This topic just crossed my mind last night. Had nothing else to do, I decided to Google it, and there were few articles about that.
It sums up that with fiasco of their All American 2000 model, they gave up.
They are really the only major gun manufacturer that does not have one.
Can they really survive only on 1911's ?
Even AR-15 is made by so many other companies.
I highly doubt that they have high sales of revolvers, either ( Ruger and S&W are probably out-selling them in this field, espacially S&W ).
So what is going on with Colt ?
Re: Why (only) Colt doesn't make polymer, striker-fired pist
2I don't have a answer to your specific question. Generally though, I would say that Colt has been coasting for years. I've seen very little innovation from them, which is sad.
Hell is where:
The British are the chefs
The Swiss are the lovers
The French are the mechanics
The Italians make everything run on time
And the Germans are the police
The British are the chefs
The Swiss are the lovers
The French are the mechanics
The Italians make everything run on time
And the Germans are the police
Re: Why (only) Colt doesn't make polymer, striker-fired pist
3Little innovation and high prices. The formula for failure
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" Ben Franklin
Beto in wisconsin
Beto in wisconsin
Re: Why (only) Colt doesn't make polymer, striker-fired pist
4They likely sell way more through government contracts, mostly M-16 family weapons. It's not just the US Military either but lots of militaries all over the world.
When an army wants to buy tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands guns, they don't go to one of the smaller manufacturers, even if they sell more than Colt on the US civilian market - they go to a manufacturer like Colt (or H&K or FN) that has the production capacity to make all those guns in a reasonable time.
When an army wants to buy tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands guns, they don't go to one of the smaller manufacturers, even if they sell more than Colt on the US civilian market - they go to a manufacturer like Colt (or H&K or FN) that has the production capacity to make all those guns in a reasonable time.
Re: Why (only) Colt doesn't make polymer, striker-fired pist
5On his deathbed in 1864, Samuel Colt was recorded to have said, "Polymers are the amalgamation of Satan and don't get me started on zytel."
Puffing up is no substitute for smarts but it's a common home remedy
Re: Why (only) Colt doesn't make polymer, striker-fired pist
6That was one of the answers I found on other internet sources - government contracts.TheViking wrote:They likely sell way more through government contracts, mostly M-16 family weapons. It's not just the US Military either but lots of militaries all over the world.
When an army wants to buy tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands guns, they don't go to one of the smaller manufacturers, even if they sell more than Colt on the US civilian market - they go to a manufacturer like Colt (or H&K or FN) that has the production capacity to make all those guns in a reasonable time.
Just like Crown Victoria was Ford's bread and butter for decades ( and most profitable car per unit sold with all those addittions )- before Chevy and Dodge took over the market for law enforcement patrol cars.
Last edited by deki on Sun Nov 30, 2014 1:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Why (only) Colt doesn't make polymer, striker-fired pist
7I also had to find pictures of that Colt's All American 2000 model.
Oh boy, is it ugly.
May I say, "almost like Glock"
Looks like some unsuccessful German experiment from 1945 when it was certain that war is lost.
Oh boy, is it ugly.
May I say, "almost like Glock"
Looks like some unsuccessful German experiment from 1945 when it was certain that war is lost.
Last edited by deki on Sun Nov 30, 2014 1:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Why (only) Colt doesn't make polymer, striker-fired pist
8Did he mention anything about bottom feeders?Simmer down wrote:On his deathbed in 1864, Samuel Colt was recorded to have said, "Polymers are the amalgamation of Satan and don't get me started on zytel."
Re: Why (only) Colt doesn't make polymer, striker-fired pist
9The thing that gets me is that their 1911's have quality in the same range as the $700-ish Rugers and Remingtons but are priced like the higher end Springfields. If they wanted to go all-out and make really exquisite $2K guns then people would buy them, or if they priced down their lower end it could put a hurt on the bulk of the market. Instead they just stagnate (FWIW I own a couple of Colt 1911's of modern and classic vintage).
Similarly if they brought back the Python in some form - wow... Could seriously cash in, especially if they hit the right parts of the product line. The brand is absolute gold with most gun people. It's shocking that the opportunity has been squandered so consistently over the years.
Similarly if they brought back the Python in some form - wow... Could seriously cash in, especially if they hit the right parts of the product line. The brand is absolute gold with most gun people. It's shocking that the opportunity has been squandered so consistently over the years.
Re: Why (only) Colt doesn't make polymer, striker-fired pist
10You are right, I don't know of anyone that would not be willing to pay around $1000 for a beauty and perfection that Python is.swissdog wrote:The thing that gets me is that their 1911's have quality in the same range as the $700-ish Rugers and Remingtons but are priced like the higher end Springfields. If they wanted to go all-out and make really exquisite $2K guns then people would buy them, or if they priced down their lower end it could put a hurt on the bulk of the market. Instead they just stagnate (FWIW I own a couple of Colt 1911's of modern and classic vintage).
Similarly if they brought back the Python in some form - wow... Could seriously cash in, especially if they hit the right parts of the product line. The brand is absolute gold with most gun people. It's shocking that the opportunity has been squandered so consistently over the years.
They could also cash in if they make a budget $400 polymer pistol just like S&W and Ruger did ( and not to mention all European brands) .
A lot of people would buy it b/c of loyalty to Colt brand.
Pricing you mentioned above, seems to be arrogant attitude coming from Colt.
Re: Why (only) Colt doesn't make polymer, striker-fired pist
11They can't. Not at an affordable price. The hand fitting needed to make a Python would make an English Best Shotgun look cheap and if they tried to go MIM or any other modern technology, the traditionalists would gather pitchforks and torches (probably literally given the hell they give S&W over it). A smith friend of mine once estimated that just the labor cost would be about $3000 to make a Python the old way: They made boxes of almost interchangeable parts and then fit each one to the pistol. Every Python is unique and the internal parts from one will not fit into another without serious fitting.swissdog wrote: Similarly if they brought back the Python in some form.
Colt will keep coasting as long as they can until they're nothing more than a memory like Parker or L. C. Smith...
Live like you will never die, love like you've never been hurt, dance
like no-one is watching.
Alex White
like no-one is watching.
Alex White
Re: Why (only) Colt doesn't make polymer, striker-fired pist
12My baseless speculation is this: Given the degree of hand fitting, they'd probably need to charge at least three times that, and add another grand for the name. And they'd probably fly out the door.deki wrote: You are right, I don't know of anyone that would not be willing to pay around $1000 for a beauty and perfection that Python is.
Instead, they just keep on phoning it in.
Hell is where:
The British are the chefs
The Swiss are the lovers
The French are the mechanics
The Italians make everything run on time
And the Germans are the police
The British are the chefs
The Swiss are the lovers
The French are the mechanics
The Italians make everything run on time
And the Germans are the police
Re: Why (only) Colt doesn't make polymer, striker-fired pist
13Given what old Pythons are going for even in relatively undesirable configurations and marginal condition even $3K+ isn't necessarily out of bounds. Clearly it's not a high volume gun like the usual $500-$800 Smiths and Rugers but there's a tier above the $1500-$2500 S&W PC catalog that's only served by ultra low volume custom gunsmiths and as the high end semi-custom 1911 makers (Nighthawk, Brown, Baer, etc) have shown there's a definite market for ridiculously expensive factory-made handguns. I couldn't see plunking down $5K to end up on a waiting list for a 1911-shaped piece of jewelry but clearly people do.wlewisiii wrote:They can't. Not at an affordable price. The hand fitting needed to make a Python would make an English Best Shotgun look cheap and if they tried to go MIM or any other modern technology, the traditionalists would gather pitchforks and torches (probably literally given the hell they give S&W over it). A smith friend of mine once estimated that just the labor cost would be about $3000 to make a Python the old way: They made boxes of almost interchangeable parts and then fit each one to the pistol. Every Python is unique and the internal parts from one will not fit into another without serious fitting.swissdog wrote: Similarly if they brought back the Python in some form.
Colt will keep coasting as long as they can until they're nothing more than a memory like Parker or L. C. Smith...
The other point is that Colt could potentially leverage their expertise into a cheaper revolver line - particularly in the pocket carry space - while using the Python as a marquee.
Re: Why (only) Colt doesn't make polymer, striker-fired pist
14Yeah, they lost their source of iron when the Red Army advanced through Silesia, so they had to make guns out of pressed dinosaur poop.deki wrote: Looks like some unsuccessful German experiment from 1945 when it was certain that war is lost.
What's our excuse?
"To initiate a war of aggression...is the supreme international crime" - Nuremberg prosecutor Robert Jackson, 1946
Re: Why (only) Colt doesn't make polymer, striker-fired pist
15All the beauty of a Glock with the ergonomics of the Roth-Steyr M1907.
Re: Why (only) Colt doesn't make polymer, striker-fired pist
16Looks like a glue gun.
Puffing up is no substitute for smarts but it's a common home remedy
Re: Why (only) Colt doesn't make polymer, striker-fired pist
17I would love to shoot an Anaconda along side my 29 and see if there is an appreciable difference other than price.
'Sorry stupid people but there are some definite disadvantages to being stupid."
-John Cleese
-John Cleese
Re: Why (only) Colt doesn't make polymer, striker-fired pist
18I honestly don't understand the fascination with the Colt DA revolvers, except the detective. The vent-rib barrels are pretty, and they look quite good when put on a Smith or Ruger revolver.
Re: Why (only) Colt doesn't make polymer, striker-fired pist
19I've owned both, I prefer the S&W - especially for DA. Perhaps if I shot the old target games in SA I'd appreciate Colt's more...Fukshot wrote:I honestly don't understand the fascination with the Colt DA revolvers, except the detective. The vent-rib barrels are pretty, and they look quite good when put on a Smith or Ruger revolver.
Live like you will never die, love like you've never been hurt, dance
like no-one is watching.
Alex White
like no-one is watching.
Alex White
Re: Why (only) Colt doesn't make polymer, striker-fired pist
20At one time Colt was the most innovative company in the industry, both S&W and Ruger copied them shamelessly. After Charter Arms developed the transfer bar ignition in the 60s Colt jumped at the idea and brought out the MKIII series of revolvers. Where they truly fucked up was in the 70s and they turned the company over to a bunch of bean counting micro managing accountants who immediately went after the rank and file employees.
"Hillary Clinton is the finest, bravest, kindest, the most wonderful person I've ever known in my whole life" Raymond Shaw
Re: Why (only) Colt doesn't make polymer, striker-fired pist
21Have there been no labor saving manufacturing improvements since they quit making the Python? I find that hard to believe.
Sigs are bad for you.
Re: Why (only) Colt doesn't make polymer, striker-fired pist
22Do anything different and the fan boys will shriek "treason" and scream about how horrible they are and that they won't buy them.
Go over to the S&W forum and see how many won't buy pistols with MIM parts or other Cost Saving modern technology. To many of them it's even worse than the Hillary Hole.
Look at the begrudging reception that the Trooper Mk III & Mk V got. Boiled down "Barely acceptable and not a Python.".
No, they whine they want a Python just like the old ones but aren't willing to pay the $5,000 to 10,000 that such a pistol would cost between the hand labor, new machinery (all the old colt machines and jigs were scrapped IIUC) and depreciation of those expenses as well as the cost of keeping a failing company afloat.
I had a Colt 357 for awhile. Exact same mechanics as a Python. Hated shooting it in DA. I far prefer my S&W 10 that is DAO. That's a real working revolver. A Python is nothing but an expensive bit of artwork that doesn't work as well as far as I am concerned.
Go over to the S&W forum and see how many won't buy pistols with MIM parts or other Cost Saving modern technology. To many of them it's even worse than the Hillary Hole.
Look at the begrudging reception that the Trooper Mk III & Mk V got. Boiled down "Barely acceptable and not a Python.".
No, they whine they want a Python just like the old ones but aren't willing to pay the $5,000 to 10,000 that such a pistol would cost between the hand labor, new machinery (all the old colt machines and jigs were scrapped IIUC) and depreciation of those expenses as well as the cost of keeping a failing company afloat.
I had a Colt 357 for awhile. Exact same mechanics as a Python. Hated shooting it in DA. I far prefer my S&W 10 that is DAO. That's a real working revolver. A Python is nothing but an expensive bit of artwork that doesn't work as well as far as I am concerned.
Live like you will never die, love like you've never been hurt, dance
like no-one is watching.
Alex White
like no-one is watching.
Alex White
Re: Why (only) Colt doesn't make polymer, striker-fired pist
23So same reason as why Harley-Davidson hasn't brought out anything innovative for half a century or so, yet can keep prices above most other manufacturers...wlewisiii wrote:Do anything different and the fan boys will shriek "treason" and scream about how horrible they are and that they won't buy them.
Yesterday's Technology at Tomorrow's Prices
Re: Why (only) Colt doesn't make polymer, striker-fired pist
24Now now now Viking, other than the fact that they are slow don't handle very well nor stop very well harleys are damn fine motorcycles.TheViking wrote:So same reason as why Harley-Davidson hasn't brought out anything innovative for half a century or so, yet can keep prices above most other manufacturers...wlewisiii wrote:Do anything different and the fan boys will shriek "treason" and scream about how horrible they are and that they won't buy them.
Yesterday's Technology at Tomorrow's Prices
"Hillary Clinton is the finest, bravest, kindest, the most wonderful person I've ever known in my whole life" Raymond Shaw
Re: Why (only) Colt doesn't make polymer, striker-fired pist
25At least it seems their QC has improved.eelj wrote:Now now now Viking, other than the fact that they are slow don't handle very well nor stop very well harleys are damn fine motorcycles.TheViking wrote:So same reason as why Harley-Davidson hasn't brought out anything innovative for half a century or so, yet can keep prices above most other manufacturers...wlewisiii wrote:Do anything different and the fan boys will shriek "treason" and scream about how horrible they are and that they won't buy them.
Yesterday's Technology at Tomorrow's Prices
After all, 90% of all H-Ds ever built are still on the road. The last 10% made it home...