Center hold or six o'clock hold for Bullseye?

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Do you use a center hold or six o'clock hold when shooting at bullseye targets?

Center hold
4
31%
Six o'clock
7
54%
Gangster style
0
No votes
I close my eyes and pull the trigger
2
15%
 
Total votes: 13

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Buck13
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Center hold or six o'clock hold for Bullseye?

#1 Post by Buck13 » Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:32 am

Do you use a center hold or six o'clock on your round targets? I've been using six o'clock, on the basis that it was more precise and traditional for BE shooting (seems like I read that somewhere), but I'm suspicious that it is encouraging me to jerk the trigger when I try to catch the moment that the sight post touches the bottom of the bullseye. My targets look mostly non-Gaussian, so I'm pretty sure I'm scattering the shots AWAY from the point of aim with crappy technique.

My ability to hold steadily is barely good enough to keep the front sight over the black rings (maybe not even that 100%), so I'm thinking that if I switch to a center hold and just try to accept that I'm *somewhere* in the black, I'll get fewer 4s and 5s, replaced by mostly 7s. It's not like I get many 10s anyway.

I probably need to work on my stance, since I've noticed that I'm not consistent in that area: sometimes leaning forward slightly, sometimes more upright. I can probably tone down some swaying by figuring that out, but I'm pretty twitchy, so I'm not sure I'm ever going to be able to hold impressively steadily. It may be better to try to work around that. No doubt my grip also needs work. And I've been blowing off dry-fire practice for a few months, which can't help...

Shooting the silhouette match with my big MkII, I adjusted my sights for a low-center hold on the critters and *maybe* didn't yank them around as badly.
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Re: Center hold or six o'clock hold for Bullseye?

#2 Post by SailDesign » Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:44 am

So much depends on the gun - as in "will you ever use it at different distances or with different targets?"

If you will only ever use that gun for those targets, at that distance, then 6-o'clock is best for open sights. Otherwise, use a center hold since the diameter of your targets may change.

Or get used to sighting it in every time. :)
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Re: Center hold or six o'clock hold for Bullseye?

#3 Post by Bardo » Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:51 am

COM....as distance increases i shoot more towards 12 oclock

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Re: Center hold or six o'clock hold for Bullseye?

#4 Post by CDFingers » Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:38 am

Each ammo is going to print differently. I know how Federal American Eagle prints, so I do a center hold at 15 yards. Winchester white box with the pumpkin flash, six o'clock. And so on.

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Re: Center hold or six o'clock hold for Bullseye?

#5 Post by YankeeTarheel » Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:48 am

There's a bullseye??????????
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Re: Center hold or six o'clock hold for Bullseye?

#6 Post by Eris » Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:18 pm

YankeeTarheel wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:48 am
There's a bullseye??????????
No, that's just a myth. All targets have an exclusion zone around the middle of them that prevents bullets from hitting there.
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Re: Center hold or six o'clock hold for Bullseye?

#7 Post by danhue » Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:43 pm

For BE I typically prefer 6 o’clock because the contrast of the sights with the clear area of the target is better. Makes it a little easier to maintain sight alignment and picture. If not for that, I prefer aiming for the center.

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Re: Center hold or six o'clock hold for Bullseye?

#8 Post by Bucolic » Tue Oct 30, 2018 1:22 pm

I split the black. Sometimes it works.


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Re: Center hold or six o'clock hold for Bullseye?

#9 Post by FlyGuy » Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:06 pm

You need to aim?

I just will it to the center

Just visualize and concentrate, be one with the bullet, be the bullet...

what could go wrong?
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Re: Center hold or six o'clock hold for Bullseye?

#10 Post by AndyH » Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:10 pm

YankeeTarheel wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:48 am
There's a bullseye??????????
You've borrowed them long enough - I want my eyes back. :lol:

I have to take it on faith that the darker grey smeary thing way down there might have a bullseye in it. ;)
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Re: Center hold or six o'clock hold for Bullseye?

#11 Post by featureless » Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:21 pm

Eris wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:18 pm
YankeeTarheel wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:48 am
There's a bullseye??????????
No, that's just a myth. All targets have an exclusion zone around the middle of them that prevents bullets from hitting there.
:lol: you've seen me shoot, then?

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Re: Center hold or six o'clock hold for Bullseye?

#12 Post by Buck13 » Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:06 pm

Eris wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:18 pm
YankeeTarheel wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:48 am
There's a bullseye??????????
No, that's just a myth. All targets have an exclusion zone around the middle of them that prevents bullets from hitting there.
That's often been my experience. Sometimes the exclusion field gets turned off, but I can't figure out why. Maybe range gnomes.
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Re: Center hold or six o'clock hold for Bullseye?

#13 Post by Buck13 » Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:07 pm

FlyGuy wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:06 pm
You need to aim?

I just will it to the center

Just visualize and concentrate, be one with the bullet, be the bullet...

what could go wrong?
You're not being the bullet, Danny.
IMR4227: Zero to 900 in 0.001 seconds

I'm only killing paper and my self-esteem.

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Re: Center hold or six o'clock hold for Bullseye?

#14 Post by YankeeTarheel » Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:10 pm

Buck13 wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:06 pm
Eris wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:18 pm
YankeeTarheel wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:48 am
There's a bullseye??????????
No, that's just a myth. All targets have an exclusion zone around the middle of them that prevents bullets from hitting there.
That's often been my experience. Sometimes the exclusion field gets turned off, but I can't figure out why. Maybe range gnomes.
I've noticed that, too, but I chalked it up to shoddy manufacturing of the exclusion field. But it rarely actually fails, in my limited experience.
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Re: Center hold or six o'clock hold for Bullseye?

#15 Post by YankeeTarheel » Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:11 pm

AndyH wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:10 pm
YankeeTarheel wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:48 am
There's a bullseye??????????
You've borrowed them long enough - I want my eyes back. :lol:

I have to take it on faith that the darker grey smeary thing way down there might have a bullseye in it. ;)

Why? If all you see is that darker grey smear, what good are they??? :thumbsdown: :roflmao:
If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything." -- Mark Twain
My son says: "Don't argue with an idiot. They'll only drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!" -- YT

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Re: Center hold or six o'clock hold for Bullseye?

#16 Post by Marlene » Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:45 pm

Seems like a sketchy strategy to get yourself to stop snatching at the trigger.

Trigger technique to try:
Sights aligned - gradually add pressure
Sights go out of alignment- stop adding, but don’t reduce pressure
Sights back in alignment- start adding pressure again

Repeat until gun goes off

Having a more certain indication of whether the sights are properly aligned helps this technique, which is why 6:00 hold works better.
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Re: Center hold or six o'clock hold for Bullseye?

#17 Post by HuckleberryFun » Tue Oct 30, 2018 7:10 pm

Six o’clock hold with iton sites. I’m not 20 anymore dagnabbit!
(Since going over to red dots it’s back to center of the target except for irons only CMP Service Pistol)
Red dot optics make a big difference for vintage eyeballs.
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Re: Center hold or six o'clock hold for Bullseye?

#18 Post by VodoundaVinci » Tue Oct 30, 2018 7:54 pm

Rifles or pistols?

Depends on the gun and how the sights are set up. I never shoot handguns for bullseye and all my rifles have optics.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aH2xnj5ZFv8

Personally I point shoot or use indexing/threat focused shooting. I never attempt to gain a sight picture with a handgun. I stare with wide eyes at the threat, move, and engage via point shooting. I look at the threat - never the gun.

I never shoot bullseye with a handgun for fear I will root and acquire sights in a gunfight at 12' in which case I will be dead before I acquire a proper sight picture and squeeze off a round. I shoot while running and looking at the target as I move laterally to cover. Any attempt to acquire sights is death.

If yer target shooting with handguns please disregard my opinion and carry on. All my rifles have optics with iron sights as back up.

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Re: Center hold or six o'clock hold for Bullseye?

#19 Post by CDFingers » Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:02 pm

Gnomes. That rocked.

The three white dots-sights on the Springer milspec allow for me three bright fuzzy dots beneath a black fuzzy blob. I line up with the densest middle fuzz or hazy bottom fuzz on the middle dandelion, depending. I am often surprised.

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Re: Center hold or six o'clock hold for Bullseye?

#20 Post by TrueTexan » Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:49 pm

I do 6 o’clock on all but you p227 as it has the combat sights white dot to cover target. Also use laser on Shockwave because hard to use sights when shooting from hip.
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Re: Center hold or six o'clock hold for Bullseye?

#21 Post by joemac » Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:11 pm

OK, so I'm going to go ahead and sound like an idiot: can someone explain what the two terms mean? Or better yet, show pictures?

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Re: Center hold or six o'clock hold for Bullseye?

#22 Post by Buck13 » Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:21 pm

Bardo wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:51 am
COM....as distance increases i shoot more towards 12 oclock
I mean specifically shooting at B-2/B-3 Bullseye targets
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Re: Center hold or six o'clock hold for Bullseye?

#23 Post by Buck13 » Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:05 am

joemac wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:11 pm
OK, so I'm going to go ahead and sound like an idiot: can someone explain what the two terms mean? Or better yet, show pictures?
Center hold means the top of your front sight blade is cutting across the center of the circle of the bullseye, so if your hold was perfect, you would see a half-circle of the black target center above the sight. The problem is that the 10 ring of a B2 (50 foot slow-fire) target is slightly smaller than a quarter, while the black region of the target (including the 7 ring) is about the size of a tennis ball. So, if you're focused on the front sight, as is recommended, you're trying to judge the alignment of a black sight with the center of a fuzzy black patch, and you can only be off by 1/2" at 50 feet if you want to get a 10, which is hard to judge. And in poor light (many indoor ranges) black sights against a black bull get hard to see at all.

Six o'clock hold means that the top of your front sight blade is just touching the bottom of the bottom of the black 7 ring (it forms a line segment tangent to the bottom of the black bullseye). Even though you are focused on the front sight and the edge of the bullseye looks blurry, if it's not TOO badly out of focus, you can judge the edge of it consistently enough that, in principle, you can place the sight more accurately (vertically) than you probably can judge by the half-circle method of a center hold, and since the low point of the circle is a fairly perceptible location you can judge laterally with high precision, too. The sight blade is against the white part of the target (except at that tangent point), so good contrast. But the little gap between the sight and the bull winking open and closed makes your shaking obvious, which makes it tempting to grab at the best instant, which is doomed to failure!

There's also something called a sub-6 hold, which I don't understand yet.


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Re: Center hold or six o'clock hold for Bullseye?

#24 Post by Marlene » Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:32 am

Sub six is same as six, except you visually measure the gap between sight blade and target rather than making them touch. I switch between six and sub six depending on light conditions, although I generally call what I do “six” whether I’m holding with a tiny gap or touching the black.
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Re: Center hold or six o'clock hold for Bullseye?

#25 Post by AndyH » Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:04 pm

...and if we're shooting pistols with fixed sights, we hold where we have to so that the hole in the paper is in the right place?
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