brass record keeping

1
OK, I have a confession: For the first few months I was keeping track of which cases had been used in which previous batches of reloads, but after a while I gave up and I'm not tracking how many times a case has been fired or at what pressure, just sorting by headstamp for those in which I have anything other than Starline. I'm loading .357 mag, .44 mag, 10 mm and 32-20, cautiously for the 32-20 and from starting to near-max in the higher pressure calibers.

I have been measuring the case heads of at least some of each batch of fired brass, and haven't seen any that have changed. I do have some muffin-topped primers from all but the 32-20, but just rounded by a few thousandths, except one WW SP from a 16 gr 2400 under 125 gr plated bullet, which came out flattened out to 0.190" with sharper corners (weirdly, none of the 17 grain rounds looked like that).

So am I cruising for a bruising, or do you just watch for distressed brass and lump all the empties together in a bag?
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Re: brass record keeping

3
Fukshot wrote:Does handgun brass wear out?
Yes, but you really have to work at it. I have found that nickle plated brass to be the worst. With my stash anything that is not starline is older than most of the members of this club.
"Hillary Clinton is the finest, bravest, kindest, the most wonderful person I've ever known in my whole life" Raymond Shaw

Re: brass record keeping

5
Fukshot wrote:I have a bunch of .38 headstamped 68, 69 and 70. Still works fine.

I'd expect neck cracking to come up on .32-20 faster than other things.
I have had nickle plated +p 38 brass split right down the side from seating full wadcutters. I've had a few case mouth splits years ago from belling the case mouth and crimping to tight that had over worked the case. I now use the absolute minimum bell and a moderate crimp and they last a very long time.
"Hillary Clinton is the finest, bravest, kindest, the most wonderful person I've ever known in my whole life" Raymond Shaw

Re: brass record keeping

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eelj wrote:
Fukshot wrote:I have a bunch of .38 headstamped 68, 69 and 70. Still works fine.

I'd expect neck cracking to come up on .32-20 faster than other things.
I have had nickle plated +p 38 brass split right down the side from seating full wadcutters. I've had a few case mouth splits years ago from belling the case mouth and crimping to tight that had over worked the case. I now use the absolute minimum bell and a moderate crimp and they last a very long time.
I've never had luck with the nickel plated stuff over time. It seems to be more susceptible to cracking.

Re: brass record keeping

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eelj wrote:
Fukshot wrote:I have a bunch of .38 headstamped 68, 69 and 70. Still works fine.

I'd expect neck cracking to come up on .32-20 faster than other things.
I have had nickle plated +p 38 brass split right down the side from seating full wadcutters. I've had a few case mouth splits years ago from belling the case mouth and crimping to tight that had over worked the case. I now use the absolute minimum bell and a moderate crimp and they last a very long time.
I go through the .32-20 a little slower than the others. I'm also trying to be minimal on the flare, and especially the crimp on those. I just barely take down the flare. There's not going to be any bullet pulling with my mild loads, I think.

With the heavier revolver cartridges, I do crimp a bit more enthusiastically with the slower powders. I'm not using H110/W296, which I get the idea is the worst from the standpoint of balky ignition, so maybe I'm overdoing it. I should do an experiment on that, but who has the time? Anyway, my skills are so clunky that unless it leads to a stuck bullet, no variation in burning is going to be affecting my accuracy.

Thanks, sounds like I just need to keep half an eye out for cracking.
IMR4227: Zero to 900 in 0.001 seconds

I'm only killing paper and my self-esteem.

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Re: brass record keeping

8
Forgot to add: Since I bought 500 .44 cases with the intent of reselling one or two hundred locally to defray the shipping cost, but haven't done that yet, I have tons of virgin .44 brass.

I bought a back issue of Handloader with an article on +P "Redhawk-only" loads for the .44 magnum. If I succumb to the temptation to try a few rounds of what you might call .434 Cassull, I'll use new cases and fill in the headstamp with red nail polish, so I know to use those for target loads only in the future. I wonder if the nail polish will survive the firing?
IMR4227: Zero to 900 in 0.001 seconds

I'm only killing paper and my self-esteem.

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Re: brass record keeping

9
I pay attention when I have hotter loads but mostly out of curiosity to the effects on brass. I only have 100 pieces of brass for 45-70 so I pay close attention to how its holding up partly because its a new caliber for me and I'm looking for any feedback.

I've worn out 44 special but I think that was from when I first started and I tended to over-expand. Now I just bump it enough to fit the bullet in snug and crimp.
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Re: brass record keeping

10
Buck13 wrote:Forgot to add: Since I bought 500 .44 cases with the intent of reselling one or two hundred locally to defray the shipping cost, but haven't done that yet, I have tons of virgin .44 brass.

I bought a back issue of Handloader with an article on +P "Redhawk-only" loads for the .44 magnum. If I succumb to the temptation to try a few rounds of what you might call .434 Cassull, I'll use new cases and fill in the headstamp with red nail polish, so I know to use those for target loads only in the future. I wonder if the nail polish will survive the firing?
What will be interesting is how many times you can shoot the loads in one session before the web between the thumb and trigger finger spits open and bleeds all over the gun. The best I have ever been able to fire is 40 then I have noticed the gun gets slippery.
"Hillary Clinton is the finest, bravest, kindest, the most wonderful person I've ever known in my whole life" Raymond Shaw

Re: brass record keeping

11
eelj wrote:
Buck13 wrote:Forgot to add: Since I bought 500 .44 cases with the intent of reselling one or two hundred locally to defray the shipping cost, but haven't done that yet, I have tons of virgin .44 brass.

I bought a back issue of Handloader with an article on +P "Redhawk-only" loads for the .44 magnum. If I succumb to the temptation to try a few rounds of what you might call .434 Cassull, I'll use new cases and fill in the headstamp with red nail polish, so I know to use those for target loads only in the future. I wonder if the nail polish will survive the firing?
What will be interesting is how many times you can shoot the loads in one session before the web between the thumb and trigger finger spits open and bleeds all over the gun. The best I have ever been able to fire is 40 then I have noticed the gun gets slippery.
Novices.
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Puffing up is no substitute for smarts but it's a common home remedy

Re: brass record keeping

12
eelj wrote:
Buck13 wrote:Forgot to add: Since I bought 500 .44 cases with the intent of reselling one or two hundred locally to defray the shipping cost, but haven't done that yet, I have tons of virgin .44 brass.

I bought a back issue of Handloader with an article on +P "Redhawk-only" loads for the .44 magnum. If I succumb to the temptation to try a few rounds of what you might call .434 Cassull, I'll use new cases and fill in the headstamp with red nail polish, so I know to use those for target loads only in the future. I wonder if the nail polish will survive the firing?
What will be interesting is how many times you can shoot the loads in one session before the web between the thumb and trigger finger spits open and bleeds all over the gun. The best I have ever been able to fire is 40 then I have noticed the gun gets slippery.
With that much powder in each case, I'm too stingy to shoot more than 20 per day.

Shooting near-max (SAAMI) loads of 250 and 300 grain bullets a few sessions back, I did get a little blister on the web of my thumb. After that I stuck my fingerless bike gloves in my range bag, since this time of year I wear either ski gloves or leather work gloves when cycling, depending on the weather. Solved that problem, at least until July when I'll need to put them back in the bike gear pile.
IMR4227: Zero to 900 in 0.001 seconds

I'm only killing paper and my self-esteem.

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Re: brass record keeping

14
Buck13 wrote:Forgot to add: Since I bought 500 .44 cases with the intent of reselling one or two hundred locally to defray the shipping cost, but haven't done that yet, I have tons of virgin .44 brass.
If that's .44 Mag, I could use a couple hundred until production gets caught back up. hint hint :wavecry:

Re: brass record keeping

16
I neglected to say in the OP: my motivation for this question was rereading my Lyman 49th ed. manual section on case inspection. In terms of case life, they claim that .357 and .44 Magnums may begin to fail after five loadings! Although I'm not tracking it carefully, I think some of my .357 brass is reaching that state, so that sparked my concern.

That seems very low for a straight-walled case. I'd have to recheck, but I think they claim the same lifetime for belted magnum rifle cases.

They have a picture of a handgun case with a longitudinal split about half the length of the case (the middle half, not starting at the mouth). I'm pretty sure it is a .45 Colt: the rim is small; the extractor groove (or whatever that's called on a sixgun cartridge) looks small, suggesting the case is big; and the length of the case is about 3 times the diameter. Maybe abusing those with "Ruger-only" loads is a good way to split cases?
IMR4227: Zero to 900 in 0.001 seconds

I'm only killing paper and my self-esteem.

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Re: brass record keeping

17
Fukshot wrote:
Buck13 wrote:Forgot to add: Since I bought 500 .44 cases with the intent of reselling one or two hundred locally to defray the shipping cost, but haven't done that yet, I have tons of virgin .44 brass.
If that's .44 Mag, I could use a couple hundred until production gets caught back up. hint hint :wavecry:
I've got lots of .44M shells. PM me.
"SF Liberal With A Gun + Free Software Advocate"
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Re: brass record keeping

18
Buck13 wrote:I neglected to say in the OP: my motivation for this question was rereading my Lyman 49th ed. manual section on case inspection. In terms of case life, they claim that .357 and .44 Magnums may begin to fail after five loadings! Although I'm not tracking it carefully, I think some of my .357 brass is reaching that state, so that sparked my concern.

That seems very low for a straight-walled case. I'd have to recheck, but I think they claim the same lifetime for belted magnum rifle cases.

They have a picture of a handgun case with a longitudinal split about half the length of the case (the middle half, not starting at the mouth). I'm pretty sure it is a .45 Colt: the rim is small; the extractor groove (or whatever that's called on a sixgun cartridge) looks small, suggesting the case is big; and the length of the case is about 3 times the diameter. Maybe abusing those with "Ruger-only" loads is a good way to split cases?
Much of that has to do with the chamber dimensions of the individual cylinders. If you have generous chambers the brass gets work hardend from the sizing and will split length wise. If you have high quality revolvers that should not be a problem.
"Hillary Clinton is the finest, bravest, kindest, the most wonderful person I've ever known in my whole life" Raymond Shaw

Re: brass record keeping

19
It also can be a bad lot of brass. I had that happen with the Super Redhawk and a certain run of R-P .45 Colt brass. These were SAAMI-spec, SAA-friendly loads. I know it was the brass because it was only the R-P cases, and all my .45 Colt brass has about the same amount of firings on it (I rotate the lots).
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Re: brass record keeping

20
Fukshot wrote:Does handgun brass wear out?
I recently noticed what looks like a ring around the base of my nickel coated .45 colt brass I was using for Ruger only loads after only a couple of firings. It's pretty subtle and I can't tell if it is actually a mark from the sizing die or a sign of stress (it is not (yet) the bright ring that Lyman says is associated with overworked brass) but to be safe I have now relegated it to the Trail Boss, cowboy loads. I'll have to keep an eye on it and see if it gets worse.
For all the compasses in all the world, there is but one direction and time is its only measure. -- Tom Stoppard
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Re: brass record keeping

21
JohnGradyCole wrote:
Fukshot wrote:Does handgun brass wear out?
I recently noticed what looks like a ring around the base of my nickel coated .45 colt brass I was using for Ruger only loads after only a couple of firings. It's pretty subtle and I can't tell if it is actually a mark from the sizing die or a sign of stress (it is not (yet) the bright ring that Lyman says is associated with overworked brass) but to be safe I have now relegated it to the Trail Boss, cowboy loads. I'll have to keep an eye on it and see if it gets worse.
Do you know the paperclip trick? It's very useful.

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Re: brass record keeping

23
JohnGradyCole wrote:
Fukshot wrote:Does handgun brass wear out?
I recently noticed what looks like a ring around the base of my nickel coated .45 colt brass I was using for Ruger only loads after only a couple of firings. It's pretty subtle and I can't tell if it is actually a mark from the sizing die or a sign of stress (it is not (yet) the bright ring that Lyman says is associated with overworked brass) but to be safe I have now relegated it to the Trail Boss, cowboy loads. I'll have to keep an eye on it and see if it gets worse.
Got a picture? Very often, my brass shows a ring from the sizing die if I didn't use the Sooper-Dooper-Extra-Shine-Em-Up (TM) (R) tumbling method.
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Re: brass record keeping

24
CowboyT wrote:
JohnGradyCole wrote:
Fukshot wrote:Does handgun brass wear out?
I recently noticed what looks like a ring around the base of my nickel coated .45 colt brass I was using for Ruger only loads after only a couple of firings. It's pretty subtle and I can't tell if it is actually a mark from the sizing die or a sign of stress (it is not (yet) the bright ring that Lyman says is associated with overworked brass) but to be safe I have now relegated it to the Trail Boss, cowboy loads. I'll have to keep an eye on it and see if it gets worse.
Got a picture? Very often, my brass shows a ring from the sizing die if I didn't use the Sooper-Dooper-Extra-Shine-Em-Up (TM) (R) tumbling method.
I'm pretty sure having looked at it again that this is what it is, it matches up perfectly with where the sizing die stops right above the shell holder.
For all the compasses in all the world, there is but one direction and time is its only measure. -- Tom Stoppard
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