So I rented a Beretta 92 at the range today, and it had failure to feed or failure to eject on every round after the first. The guy at the counter fiddled with it and said he thought the mag lips might be wearing out. So he gave me the Beretta M9; same problem. He thought maybe I was limp-wristing it so we went back to the range. It worked perfectly for him, so he watched me and again it wouldn't feed. He said it didn't look like I was limp-wristing it. I tried it one-handed and it worked perfectly, but as soon as I brought my off hand up and even touched the grip -- failure to feed or eject.
It's obviously me, something weird with my grip or body position, but nothing we could tell. The range guy is an ex-marine and so has a fair amount of experience with the 92 and said he'd never seen anything like it.
So what the hell? Has anyone experienced this or have any ideas?
I switched to the CZ-75 and it ran flawlessly.
Re: Weird Beretta 92 issue
2I had a similar situation renting one time. Wrong mag with wrong gun.
Many of the mags of double-stack, double action pistols are NEARLY identical. Beretta introduced new mags for their new line of pistols and carbines. I believe they are ALMOST the same.
Berettas don't limp wrist. If they did, us armed forces would have gotten sigs, which also don't limp wrist (at least centerfire).
Many of the mags of double-stack, double action pistols are NEARLY identical. Beretta introduced new mags for their new line of pistols and carbines. I believe they are ALMOST the same.
Berettas don't limp wrist. If they did, us armed forces would have gotten sigs, which also don't limp wrist (at least centerfire).
Re: Weird Beretta 92 issue
3Weird. I wonder if you're relaxing your primary hands grip too much when you add the second hand? Relying too much on the squeeze from your support hand or something maybe?
Re: Weird Beretta 92 issue
5This. Even brushing the slide can be enough on a marginal gun to make it unreliable. Some would say this is another argument for revolvers!Fukshot wrote:thumb on slide?
Re: Weird Beretta 92 issue
6Nope. We thought about that. My off-hand is at the base of the grip. My thumb doesn't even reach up to the trigger guard.Fukshot wrote:thumb on slide?
I've shot Berettas before, so I suspect whatever I'm doing isn't something egregious until combined with a range gun, but either way I don't want to buy something that will stop working for me when well-used.
Re: Weird Beretta 92 issue
7I'm telling you, wrong mag. I had a horrible experience, but I could actually get the gun to fire once in awhile.
Re: Weird Beretta 92 issue
8Crappy mags can definitely ruin a gun. By most accounts the big wins with 1911 reliability came with modern (i.e. CMC) magazines moreso than changes in gun design.senorgrand wrote:I'm telling you, wrong mag. I had a horrible experience, but I could actually get the gun to fire once in awhile.
Re: Weird Beretta 92 issue
9Probably, it was a Berretta mag, but could have been an old one. At the very least they were mags that had seen a lot of use in a rental gun. Still, though, it worked for him, and for me when I shot 1-handed.senorgrand wrote:I'm telling you, wrong mag. I had a horrible experience, but I could actually get the gun to fire once in awhile.
I'm thinking it was some combination of factors, no one of which caused a malfunction on its own but when combined led to the disappearance of an airplane.
Re: Weird Beretta 92 issue
10...were you shooting from a grassy knoll?JohnGradyCole wrote:I'm thinking it was some combination of factors, no one of which caused a malfunction on its own but when combined led to the disappearance of an airplane.
"Only voluntary, inspired self-restraint can raise man above the world stream of materialism. Our lives will have to change if we want to save life from self-destruction." ~ Alexander Solzhenitzyn
Re: Weird Beretta 92 issue
11That is weird. Both limp-wristing and magazine problems can cause failures to feed and eject. Limp-wristing is more likely than mag since the range guy didn't have the issue. But he said you weren't visibly limp-wristing. Maybe it's a combination of those two factors in just the right doses that caused it.
Edit: If you were cup and saucering it instead of a thumbs up or forward grip, your support hand may have pushed up the mag, which may magnify mag defects. Wild guessing now.
Edit: If you were cup and saucering it instead of a thumbs up or forward grip, your support hand may have pushed up the mag, which may magnify mag defects. Wild guessing now.
Re: Weird Beretta 92 issue
12You said your support hand was underneath? Did he have the combat thumbs lined up in front of each other hold?
It could be that you were putting some pressure on the magazine from below, just enough to give it fits if it was a poorly fitting or missized mag.
It could be that you were putting some pressure on the magazine from below, just enough to give it fits if it was a poorly fitting or missized mag.
Re: Weird Beretta 92 issue
13Ah, now we might be getting somewhere! My off-hand grip isn't a complete cup-and-saucer, but it is low and my hand does cover the front half of the base of the grip. That would explain why I could shoot it one handed. Interesting.fknauss wrote:You said your support hand was underneath? Did he have the combat thumbs lined up in front of each other hold?
It could be that you were putting some pressure on the magazine from below, just enough to give it fits if it was a poorly fitting or missized mag.
Damn my poor technique. Seems awful finicky and delicatefor a military weapon, but when combined with old mags it could be the culprit.
Re: Weird Beretta 92 issue
14Only poor technique if you it makes you miss your shots. I'd blame this mostly on the magspoor technique
Re: Weird Beretta 92 issue
15This.shinzen wrote:Weird. I wonder if you're relaxing your primary hands grip too much when you add the second hand? Relying too much on the squeeze from your support hand or something maybe?
One handed you are strong arming it, two you are relying on two and not stiff enough. Unless the guy at the range has highspeed camera type eyes, he would be able to see if you are limp wristing it, unless it was EXTREME.
If the mags work in other situations, and the gun works fine in other conditions, it is you. Occams razor...
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Re: Weird Beretta 92 issue
16I have a 92 and had the same problem. I bought some used mags and had ftf on one every time. Rebuilt it and haven't had a problem since. On the contrary, I have a sig
P226 that my wife can't shoot because of her grip. Every other or every third either ftf or FTE. I have shoot a couple of thousand rounds through the gun and have not had a single malfunction. Grip can make an auto loader misbehave.
P226 that my wife can't shoot because of her grip. Every other or every third either ftf or FTE. I have shoot a couple of thousand rounds through the gun and have not had a single malfunction. Grip can make an auto loader misbehave.
Re: Weird Beretta 92 issue
17In my experience, cup and saucer, or anything that approaches cup and saucer, is a prescription for problems...as others have already said, "poor technique".
I believe that Mec-Gar makes the Beretta magazine...yes? They also make the SIG magazines. I have noted issues similar to those in the OP when the magazine spring is installed incorrectly, front to back. While upside down is obvious the front of the spring is a little less so and as it is canted, should it be installed backward, the reverse cant impedes the feeding.
Combine the two and I am certain that the failures will be unavoidable.
I believe that Mec-Gar makes the Beretta magazine...yes? They also make the SIG magazines. I have noted issues similar to those in the OP when the magazine spring is installed incorrectly, front to back. While upside down is obvious the front of the spring is a little less so and as it is canted, should it be installed backward, the reverse cant impedes the feeding.
Combine the two and I am certain that the failures will be unavoidable.
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