Help me improve my groups!

1
To be clear, I'm pretty inexperienced shooting paper. Here's a typical 12 round session, in double action.
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So, I start off at 7 yards. I'm getting 3 to 4 inch groups shooting single action, with the occasional flyer.

For some odd reason, my groups are as good or better in double action.

In all cases, I think these groups are pretty so-so. In my defense, the lighting is poor. And the sights are a black patridge front and a target rear sight, which means very little room for light on the sides and no real contrast.

Things just get worse further out.

By the way, Smith, for reasons they did not share, replaced both the barrel and the cylinder during its trip back to Springfield. But even prior to that work, I was still getting similar groupings. One thing I have wondered is if this gun is just not optimized (for lack of a better word) for cast bullets. Just wondering...

I'm not happy with the grips. The Hogue is too small for my hands. My Ahrends are better but they too, are not big enough. What I want are some true target style grips but nobody seems to make them for round butt Smiths. Might have to pay big bucks for some custom grips from Culina or some other.

I will say that with my 45 New Vaquero, I can get tighter groups that this at twice as far. I can do nearly as well with my N frame, a gun that I've shot far less. But I just can't get much better than this with my 686. What gives?
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The Swiss are the lovers
The French are the mechanics
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Re: Help me improve my groups!

2
Look for "round to square" grips. I think that's what you're describing. http://www.hogueinc.com/grips/S&W/kfram ... conversion
http://altamontco.com/experimental/prod ... kframe.php

Single action will remove some of the wobble you might be getting in double action.

Other than that, practice. Pay attention to the sights and recreate the same picture each time. Limit movement to the trigger finger.
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Re: Help me improve my groups!

5
I have found standing closer to the target helps tremendously....

But really, it is a steadiness thing for me. Breath control, and trigger control, must be practiced together, as they work together. Practice - relax - practice some more. My groups are slowly improving.
"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo.
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Re: Help me improve my groups!

7
I'd third the grips- the new custom grips I had done made to my hands have (well, with some other work as well, to be fair) transformed my Virginian Dragoon into a dream to shoot. Best groups I've ever shot with it was the first time out today, which was after the grips had been done.
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Re: Help me improve my groups!

8
If your cast bullets are not leading the bore they should be shooting as accurate as jacketed. I've said this before with others that if in doubt have someone who is known to be a crack shot shoot your gun or if you have access to a ransom rest use that. Your Smith should be capable of less than 2" at 25yds from a bench rest.
"Hillary Clinton is the finest, bravest, kindest, the most wonderful person I've ever known in my whole life" Raymond Shaw

Re: Help me improve my groups!

9
eelj wrote:If your cast bullets are not leading the bore they should be shooting as accurate as jacketed. I've said this before with others that if in doubt have someone who is known to be a crack shot shoot your gun or if you have access to a ransom rest use that. Your Smith should be capable of less than 2" at 25yds from a bench rest.
I shot 150 rounds today and virtually no leading; just a little lube residue. I'm very happy with that.
I don't have access to a Ransom rest and I'm still looking for that crack shot so they can show me that I'm the problem. :?

As for the grips; I have the big honkin Presentation Pachmayrs on my N frame and I can do all right. The Vaquero is whole different ballgame with that plowhandle and stout recoil. And yet, I can do most satisfactorily with that as well. A nice, slack grip does the trick.

The 686 is missing some critical element, I mean beyond the shooter's skill. :cry:
Hell is where:
The British are the chefs
The Swiss are the lovers
The French are the mechanics
The Italians make everything run on time
And the Germans are the police

Re: Help me improve my groups!

10
Watch your grip. It should be firm, not white knuckled. Make certain that you do not tighten all the fingers of your firing hand when you pull the trigger. That alone will move your POI.

Watch that you don't anticipate the recoil and push with your firing hand.
Last edited by sturner on Mon Jun 22, 2015 1:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Help me improve my groups!

11
Get a big target. Draw a big circle on the back. Aim sort of into the middle of the circle, and then, rather than focusing on where the bullet is supposed to go, pay attention to how it feels to shoot the gun - does it bite? slide around?

I assume you've already done the raise it with your eyes closed thing to determine your NPOA, and make sure that the grips give you natural sight alignment.

These are just some thoughts - you've got enough experience shooting that the basic fundamentals should be there...
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Re: Help me improve my groups!

12
My fave SW 44spec was nothing to write home about when I first got it but now I really like it and I guess it likes me. :love:

I had to spit shine the rebound block and frame until the pull and release were slick and predictable.

By trial and error I found 200 lead, not 240 like I started with, shot the most consistently.

Next was the load. I've ended up with titegroup just a tad over max.

Now that gun and load are a perfect match.
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Puffing up is no substitute for smarts but it's a common home remedy

Re: Help me improve my groups!

13
beaurrr wrote:
eelj wrote:If your cast bullets are not leading the bore they should be shooting as accurate as jacketed. I've said this before with others that if in doubt have someone who is known to be a crack shot shoot your gun or if you have access to a ransom rest use that. Your Smith should be capable of less than 2" at 25yds from a bench rest.
I shot 150 rounds today and virtually no leading; just a little lube residue. I'm very happy with that.
I don't have access to a Ransom rest and I'm still looking for that crack shot so they can show me that I'm the problem. :?

As for the grips; I have the big honkin Presentation Pachmayrs on my N frame and I can do all right. The Vaquero is whole different ballgame with that plowhandle and stout recoil. And yet, I can do most satisfactorily with that as well. A nice, slack grip does the trick.

The 686 is missing some critical element, I mean beyond the shooter's skill. :cry:
A lot of dry firing at very small targets concentrating on the sights is just about as good as live fire. Lets hope it is you, that revolver has given you enough trouble already.
"Hillary Clinton is the finest, bravest, kindest, the most wonderful person I've ever known in my whole life" Raymond Shaw

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