened during the scuffle? Is asking, "Was he going for the cop's pistol?" a dog whistle word, too?
"There never was a union of church and state which did not bring serious evils to religion."
The Right Reverend John England, first Roman Catholic Bishop of Charleston SC, 1825.

Re: Cop shoots man for refusal to show ID at animal shelter

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fknauss wrote:I think "sovereign citizen" is a code word for "someone who will escalate any interaction with any authority to violence, regardless of any deescalation attempts by the authority".
I think that's pretty damn good accurate working definition.
"There never was a union of church and state which did not bring serious evils to religion."
The Right Reverend John England, first Roman Catholic Bishop of Charleston SC, 1825.

Re: Cop shoots man for refusal to show ID at animal shelter

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Granted it's possible I have a situational bias towards cops and against sovereign citizens.
I may have misread the article, but it seems to have a maximum of anti-cop bias, with a minimum of actual research. It could have started with "A sovereign citizen with a history of violence against women, government, and with severe anger issues, got in an altercation with police officers while trying to abandon his kitten to be euthanized at the local shelter".(enough dog whistle language in that sentence.)
News article failed to mention the dead guys history of violence.
Google search:
http://www.dothaneagle.com/news/crime_c ... b6675.html
recently served time in jail for making threats to government employees and also had two women file protection orders against him earlier in the year.
Without more actual reporting-getting facts-we don't know if the dead man was verbally disruptive, physically disruptive, grabbed at a cops weapon, or took a swing at someone. We don't know much about the dead guy. He may be the victim, he may have provoked the shooting. It may be murder, it may be self defense.

Lots of shelters now require ID and cash up front to accept a rescue. Vet fees, food, insurance, heat, light, water bills, the possibility that the animal was stolen all are factors. If it's a private shelter, they can have their own rule about accepting animals and can refuse any animal. A public shelter may be bound by local ordinances. Notary is just a witness to a signature. I don't think I would have accepted a notarized note as ID to cash a check. State issued photo ID is the usual requirement. Don't know if a notarized copy of his mug shot counts.

Not the first time a sovereign citizen has escalated a minor easily solved situation into one where violence and guns are involved. Usually they prefer to do so in front of a camera, then edit it. We had one locally who refused to leave a foreclosed building (didn't recognize legal tender, wasn't bound by his signature on a contract) until a SWAT team went in and explained the real life option package. He also refused to acknowledge the right of the Highway Patrol to enforce traffic laws (no license, illegal plates) while driving on a federal highway. No shooting, but only because the cops don't enjoy blood shed, and shotguns at close range leave little to argue about.

Unlike TV, trials usually are not the next day. Especially murder trials. Without more factual evidence, this"news" article and the source its self look to be part of an anti cop propaganda program. Why it it so frequent that the cop is assumed to be at fault, then when a jury is involved and the cops are found to be justified, it's called a coverup.
Last edited by dougb on Fri Apr 24, 2015 12:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cop shoots man for refusal to show ID at animal shelter

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Running an animal shelter is expensive. As taxes dwindle for their support, they have to start charging fees. It doesn't surprise me that they want to track who brings pets in, so that they can mitigate the worst offenders.

If he didn't want to show ID, he could have gone to a private vet and paid them to deal with it. He was just abusing a public service.

I'm not sure there are good options for the problem, aside from making it a lot harder for people to have pets. Given the abundance of ferals out there, that's not going to happen.
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Re: Cop shoots man for refusal to show ID at animal shelter

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eelj wrote:Constantly being asked to show your papers to people in authority is antithetical to many, myself included. I'm turning 62 next month and growing up we were taught that only happened in police states.
There's a certain segment of the population that provokes encounters with law enforcement for sport so they can complain about just this sort of thing. They often self-identify as 'sovereign citizens." It certainly sounds like Mr. Lawrence was such a person.
"There never was a union of church and state which did not bring serious evils to religion."
The Right Reverend John England, first Roman Catholic Bishop of Charleston SC, 1825.

Re: Cop shoots man for refusal to show ID at animal shelter

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eelj wrote:Things have changed rather quickly since 911 and sovereign citizen sounds like a term coined by homeland security for people uncomfortable with homeland security.
The term came out of the Posse Comitatus Movement in the 1990s and is widely embraced by adherents. No need to create a false etymology when you have Google.
"There never was a union of church and state which did not bring serious evils to religion."
The Right Reverend John England, first Roman Catholic Bishop of Charleston SC, 1825.

Re: Cop shoots man for refusal to show ID at animal shelter

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eelj wrote:Constantly being asked to show your papers to people in authority is antithetical to many, myself included. I'm turning 62 next month and growing up we were taught that only happened in police states.
Post-9/11 you're just supposed to obey. In recent years I have heard members of the media opine that the social contract between the people and the government has changed to the extent that we have voluntarily sacrificed liberty for security and are OK with that. I don't recall signing any such contract.
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Re: Cop shoots man for refusal to show ID at animal shelter

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fknauss wrote:I think is was self selected. If you're going to opt in to a group of assholes, I'm not going to cry when you get your just deserts.
Reading through the different links he never claimed to be part of that group and his parents deny it but he just seemed to be so I guess it's a good clean kill. Our whole society sucks from top to bottom and side to side.
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