Whenever someone uses the term 'clip' instead of 'magazine' when talking about guns, it is almost a rule that a bunch of gun owners will jump on that as an example of utter gun ignorance.
But looking at books and articles from the 60's and earlier, the term 'clip' seems to be used for anything that holds rounds, including what we today call magazines. A 1911 had a 7 round clip.
So is it obsolete, but historically correct to call a magazine a clip?
Re: Clip -vs- Magazine nomenclature
2Improper terminology has been being used for a long time, but that doesn't make it right. If you look at the nomenclature used by the manufacturers and what is in the manuals, you will see (at least in most cases) the right words used to describe a given item.
Every one you've ever met or will ever meet, knows something you don't. -Neil DeGrasse Tyson
Anti-Gravity Activist
Black Lives Matter
Anti-Gravity Activist
Black Lives Matter
Re: Clip -vs- Magazine nomenclature
3It's a silly, distracting debate.
People have been wrongly calling them clips for decades. It's not going to stop, you can but politely correct them and go on with the discussion.
People have been wrongly calling them clips for decades. It's not going to stop, you can but politely correct them and go on with the discussion.
Re: Clip -vs- Magazine nomenclature
4Tomayto, tomahto.
Gun enthusiast will use anything to look more knowledgeable about something at the gun counter or range.
I have a friend that refuses to call american cheese, cheese. He's technically right, but most people will still call it cheese.
Gun enthusiast will use anything to look more knowledgeable about something at the gun counter or range.
I have a friend that refuses to call american cheese, cheese. He's technically right, but most people will still call it cheese.
Re: Clip -vs- Magazine nomenclature
5Could it be a regional thing, like British -vs- American English?Marrok wrote:Tomayto, tomahto.
We had a good laugh the other day when I said to a beautician friend of my wife "How do you like the new Beauty Parlor that you work at now?" Her reply: "OK Grampa... it's a 'Salon', and I like it there!"
I just mention it because it might not be ignorance, just an older generations way of speaking because that's what the magazines were called in the past?
Re: Clip -vs- Magazine nomenclature
6And speaking of debates, I have a modern book on the Mini-14, where the author says "The M1 Garand can be (arguably) called the first assault rifle."
That statement would cause heads to explode on some forums.
That statement would cause heads to explode on some forums.
Re: Clip -vs- Magazine nomenclature
7How many know the difference between Nitrate and Nitrite? Sulfate and Sulfite? How about the the distinction between Ferrous and Ferric?
How many really care?
Nomenclature only matters to those who give a poop about the subject to begin with; everyone else is disinterested.
We've a wingnut out here who, following Aurora, Colorado, was given the opportunity to a television debate over related issues with a representative of an organization called Cease Fire Oregon. He spent nearly all of his allotted time screaming about nomenclature...
and came off conveying that he is a lunatic and implying that anyone who owns a fire arm is an unstable idiot.
How many really care?
Nomenclature only matters to those who give a poop about the subject to begin with; everyone else is disinterested.
We've a wingnut out here who, following Aurora, Colorado, was given the opportunity to a television debate over related issues with a representative of an organization called Cease Fire Oregon. He spent nearly all of his allotted time screaming about nomenclature...
and came off conveying that he is a lunatic and implying that anyone who owns a fire arm is an unstable idiot.
Subliterate Buffooery of the right...
Literate Ignorance of the left...
We Are So Screwed
Literate Ignorance of the left...
We Are So Screwed
Re: Clip -vs- Magazine nomenclature
8The Internet and World Wide Web ("the Web") are two different things, but people in casual conversation use them interchangeably.
However, if you are in charge of regulating these things, I expect you to be precise about these terms.
However, if you are in charge of regulating these things, I expect you to be precise about these terms.
Re: Clip -vs- Magazine nomenclature
9The M1 carbine maybe, I prefer Assault rifle when describing ARs and other rifles in that class to "modern sporting rifles". I know people use them for competition and a tiny portion in circulation are used for crime but most of them are used for looking at oneself in the mirror holding it.Awake wrote:And speaking of debates, I have a modern book on the Mini-14, where the author says "The M1 Garand can be (arguably) called the first assault rifle."
That statement would cause heads to explode on some forums.
"Hillary Clinton is the finest, bravest, kindest, the most wonderful person I've ever known in my whole life" Raymond Shaw
Re: Clip -vs- Magazine nomenclature
10It's been said here as a matter of fact.Awake wrote:And speaking of debates, I have a modern book on the Mini-14, where the author says "The M1 Garand can be (arguably) called the first assault rifle."
That statement would cause heads to explode on some forums.
There is that. And of course this:senorgrand wrote:The Internet and World Wide Web ("the Web") are two different things, but people in casual conversation use them interchangeably.
However, if you are in charge of regulating these things, I expect you to be precise about these terms.
Re: Clip -vs- Magazine nomenclature
11Meh. It follows certain logic. Clips clip rounds together.
sbɐɯ ʎʇıɔɐdɐɔ pɹɐpuɐʇs ɟo ןןnɟ ǝɟɐs
ɯɯ6 bdd ɹǝɥʇןɐʍ
13ʞ
"ǝuıqɹɐɔ 1ɐ4ɯ" dɯɐʇsןןoɹ --- ɯoɔos0269ǝן ʇןoɔ
"ǝuıqɹɐɔ ʇuǝɯǝɔɹoɟuǝ ʍɐן sʇןoɔ" dɯɐʇsןןoɹ --- 0269ǝן ʇןoɔ
(béɟ) 59-pɯɐ
ɯɯ6 bdd ɹǝɥʇןɐʍ
13ʞ
"ǝuıqɹɐɔ 1ɐ4ɯ" dɯɐʇsןןoɹ --- ɯoɔos0269ǝן ʇןoɔ
"ǝuıqɹɐɔ ʇuǝɯǝɔɹoɟuǝ ʍɐן sʇןoɔ" dɯɐʇsןןoɹ --- 0269ǝן ʇןoɔ
(béɟ) 59-pɯɐ
Re: Clip -vs- Magazine nomenclature
12Depending how you define assault rifle, I'd be more inclined to say that the first incarnation of something which meets most of the criteria is the short cartridge (often thought of as pistol caliber) levergun carbine.Awake wrote:And speaking of debates, I have a modern book on the Mini-14, where the author says "The M1 Garand can be (arguably) called the first assault rifle."
That statement would cause heads to explode on some forums.
Re: Clip -vs- Magazine nomenclature
14Sturmgewehr-44 was the first one that hit on all the points: intermediate cartridge, select-fire, magazine-fed.
The M2/3 Carbines could be considered assault rifles as well.
The Garand is awesome, but it's really a battle rifle.
The M2/3 Carbines could be considered assault rifles as well.
The Garand is awesome, but it's really a battle rifle.
some days, I just don't English
Re: Clip -vs- Magazine nomenclature
15At the very least, I expect professional journalists who write articles guns and gun laws to know the difference and use correct terminology. I also expect the author of an article about the gourmet cheese industry to know that American cheese isn't cheese.
Re: Clip -vs- Magazine nomenclature
16I think this is the most important point.begemot wrote:At the very least, I expect professional journalists who write articles guns and gun laws to know the difference and use correct terminology.
It's one thing for Joe Public to use gun terminology incorrectly in a casual discussion or letter to the editor, but professional journalists should be held to a higher standard.
Unfortunately, guns are not the only thing, or even the most important thing, that many journalists are dangerously ignorant about (e.g., science, climate, energy, economics, etc. etc.)
"To initiate a war of aggression...is the supreme international crime" - Nuremberg prosecutor Robert Jackson, 1946
Re: Clip -vs- Magazine nomenclature
18Folks that berate new shooters for using the wrong term for a removable storage place for ammo just make me want to kick them. Hard.
In a bacon, egg and cheese sandwich the chicken and cow are involved while the pig is committed.
Re: Clip -vs- Magazine nomenclature
19My brother was an army drill instructor during the '60's, and he still calls 'em "clips". I think to a degree it's a generational thing.
I mentally wince a little when he calls a magazine a clip but I figure he knows what end the bullets come out of and can hit what he's aiming at so I keep my pie hole shut.
I mentally wince a little when he calls a magazine a clip but I figure he knows what end the bullets come out of and can hit what he's aiming at so I keep my pie hole shut.
"il corporativismo è la pietra angolare dello Stato fascista" Translated, this means: "boom-shacka-lacka-lacka,-boom-boom-boom.
Re: Clip -vs- Magazine nomenclature
20Interesting to note that the late '50s and early '60s saw the U.S. military switching from a rifle loaded with clips (M1 Garand) to one loaded with magazines (M14, followed by M16).DoctorB wrote:My brother was an army drill instructor during the '60's, and he still calls 'em "clips".
I wonder if the clip terminology carried over for a few years among drill instructors and others in the military?
"To initiate a war of aggression...is the supreme international crime" - Nuremberg prosecutor Robert Jackson, 1946
Re: Clip -vs- Magazine nomenclature
21Magazine has probably always been the correct term, but magazines were commonly called clips until guns that used magazines instead of clips became the leading form of design.Elmo wrote:Interesting to note that the late '50s and early '60s saw the U.S. military switching from a rifle loaded with clips (M1 Garand) to one loaded with magazines (M14, followed by M16).DoctorB wrote:My brother was an army drill instructor during the '60's, and he still calls 'em "clips".
I wonder if the clip terminology carried over for a few years among drill instructors and others in the military?
What bothers me is if someone, including myself, happen to call a magazine a clip during a conversation, we are immediately dismissed as gun ignoramuses. Same thing for journalists.
Re: Clip -vs- Magazine nomenclature
22I tend to read anything that a reporter puts into the edutainment involving any sort of firearm as 'gun'. The Naval Yard shooting is an excellent case.Awake wrote:Magazine has probably always been the correct term, but magazines were commonly called clips until guns that used magazines instead of clips became the leading form of design.Elmo wrote:Interesting to note that the late '50s and early '60s saw the U.S. military switching from a rifle loaded with clips (M1 Garand) to one loaded with magazines (M14, followed by M16).DoctorB wrote:My brother was an army drill instructor during the '60's, and he still calls 'em "clips".
I wonder if the clip terminology carried over for a few years among drill instructors and others in the military?
What bothers me is if someone, including myself, happen to call a magazine a clip during a conversation, we are immediately dismissed as gun ignoramuses. Same thing for journalists.
In a bacon, egg and cheese sandwich the chicken and cow are involved while the pig is committed.
Re: Clip -vs- Magazine nomenclature
23A clip is usually used to load the magazine of a firearm with ammunition, which is essential to its designed function. Sometimes the magazine is fixed (part of the gun), sometimes they are removable. If you look at say, a 1903, a Mosin, or an SKS, each has a fixed magazine which is loaded using a clip. Similarly, a slide action shotgun has a fixed tubular magazine, although no clips are needed. With an M1 Garand the magazine is essentially just the slot in the receiver which houses the en-bloc clip, and no specific part is labeled "magazine". An AR15 magazine can be loaded using stripper clips, but this is done outside of the rifle (except maybe in Cali), while a vz58 can be fed clips through the breach into a detachable box magazine while it is still attached to the rifle...Awake wrote:Magazine has probably always been the correct term, but magazines were commonly called clips until guns that used magazines instead of clips became the leading form of design.
I can see why it's confusing to many, but learning the proper terminology (or correct vocabulary) can make or break a conversation with regards to clarity or confusion. That said, being a dick about it to those who get it wrong is generally not called for.
Every one you've ever met or will ever meet, knows something you don't. -Neil DeGrasse Tyson
Anti-Gravity Activist
Black Lives Matter
Anti-Gravity Activist
Black Lives Matter
Re: Clip -vs- Magazine nomenclature
24I remember people using "magazine clip" or just "clip" in the late 60's. On the whole , it's a "concrete" and "cement" discussion. Words get used loosely, I don't see getting upset over it very helpful. That said laws should be written with clarity.
Re: Clip -vs- Magazine nomenclature
25I think it is true the terms less well differentiated in the 60s and 70s, but now their proper use has become much more obvious. I will admit that I cringe when people juxtapose the terms these days.