Archery Winter Training Program

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Now that winter has started, how do we train to keep the archery conditioning we have or try to recover some of what we used to have when spring arrives?

CDFingers recent posts inspired me to try a variation of his “Walkback Archery Game”.

The goal is to develop a simple, easy, bow & arrow training habit that is fun.

I have a 20 X 20 cabin next to my house that I can shoot in. Last week I hung a Walmart archery target bag on a shelf bracket bolted to the steel entrance door. The longest distance inside I can shoot is about 14 ft. So I started at 10 feet and did a trial run.

It was a shock trying to shoot left handed. First time! My mind hit the ditch. My arrow hit the door. I should have started 3 feet away from the arrow tip.

My bow of choice for this is a 72” Trad bow by Rudder Company, a Flat bow, 37 Lb. draw at 28” modified to 25 Lb. at 30” draw. To reduce the pull weight I spent several hours with a block plane covering the floor with wood shavings which reduced the pull weight. Now the bow is fun to shoot.

With this setup, it’s just plain vanilla traditional. The only accessories are an arm guard and a Damascus 3 finger glove.

The objective here is to develop strength in my arm and back muscles equally.
Along with the strength building, work on my form, draw and release.

Distance; 10 feet
Practice Frequency; Every other day or shoot then wait until the soreness almost quits.
Shoot 5 arrows right handed then 5 arrows left handed. Do 4 times which equals 20 shots.

So far I’ve done this twice. It took 4 days for the soreness to fade to a dull ach. But I’ve got some numbers to start. Now it should get easier until I shorten the number of days between sessions and / or increase the number of shots.

Comments? Suggestions?

Brain droppings by,
Pointfocus
Thanks to CDFingers for your experience and advice.
I remarked, I was trying to keep relaxed, the Zen Master replied: 'That's just the trouble, you make an effort to think about it. Concentrate on your breathing, as if you had nothing else to do. (Quote modified to fit.)
Zen in the Art of Archery.
Attachments
Shot group with Left hand
Shot group with Left hand

Re: Archery Winter Training Program

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This is quite a nice post, mainly because I'm seeing an archer doing conditioning.

Yeah, when I started shooting with my "off" side, it took me a while to get more than a few arrow lengths away from the bag. Very awkward. I'm glad I've never tried to brush my teeth with my off hand--might poke me eye out.

Since that was the first iteration, sorness happened. But if you keep on a nice schedule, you will strengthen.

Do you hit the ceiling with the bow's upper limb? A six foot bow is pretty long.

Keep trainin'

CDFingers
Crazy cat peekin' through a lace bandana
like a one-eyed Cheshire, like a diamond-eyed Jack

Re: Archery Winter Training Program

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But bow season just ended!

I don't really have a rigorous training program, my bow is just always on the wall in my garage and my target block always in the back yard, I grab my bow and shoot when I feel it, which is fairly regularly.

I'm not trying to be a dick and haven't seen your setup but are you damn sure nobody is gonna come through that door?
'Sorry stupid people but there are some definite disadvantages to being stupid."

-John Cleese

Re: Archery Winter Training Program

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Mason wrote:But bow season just ended!
This is a maintenance/development program for next spring. Then I don't have to spend 4 to 6 weeks to get back in shape after the archery season starts.
I don't really have a rigorous training program, my bow is just always on the wall in my garage and my target block always in the back yard, I grab my bow and shoot when I feel it, which is fairly regularly.

I'm not trying to be a dick and haven't seen your setup but are you damn sure nobody is gonna come through that door?
Not a problem here. I live in the woods. First they encounter a free ranging german shepherd with attitude then a lock. I'll know if someone is coming.

Pointfocus (Gil)
I remarked, I was trying to keep relaxed, the Zen Master replied: 'That's just the trouble, you make an effort to think about it. Concentrate on your breathing, as if you had nothing else to do. (Quote modified to fit.)
Zen in the Art of Archery.

Re: Archery Winter Training Program

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CDFingers wrote:This is quite a nice post, mainly because I'm seeing an archer doing conditioning.

Yeah, when I started shooting with my "off" side, it took me a while to get more than a few arrow lengths away from the bag. Very awkward. I'm glad I've never tried to brush my teeth with my off hand--might poke me eye out.

Since that was the first iteration, sorness happened. But if you keep on a nice schedule, you will strengthen.

Do you hit the ceiling with the bow's upper limb? A six foot bow is pretty long.

Keep trainin'

CDFingers
No, the ceiling is 8 feet high. I like a long bow. It feels more stable and my long draw keeps the string from pinching my finger verses a shorter bow.

Pointfocus (Gil)
I remarked, I was trying to keep relaxed, the Zen Master replied: 'That's just the trouble, you make an effort to think about it. Concentrate on your breathing, as if you had nothing else to do. (Quote modified to fit.)
Zen in the Art of Archery.

Re: Archery Winter Training Program

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CDFingers wrote:Another exciting thing is how you adjusted your long bow by shaving material off the limbs. I want to make a long bow, so your zeal to jump in has given me new enthusiasm for the project.

CDFingers
Making your own bow! Now that is a worth while endeavor. The internet is full of information on this subject including several Youtube presentations.

At first I tried to find a bower at the local archery shop to reduce the flat bow weight. Several times a week, the old timers gather and share experiences. So, I went in and kind of let it be known that I wanted to reduce the poundage on my flat bow. Several cautious suggestions were ventured but no volunteers to do it for me. Then I woke up. What am I trying to do here? Learn how to do it, not try to take a shortcut. My favorite expression; “If you didn’t do any thing to earn It, It’s not yours”. So I got a block plane and started reducing the width by cutting the edges of each limb. After several cuts over about 2 hours the scale read 25 Lbs. at 30” draw. What a difference! Now I could hold my draw to anchor, review all the steps and slowly pull to the release point with minimal shaking.

Pointfocus (Gil)
I remarked, I was trying to keep relaxed, the Zen Master replied: 'That's just the trouble, you make an effort to think about it. Concentrate on your breathing, as if you had nothing else to do. (Quote modified to fit.)
Zen in the Art of Archery.

Re: Archery Winter Training Program

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For the last twenty years I've been growing two pecan trees. They were volunteers planted by local squirrels, and they have made others around the yard, too, so we always have pecans. But these two are a) next to the fence and b)next to the house, so I top them every two years. This gives me two ten foot long, clear tree trunks. The tops is where all the sprouts come out, so I'm sure there are some uber neat burl bowls hidden inside those tops.

This winter I'm taking the one down next to the fence. While it's green, I'm going to split it into quarters, right down the middle. This will expose the heart wood and the sap wood. While still green, I'll hack these four down to bolts and dry them for a while. I'm going to make a bow out of each one. I know I'll likely fuck up the first one. I'm going to leave the heart wood on the inside, facing the archer to compress the heart wood when drawn, and leave the sap wood on the outside away from the archer to stretch the softer, more flexible wood on the draw.

My recurve is a 48 pounder, and my compound is a 54 pounder. My guess is after a year you'll be looking for a stronger bow. Maybe I'll have a long bow to trade by then.

Don't quit. Conditioning is a long and never ending road, but it has no bumps, no traffic, and you get to do it on your own schedule.

CDFingers
Crazy cat peekin' through a lace bandana
like a one-eyed Cheshire, like a diamond-eyed Jack

Re: Archery Winter Training Program

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Well, I over did it. On the 16th of November I started with 2 reps of 5 arrows at 10 feet, right hand. Then 2 reps of 5 arrows at 10 feet, left hand. Bow is a traditional bow, planed down from 36 Lbs. to 25 Lbs.

Repeated on the 20th, 4 days later. Then on the 23rd 3 days later the bow felt so easy that I doubled the right and left hand shots to 20 arrows each for at total of 40. The next day there was a little soreness in my shoulder joints. The following day the soreness increased a lot. I over did it.

Today, 6 days later on the 29th the soreness is almost gone and desire to shoot returned.
So, I shot 2 reps, 5 arrows each rep, right hand for 10 a total at 10 feet. Rested for 10 minutes and repeated left hand.

I’ve spent a lot of time Goggling how you build strength by stressing muscles just enough with weight, repetition and frequency. The theory is stressing the muscles just enough to cause very small tears in the fibers that make up the muscles. It takes about 2 days for repairs to occur. If done correctly the repairs are such that the muscle is stronger. Since we don’t have dial gages like our car, informing us of temperature, stress, etc., it boils down to trial and error.
The parameters outlined above are a general starting point for new, returning and senior archers.

Now, I’ll wait 2 to 3 days depending on shoulder joint soreness and desire to shoot.

The goal is when spring arrives, we move outdoors with our new found strength and form. Then we start increasing the distance and aim at the bullseye using CDFingers suggestion of Walkback Archery Game.

Comments? Suggestions?

Pointfocus
Brain droppings
Last edited by Pointfocus on Sat Nov 30, 2013 8:40 am, edited 3 times in total.
I remarked, I was trying to keep relaxed, the Zen Master replied: 'That's just the trouble, you make an effort to think about it. Concentrate on your breathing, as if you had nothing else to do. (Quote modified to fit.)
Zen in the Art of Archery.

Re: Archery Winter Training Program

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CDFingers wrote:For the last twenty years I've been growing two pecan trees. They were volunteers planted by local squirrels, and they have made others around the yard, too, so we always have pecans. But these two are a) next to the fence and b)next to the house, so I top them every two years. This gives me two ten foot long, clear tree trunks. The tops is where all the sprouts come out, so I'm sure there are some uber neat burl bowls hidden inside those tops.

This winter I'm taking the one down next to the fence. While it's green, I'm going to split it into quarters, right down the middle. This will expose the heart wood and the sap wood. While still green, I'll hack these four down to bolts and dry them for a while. I'm going to make a bow out of each one. I know I'll likely fuck up the first one. I'm going to leave the heart wood on the inside, facing the archer to compress the heart wood when drawn, and leave the sap wood on the outside away from the archer to stretch the softer, more flexible wood on the draw.

My recurve is a 48 pounder, and my compound is a 54 pounder. My guess is after a year you'll be looking for a stronger bow. Maybe I'll have a long bow to trade by then.

Don't quit. Conditioning is a long and never ending road, but it has no bumps, no traffic, and you get to do it on your own schedule.

CDFingers
I like your well thought out approach on the pecan tree. We will be watching your description as this develops.

Pointfocus
I remarked, I was trying to keep relaxed, the Zen Master replied: 'That's just the trouble, you make an effort to think about it. Concentrate on your breathing, as if you had nothing else to do. (Quote modified to fit.)
Zen in the Art of Archery.

Re: Archery Winter Training Program

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I have so many examples from my life about desire over taking what wisdom I've developed, especially when it comes to shooting arrows. It's always more fun to shoot arrows that it is to not shoot them. So from time to time I over do it also. In the short term there is only some discomfort to repeating that error many many times. But from other archers I've spoken with about this is that if we continually over do it, we suffer joint problems, like in the ball of the arm bone at the shoulder, at the elbow, and, if you use the three finger glove like I do, sometimes in the wrist.

My strategy has been to learn to listen to my body and back off when I get the discomfort. This idea took me like three decades to figure out. There were times I had to lay off a whole year back in the early 90's because I over did. Now I think I know. Time will tell.

All this shooting arrows stems from my discovery that I'm a target-directed motor skills junkie. It's like I must do it. I must fling, shoot, propel, toss, chuck, or throw things, or else I don't feel proper somehow. When I'm not shooting arrows I'm shooting rifles or hand guns, and now I'm working on a shot gun, and I have a Frisbee. I'll wad up paper just so's I can toss it into the waste basket. I'll fling Pyracantha and Nandina berries, olives, oranges, and what not. I live two blocks from a creek where I frequently go and skip stones.

A man's got to know his limitations, so: I must fling or die! He he. What's next? Making an atlatl that fits the butt stock of my Mosin Nagant m44. If that pans out, I'll use an m91.

CDFingers
Crazy cat peekin' through a lace bandana
like a one-eyed Cheshire, like a diamond-eyed Jack

Re: Archery Winter Training Program

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Back on schedule now after straining my muscles. Shoot 10 arrows, 10 feet, right hand, with traditional bow the repeat left handed.
Rest 48 hours then do it again. So far Every thing is working.

THE AWAKENING!

Today I pinned a 8" paper plate on the bag. Raised the bow then realized I need to have a dot to look at. It just felt wrong? With a felt tip marker added a 1/4" dot. Raised the bow, looked at my blue strip of masking tape with a mark on the back side of the bow to line it up with the marker (sort of like cheating) and thought, Why not. Removed the tape with the sight mark. Now it's true traditional shooting. (The idea of shooting 8" paper plates is located near the bottom of the Archery page titled "How About A Postal Match" by Inquistor in June 23, 2011. Check it out. Maybe extend the winter training program into the outside?)

BTW. So, I drew and let fly. The arrow hit low, #2 a little higher #3 higher yet, #4 right beside the dot, #5 arrow released and bounced back and hit the floor. (See attachment below). On inspection, the arrow had nailed #4 arrow in the nock, breaking half away as it was heading for the same spot.

Years ago I tried to shoot intuitive. It was a disaster. What’s different? Over time I have been shooting with sights, developing and improving the steps required to releasing the arrow.

Imagine my surprise. How is this possible? I just stared at the dot for about 5 seconds, raised and drew the bow, locked my anchor and waited and for "IT" to shoot. I had no conscious thought of releasing. Amazing!

My point is if I can do it, you can too.
Target # 2 is posted next. Notice how tighter the groups are as the mind learns and corrects.

Comments, questions? Good shooting.
Pointfocus
P.M.O.E. (Pursuing My Own Excellence)
Last edited by Pointfocus on Mon Dec 02, 2013 8:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I remarked, I was trying to keep relaxed, the Zen Master replied: 'That's just the trouble, you make an effort to think about it. Concentrate on your breathing, as if you had nothing else to do. (Quote modified to fit.)
Zen in the Art of Archery.
Attachments
Arrow with broken nock
Arrow with broken nock
Target #2, The second one.
Target #2, The second one.
Target #1, The first one.
Target #1, The first one.

Re: Archery Winter Training Program

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CDFingers wrote:Good action. Now you have to buy a little bag of nocks. And some glue. Then a few vanes...and so it begins.

I like it.

CDFingers
Now I understand more about the joy and the rush of traditional archery. It lies in wait in the gene pool, a library of over 12000 years of experience. What really shocked me was how accurate the arrows were.
I think that now the danger is trying to rush the practice and damaging my arm and shoulder.

Thanks for your encouragement and advice.

Pointfocus,
Gil
I remarked, I was trying to keep relaxed, the Zen Master replied: 'That's just the trouble, you make an effort to think about it. Concentrate on your breathing, as if you had nothing else to do. (Quote modified to fit.)
Zen in the Art of Archery.

Re: Archery Winter Training Program

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I was at work, so I couldn't really think deeply about a reply. All's I could muster was positive vibes.

But, yeah: archery is old. Not as old as spears and atlatls, but older than villages. Folks at the beginning had to make stuff without living in an permanent spot.

I like the nick on your nock. I wish you a Robin Hood sometime in the future. However, with arrows weighing in at like six bucks apiece, you will be glad for your bag: it lets the arrows stick straight out. Before I adopted the orange juice jug technique, my arrows would sag down. That means I have a little pile of wrecked arrows. It's my boneyard for spare parts.

Here's a cool site:

http://www.kyudo.com/kyudo/kyudo-t.html

It's cool because it lets the archer separate shooting into compartments, and then they can be worked on individually. The site says that after a hold of about six to eight seconds, the release can be compared to when snow falls under its own weight from a leaf.

I put the site here because practice does not make perfect: practice makes permanent, so it's best to practice each step well.

Let fall the snow, but go easy on the body!

CDFingers
Crazy cat peekin' through a lace bandana
like a one-eyed Cheshire, like a diamond-eyed Jack

Re: Archery Winter Training Program

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CDFingers wrote:I was at work, so I couldn't really think deeply about a reply. All's I could muster was positive vibes.

But, yeah: archery is old. Not as old as spears and atlatls, but older than villages. Folks at the beginning had to make stuff without living in an permanent spot.

I like the nick on your nock. I wish you a Robin Hood sometime in the future. However, with arrows weighing in at like six bucks apiece, you will be glad for your bag: it lets the arrows stick straight out. Before I adopted the orange juice jug technique, my arrows would sag down. That means I have a little pile of wrecked arrows. It's my boneyard for spare parts.

Here's a cool site:

http://www.kyudo.com/kyudo/kyudo-t.html

It's cool because it lets the archer separate shooting into compartments, and then they can be worked on individually. The site says that after a hold of about six to eight seconds, the release can be compared to when snow falls under its own weight from a leaf.

I put the site here because practice does not make perfect: practice makes permanent, so it's best to practice each step well.

Let fall the snow, but go easy on the body!

CDFingers
So glad you are here. Your knowledge and advice is much needed for us fledglings in the nursery.
I like this one because of Why! "Before I adopted the orange juice jug technique, my arrows would sag down."

The information is out their, it's just scattered. You just have to earn it by effort, then it's yours.
I have two favorite books. "Precision Archery by Steve Ruis & Claudia Stevenson". Publishers of Archery Focus Magazine. The other one is the latest research into the brain and how it works when you use the subconscious. "The Mental Art of World Class Competitive Rifle Shooting", by Chet Skinner, International Shooting Coach". This book is a translation from German to English. Kinda disjointed and scattered. It's deep and hard to read but there is gold to be found. There is a lot of the subconscious research that is directly applicable to archery. Hint. Find the forum.

CDFingers, I like your "Cool Site Reference". I have several books on Kyudo. I have the book with audio tape, "Zen, And The Art Of Archery". His teacher was old school. Wacked Hydrial (sic) in the leg chin hard with a stick when he screwed up. Great stuff for motivation.
Best wishes,
Pointfocus
Gil
I remarked, I was trying to keep relaxed, the Zen Master replied: 'That's just the trouble, you make an effort to think about it. Concentrate on your breathing, as if you had nothing else to do. (Quote modified to fit.)
Zen in the Art of Archery.

Re: Archery Winter Training Program

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As far as winter training goes, I've increased the number of arrows I shoot by five on each side. This means each time I shoot it's 18 arrows from each side, total 36, twice a week, about. It's been about three weeks or so since I increased the number. I shot yesterday and I can feel it. That means to me I've not yet adapted to the increased work load. I'll keep this up until I wake up the next day with no sore muscles.

CDFingers
Crazy cat peekin' through a lace bandana
like a one-eyed Cheshire, like a diamond-eyed Jack

Re: Archery Winter Training Program

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CDFingers wrote:As far as winter training goes, I've increased the number of arrows I shoot by five on each side. This means each time I shoot it's 18 arrows from each side, total 36, twice a week, about. It's been about three weeks or so since I increased the number. I shot yesterday and I can feel it. That means to me I've not yet adapted to the increased work load. I'll keep this up until I wake up the next day with no sore muscles.

CDFingers
It appears that you got it just about right. Keep it up. When you wake up and feel no soreness and you want to shoot some arrows. Do it. I find the best way so far is to hold to the same number of arrows for the next 3 to 5 times then add 20% arrows and see what happens.

P.Y.O.E (Pursuing Your Own Excellence)

Pointfocus (Gil)
Did you ever hear the story about "Just About Right"?
I remarked, I was trying to keep relaxed, the Zen Master replied: 'That's just the trouble, you make an effort to think about it. Concentrate on your breathing, as if you had nothing else to do. (Quote modified to fit.)
Zen in the Art of Archery.

Re: Archery Winter Training Program

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CDFingers wrote:I'll shoot Thursdays and Sundays, days open on my schedule.

Tell me the story you heard about "just about right" and I'll know if I've heard it.

CDFingers
The schedule is everything. Mine is when I add logs to the wood burning stove. Then it’s quite time. I shoot 5 arrows and then relax and reflect on the groupings. Recall the steps that make the shot. Did I forget something? How did it feel? And so forth. All shots varied from 10 to 18 feet. This plan seems to work.

My dentist told me the story years ago.

A fellow was walking down the street when he approached an old man sitting on the curb. He had a bottle inside a paper bag which he would take a sip from now and then. The fellow asked the old man, wacha drinking. He replied, wine. The fellow then asked, how is it. The old man said, just about right. What do you mean, just about right?

He replied, if it was any better, my friend wouldn’t have given it to me and if it was any worse, I couldn't stand to drink it.

Pointfocus
I remarked, I was trying to keep relaxed, the Zen Master replied: 'That's just the trouble, you make an effort to think about it. Concentrate on your breathing, as if you had nothing else to do. (Quote modified to fit.)
Zen in the Art of Archery.

Re: Archery Winter Training Program

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CDFingers wrote:When I was younger and working in restaurants I heard it, but with coffee. We had a sign up above the coffee pot that said, "Don't laugh. You may be old and weak some day."

CDFingers
After I heard that joke, it provoked an automatic response that was a permanent part of my vocabulary. If any body asked me “how was it” the tag line came out, “just about right”.

I have to admit something to you. When I write any thing to you, it takes about 5 to ten times longer to write it. In fact, all writing now takes longer as I check the spelling, sentence structure, etc. It’s because of your vocation. Then there are your archery skills. I’m finding this is a very healthy avocation on many levels.

You don’t have to say a thing and you make a difference.
Thanks,

Pointfocus
I remarked, I was trying to keep relaxed, the Zen Master replied: 'That's just the trouble, you make an effort to think about it. Concentrate on your breathing, as if you had nothing else to do. (Quote modified to fit.)
Zen in the Art of Archery.

Re: Archery Winter Training Program

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I pursue the perfect, cold shot, the one where you've been sitting for hours or stalking for hours, and the target presents itself.

I've noticed my first cold shot on a Thursday after four days away is generally better than my first shot on a Sunday, three days away. I think I take more time getting ready for a Thursday first shot than for a Sunday first shot. Fun, nonetheless.

CDFingers
Crazy cat peekin' through a lace bandana
like a one-eyed Cheshire, like a diamond-eyed Jack

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