need .358 147gr wadcutter load for .357mag case

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CDFingers
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need .358 147gr wadcutter load for .357mag case

#1 Post by CDFingers » Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:10 pm

I got a great deal on 500 147gr .358 cast wadcutters. My Speer 13th has the range between 4.5 and 5.1 gr Unique--but for a .38 Special case. What would be the equivalent range for the .357mag case? I ask this because I'm lazy and don't want to clean that 1mm ring of sooty grunge out of my guns, as I want them for .357mag mainly. Come to think of it, I don't think I can scrounge up 50 .38 cases--though I have scads of .357's.

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Re: need .358 147gr wadcutter load for .357mag case

#2 Post by eelj » Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:33 pm

Describe the bullets characteristics, what I do because the bullet I cast has a crimping groove is use the same 3.3gr charge of Bullseye for my wives 357 as I do for my 38. What I do though is seat the wadcutter flush with the case mouth. In the 38 I seat to the crimp groove. I have a chrony now but have not had a chance to use it because of the weather, that is something I would like to test, from the way they shoot and the accuracy attained I see no difference. I would like to see what the velocity is though.
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Re: need .358 147gr wadcutter load for .357mag case

#3 Post by PiratePenguin » Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:35 pm

Not in Lyman's, not at Alliant website.

I have a PDF of a 2005 Alliant guide that has a 148gr LWC, but the values are lower than what Speer has - max 3.3 gr for .38 Spc (815 fps). Max 6.4 gr for magnum (1465 fps)

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Re: need .358 147gr wadcutter load for .357mag case

#4 Post by eelj » Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:47 pm

Unfortunately there is a derth of info on target loads for any magnum case. My experience has taught me that you can use the special data and if you see excessive smoke on the case just bump up the charge a little bit. Because of the greater space in the case you will get lower velocities in the mag case than the special case. I have never had very good luck with unique with wadcutters in the past so I have used bullseye exclusively.
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Re: need .358 147gr wadcutter load for .357mag case

#5 Post by shinzen » Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:58 pm

Hmm. Some data available for 158's in Speer #14, but that's about the best I can dig up.
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Re: need .358 147gr wadcutter load for .357mag case

#6 Post by Fukshot » Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:12 pm

I'm with eelj on all counts here.

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Re: need .358 147gr wadcutter load for .357mag case

#7 Post by swissdog » Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:50 pm

CDFingers wrote:I got a great deal on 500 147gr .358 cast wadcutters. My Speer 13th has the range between 4.5 and 5.1 gr Unique--but for a .38 Special case. What would be the equivalent range for the .357mag case? I ask this because I'm lazy and don't want to clean that 1mm ring of sooty grunge out of my guns, as I want them for .357mag mainly. Come to think of it, I don't think I can scrounge up 50 .38 cases--though I have scads of .357's.

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Is this a deal that others can get in on, or a one-off? :D

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Re: need .358 147gr wadcutter load for .357mag case

#8 Post by eelj » Mon Mar 17, 2014 3:02 pm

One other thing CD are these hollow base wadcutters?
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Re: need .358 147gr wadcutter load for .357mag case

#9 Post by Simmer down » Mon Mar 17, 2014 3:20 pm

The Hodgdon site has info for 357mag in146 and 148g lead WC. No Unique though.

You can't have 148s in CA? Only 147?
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Re: need .358 147gr wadcutter load for .357mag case

#10 Post by shinzen » Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:03 pm

Doh. Simmer, I didn't even think to check 148's. Lee shows a starting load of 3.3gr. However, if someone has Lee's Modern reloading around (2nd edition is what's showing) please verify. Loaddata.com shows a starting of 3.3 up to a max of 6.4, but it also shows 3.3 as a max. 775 fps/10,000psi at 3.3, 1465/33,800 for 6.4. Not indicating plated or jacketed, but it's also not showing lead, so verification from a physical manual is recommended. Haven't seen data show up like this before.
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Re: need .358 147gr wadcutter load for .357mag case

#11 Post by Fukshot » Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:10 pm

The hollow base question is critical here.

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Re: need .358 147gr wadcutter load for .357mag case

#12 Post by CDFingers » Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:11 pm

swissdog wrote:Is this a deal that others can get in on, or a one-off? :D
Funny story. We go into an antique store, buncha lamps and stuff my wife likes. Over in the corner I spy with my little eye a box the size and shape of I have for 500 JHP's . "Whatchya got there?" says I. "Some old guy's stuff." "Give ya twenty bucks." "Twenty five." "Done."

They appear to be moly coated, flat bottom with a bevel. Wadcutter top.

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I'm going down for a shooting day with my son while a buncha lady stuff happens at my house. He has all kinds of handgun training, so I'm making 100 rounds for the GP100. I have some rifle loads, too, so we're going to have some fun.

It looks like I will make some with 5 gr Unique. This is a guess. How does that sound?

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Re: need .358 147gr wadcutter load for .357mag case

#13 Post by eelj » Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:27 pm

CDFingers wrote:
swissdog wrote:Is this a deal that others can get in on, or a one-off? :D
Funny story. We go into an antique store, buncha lamps and stuff my wife likes. Over in the corner I spy with my little eye a box the size and shape of I have for 500 JHP's . "Whatchya got there?" says I. "Some old guy's stuff." "Give ya twenty bucks." "Twenty five." "Done."

They appear to be moly coated, flat bottom with a bevel. Wadcutter top.

Image

I'm going down for a shooting day with my son while a buncha lady stuff happens at my house. He has all kinds of handgun training, so I'm making 100 rounds for the GP100. I have some rifle loads, too, so we're going to have some fun.

It looks like I will make some with 5 gr Unique. This is a guess. How does that sound?

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Start lower, 4.5 and don't load all 100 with that charge, 10 at the most and another 10 at 4.6 etc. etc. they look tumble lubed. Good luck. If they don't work that well it is probably the powder.
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Re: need .358 147gr wadcutter load for .357mag case

#14 Post by PiratePenguin » Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:35 pm

That looks a lot like the #358091 in the Lyman book, which is listed as 150 gr. Maybe these came out light in the casting?
For .38 special it gives a range of 3.7-4.2gr of Unique. No Magnum loads.

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Re: need .358 147gr wadcutter load for .357mag case

#15 Post by eelj » Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:54 pm

PiratePenguin wrote:That looks a lot like the #358091 in the Lyman book, which is listed as 150 gr. Maybe these came out light in the casting?
For .38 special it gives a range of 3.7-4.2gr of Unique. No Magnum loads.
Glad you posted, I looked at my Lyman cast manual and the show your load and also a saeco 148 at 3.5-4.2. CD since you are going to use 357 brass I would work up from somewhere between 3.8 and 4.2 and seat them to the crimp groove.
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Re: need .358 147gr wadcutter load for .357mag case

#16 Post by CDFingers » Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:53 am

The proper thing to do would be to make a dozen at 4.0 then chrony them. I have access to an indoor range Wednesday night. I want to keep them below 900 fps for non-leading. That would give me Thursday to make 100. With the longer case than the .38, I'm thinking 4.0 will be quite slow, but it'll get out of the barrel and out to 30 feet pretty reliably. Thoughts?

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Re: need .358 147gr wadcutter load for .357mag case

#17 Post by Fukshot » Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:59 am

Those moly coated things can be pushed very hard without leading.

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Re: need .358 147gr wadcutter load for .357mag case

#18 Post by CDFingers » Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:02 pm

Right. I proposed 5 gr before. Dang. I should really take the time to work up a load. Just for Friday, maybe I should split the diff and go with 4.5gr?

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Re: need .358 147gr wadcutter load for .357mag case

#19 Post by CDFingers » Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:01 am

Made 50 yesterday. I'll make another 50 today. That'll give me 100 with which to learn groovy techniques from my son. I'm going with 5 grains of Unique under the 148 grainers (I weighed three...). I'm going quick using two .3 cc Lee Dippers--.7 was too big. I'll make a .6 cc dipper from an old case. I'll also make one that throws 8.5 grains for my .45. The dippers go fast. I weigh about every fifth one. All help and messages greatly appreciated. Unless I don't post on Saturday... :laugh:

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Re: need .358 147gr wadcutter load for .357mag case

#20 Post by CDFingers » Sun Apr 06, 2014 8:45 pm

I got out to the range today and chronied some of these 5 grain, dipped rounds. I probably shot 40 of 'em, but only chronied five of them. They averaged out to 940 fps; slowest was 912 and fastest was 969, so there's variation. But I hit what I aimed at, mostly soda bottles, my favorite prey. Very pleasant to shoot. I'll call them my mouse loads. I still have some left for another range trip.

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Re: need .358 147gr wadcutter load for .357mag case

#21 Post by wlewisiii » Sun Apr 06, 2014 8:50 pm

If it's still of use, there's a good thread on the topic here:

http://www.targettalk.org/viewtopic.php?t=29576
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Re: need .358 147gr wadcutter load for .357mag case

#22 Post by CDFingers » Sun Apr 06, 2014 8:54 pm

That thread had some good info in it. Even though they're moly coated, I got a bit of leading in there, not bad. These may be a bit hot according to that thread, nearly 1K fps. I'll see how tough it is to clean out.

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Re: need .358 147gr wadcutter load for .357mag case

#23 Post by eelj » Sun Apr 06, 2014 10:36 pm

I agree with the first part of that thread, CD you are about 200fps to fast for that bullet. Look for some bullseye powder and until you find it drop the unique charge. Out to 50yds I can't think of a better bullet than the wadcutter for putting holes in stuff destined for recycling. I doubt you will have leading at 750fps.
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