Ok, ya'll crushed my dreams of a 9mm magnum (but saved me from spending $1,000 on a gun that wouldn't do what I thought it could).
Anyway, looking at getting the 357. My local steel range doesn't allow magnum ammo, so I'll have to load specials when I shoot steel and 357 when I shoot paper.
For those of you who load both, how do you switch between rounds? Two sets of dies?
I have a set of old non-carbide dies for 38/357. I was thinking of buying a set of carbide dies for 357 and using the antique ones for the specials. I have a 6 position press, so I could have all the dies set-up.
Re: Switching between 38spc and 357...how do you do it
2I would just load .357 cases to .38 level but if they actually check, two sets of dies would be a whole lot easier.
Having them on the same turret seems like a fuckup waiting to happen, though.
Having them on the same turret seems like a fuckup waiting to happen, though.
Re: Switching between 38spc and 357...how do you do it
3Yeah, I was thinking that I'd have to paint the dies or something not to screw it up...
Maybe I should just have a bag of "checked 38 spc" and then bring my 357 powderpuffs in under those.
Maybe I should just have a bag of "checked 38 spc" and then bring my 357 powderpuffs in under those.
Re: Switching between 38spc and 357...how do you do it
4I use the same dies for both, all it takes is adjusting the case mouth expander die and the seating and crimp die lower for the 38. If you show up with 357 cases and claim they are loaded mild they might not believe you and insist on 38 only. By the way my dies are RCBS marked 38/357 and the Dillon dies for my SD press.
Re: Switching between 38spc and 357...how do you do it
5As eej posted , I use Lee dies for both and just change the setting. It takes seconds.
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" Ben Franklin
Beto in wisconsin
Beto in wisconsin
Re: Switching between 38spc and 357...how do you do it
6Have dummy rounds of both and you pop one in and lower the die to fit and Bingo. You're good to go.beto wrote:As eej posted , I use Lee dies for both and just change the setting. It takes seconds.
Puffing up is no substitute for smarts but it's a common home remedy
Re: Switching between 38spc and 357...how do you do it
7You use the same die set for both. The only difference is adjusting the bullet seating and crimp to accommodate the shorter special cases...maybe a few minutes at most.
The same can be said for loading .44 Special/.44 Magnum, .45 Colt/.454 Casull/.460 S&W, .45-70/.45-90, and .40 S&W/10mm Auto.
The same can be said for loading .44 Special/.44 Magnum, .45 Colt/.454 Casull/.460 S&W, .45-70/.45-90, and .40 S&W/10mm Auto.
Re: Switching between 38spc and 357...how do you do it
8Thanks! Do you recommend a 3 die set or a 4?
Re: Switching between 38spc and 357...how do you do it
9I say 4. You'll want to be able to crimp a heavy .357 load properly.senorgrand wrote:Thanks! Do you recommend a 3 die set or a 4?
Re: Switching between 38spc and 357...how do you do it
10I have a 4 die set for 38spl/357 but I read someplace (in the forum elsewhere?) that crimping was not necessary. I would go with 4 and crimp until it is shown that uncrimoed rounds do not loosen and the rate of the powder burn is not effected. I crimp all my 357 rounds but plan to cautiously experiment with un crimped rounds.
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" Ben Franklin
Beto in wisconsin
Beto in wisconsin
Re: Switching between 38spc and 357...how do you do it
12Don't crimp. You'll get better results with less work and working of the brass.
Try it and see for yourself.
Try it and see for yourself.
Hell is where:
The British are the chefs
The Swiss are the lovers
The French are the mechanics
The Italians make everything run on time
And the Germans are the police
The British are the chefs
The Swiss are the lovers
The French are the mechanics
The Italians make everything run on time
And the Germans are the police
Re: Switching between 38spc and 357...how do you do it
13Tell it to my 300 grainers with aa#9.beaurrr wrote:Don't crimp. You'll get better results with less work and working of the brass.
Try it and see for yourself.
I coul only load 2 at a time
Re: Switching between 38spc and 357...how do you do it
14I meant that for run of the mill 38/357 loads.....
Hell is where:
The British are the chefs
The Swiss are the lovers
The French are the mechanics
The Italians make everything run on time
And the Germans are the police
The British are the chefs
The Swiss are the lovers
The French are the mechanics
The Italians make everything run on time
And the Germans are the police
Re: Switching between 38spc and 357...how do you do it
15Actually, I have to amend my results. It depends on powder and my old crimped rounds weren't crimped enough for H-110.beaurrr wrote:Don't crimp. You'll get better results with less work and working of the brass.
Try it and see for yourself.
When I did that last comparison, the rounds I loaded with H-110 severely underperformed compared to 4229 and the cases were sooty inside and out. I gave the leftover rounds a sixth of a turn more crimp and bam, ~200 fps higher average velocity, less variation in velocity and a cleaner burn.
Results very from powder to powder but don't write crimping off completely.
Re: Switching between 38spc and 357...how do you do it
16Thanks for all the info!
I will probably buy the 4 die set and if I don't need to crimp a load, I won't. At least I'll have the option.
I will probably buy the 4 die set and if I don't need to crimp a load, I won't. At least I'll have the option.
Re: Switching between 38spc and 357...how do you do it
17Looks like everyone has already given input, and you're all set to go Senor. To add late info, I have two sets of dies for a single stage lee press. This is for quick change and convenience, but I think you could get away with one set of dies and a few dummy reference rounds so you can "quickly" adjust the bullet seating die when switching between 357 and 38 special. If you hate having to sort out two sets of brass, then I'd just stick with light 357 loads using a fast powder.
As for crimping... yes I still do it. I probably should create a small batch of uncrimped loads and see how they perform as beaurr suggested. I agree though that 38 special probably doesn't need any crimping at all. I mainly use the crimp die as a post-resizer (a final resize, to ensure proper chambering and fit), but I've yet to find any 38 special needing the extra resize step. They all slide into the crimp die like butter.
As for crimping... yes I still do it. I probably should create a small batch of uncrimped loads and see how they perform as beaurr suggested. I agree though that 38 special probably doesn't need any crimping at all. I mainly use the crimp die as a post-resizer (a final resize, to ensure proper chambering and fit), but I've yet to find any 38 special needing the extra resize step. They all slide into the crimp die like butter.
Re: Switching between 38spc and 357...how do you do it
18I dunno: unless they actually inspect the ammo you use at your local range, you can just load .357 cases down. Unless the round goes super sonic, they'll never know. If you keep it to like 1000 fps, it will be as quiet as a .38. No need for extra expense.
CDFingers
CDFingers
Crazy cat peekin' through a lace bandana
like a one-eyed Cheshire, like a diamond-eyed Jack
like a one-eyed Cheshire, like a diamond-eyed Jack
Re: Switching between 38spc and 357...how do you do it
19I can almost guarantee that no 38 special load is going to need a crimp, although, like Viking alluded, the powder may be the factor that dictates the need for crimping. I would note that H110 behaves unlike other powders.
As for 357 and crimping; I've maxed out the loads for IMR 4227 (17 grains, compressed, with mag primer), and those loads were uncrimped and there was zero bullet pull. Anecdotally at least, I can say the accuracy was 'very good', for whatever that's worth.
I readily concede that since I do not have a chronometer, I am not able to conduct this experiment properly. Clearly, just because the bullet doesn't pull does not necessarily mean that velocity and standard deviations are similar between otherwise identical crimped and uncrimped examples. And without a chronometer, I'll never know.
My point, I guess, is that I suspect that the alleged need and/or benefits of crimping revolver rounds, in general, is probably grossly over stated.
ps. I apologize for the threadjack, SG.
As for 357 and crimping; I've maxed out the loads for IMR 4227 (17 grains, compressed, with mag primer), and those loads were uncrimped and there was zero bullet pull. Anecdotally at least, I can say the accuracy was 'very good', for whatever that's worth.
I readily concede that since I do not have a chronometer, I am not able to conduct this experiment properly. Clearly, just because the bullet doesn't pull does not necessarily mean that velocity and standard deviations are similar between otherwise identical crimped and uncrimped examples. And without a chronometer, I'll never know.
My point, I guess, is that I suspect that the alleged need and/or benefits of crimping revolver rounds, in general, is probably grossly over stated.
ps. I apologize for the threadjack, SG.
Hell is where:
The British are the chefs
The Swiss are the lovers
The French are the mechanics
The Italians make everything run on time
And the Germans are the police
The British are the chefs
The Swiss are the lovers
The French are the mechanics
The Italians make everything run on time
And the Germans are the police
Re: Switching between 38spc and 357...how do you do it
20Good info!
I may just reload for 357, as I found bulk new Remington SJHP 38 +p for about 30 cents a round at LAX.
I don't have a lot of time to reload right now anyway and these rounds would be great for the LCR I'm getting and should do very well on steel coming out of the TRR8.
I'll reserve the handloads for 357. I will probably just buy some spray case lube and play with my steel dies I have for now. If I find I need a crimp, I'll buy a 4 die set.
Anyone got recommendations on spray lube?
I may just reload for 357, as I found bulk new Remington SJHP 38 +p for about 30 cents a round at LAX.
I don't have a lot of time to reload right now anyway and these rounds would be great for the LCR I'm getting and should do very well on steel coming out of the TRR8.
I'll reserve the handloads for 357. I will probably just buy some spray case lube and play with my steel dies I have for now. If I find I need a crimp, I'll buy a 4 die set.
Anyone got recommendations on spray lube?
Re: Switching between 38spc and 357...how do you do it
21You can also just buy a spacer washer to fit under the seating die and swap that out when you go between the two calibers. That's a very easy and cheap solution, especially compared to resetting seating and crimp each time.
Frankly, I just gave up reloading .38. I just take .357 cases and load them to .38 standards. That way I don't have to deal with a carbon ring and, most importantly, it makes it way, way easier to sort brass. I'm also selling off any remaining factory .38 loads I have just so the brass doesn't contaminate my gear; it's so damn tedious, and it's already annoying enough to sort .460 Rowland from .45 ACP!
Frankly, I just gave up reloading .38. I just take .357 cases and load them to .38 standards. That way I don't have to deal with a carbon ring and, most importantly, it makes it way, way easier to sort brass. I'm also selling off any remaining factory .38 loads I have just so the brass doesn't contaminate my gear; it's so damn tedious, and it's already annoying enough to sort .460 Rowland from .45 ACP!
(.22 TCM - 9x19 - .357 Mag - 10mm - .45 ACP - .44 Mag - 7.62x39 - .308 Winchester - 7.62x54R - 12ga)
Re: Switching between 38spc and 357...how do you do it
22I use Hornady OneShot. Works great!senorgrand wrote:
Anyone got recommendations on spray lube?
Re: Switching between 38spc and 357...how do you do it
23Yeah, it sounds like a PITA. I think the only way I would sort is if one type of brass, say 38 spc, was in nickle and rhe other in brass.
But I think I'll just buy some of this Remington 38 +p instead of messing with 38s.
But I think I'll just buy some of this Remington 38 +p instead of messing with 38s.
Re: Switching between 38spc and 357...how do you do it
24Added to my Amazon wishlish. Thanks!!dcramer64 wrote:I use Hornady OneShot. Works great!senorgrand wrote:
Anyone got recommendations on spray lube?
Re: Switching between 38spc and 357...how do you do it
25+1 on the OneShot; that's the only lube I use. One can usually lasts in the neighborhood of 1k-1.5k rounds, depending on how I'm doing it (applying it to the die vs. applying it to the case, as on rifle rounds).senorgrand wrote:Added to my Amazon wishlish. Thanks!!dcramer64 wrote:I use Hornady OneShot. Works great!senorgrand wrote:
Anyone got recommendations on spray lube?
(.22 TCM - 9x19 - .357 Mag - 10mm - .45 ACP - .44 Mag - 7.62x39 - .308 Winchester - 7.62x54R - 12ga)