Re: Thoughts on this spoiled 19 year old cheerleader?

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shinzen wrote:So if it hadn't been a 19 year old cheerleader, would you have the same reaction? How about 25 year old tech guru goes on safari. Contributes money to conservation efforts overseas and provides support to local African schools.

The press spin on this is misogynist. IMO.
As much as I loathe rich parents over-indulging their kids, there's nothing inherently wrong with what she did...it's how it was done. Facebooking the trip was chumming the waters for every internet troll and animal rights activist to have a freaking field day of their own. If more young people would stop with the, "look at me" attitude, much less of these stories and public outrage would happen.
LGC Texas - Vice President

Re: Thoughts on this spoiled 19 year old cheerleader?

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I think the whole world has been a big douchebag towards Africa. The continent belongs too Africans, they should be able too develop their lands themselves based on their needs. Its not a playground for the rest of the world, or a source of desserts and beverages. Don't get me started on diamonds or the assholes that wear them.
"Hillary Clinton is the finest, bravest, kindest, the most wonderful person I've ever known in my whole life" Raymond Shaw

Re: Thoughts on this spoiled 19 year old cheerleader?

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eelj wrote:I think the whole world has been a big douchebag towards Africa. The continent belongs too Africans, they should be able too develop their lands themselves based on their needs. Its not a playground for the rest of the world, or a source of desserts and beverages. Don't get me started on diamonds or the assholes that wear them.
Agreed, of course. Except that all that colonial activity long since fucked the continent six ways from Sunday, probably irreparably.
Hell is where:
The British are the chefs
The Swiss are the lovers
The French are the mechanics
The Italians make everything run on time
And the Germans are the police

Re: Thoughts on this spoiled 19 year old cheerleader?

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There is some "discussion" I've seen on the interwebs that this is not all as it seems. Pictures of her with a vet and a sedated rhino, vs actually dead rhino. There is a surprising lack of blood in almost all of her pics with the "big 5" animals. From what I've seen of hunting pics, there's usually (not always) blood around the area where the animal drops, on the animal, etc. I have not seen any pics of her with blood in the picture, on her clothes, the animal, etc. She has stated that her goal is to get a TV show, so there is some motivation to garner attention and streeeetch the truth a little. Just wondering, that's all.
Be sure to make good choices when you're being stupid...

Re: Thoughts on this spoiled 19 year old cheerleader?

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eelj wrote:I think the whole world has been a big douchebag towards Africa. The continent belongs too Africans, they should be able too develop their lands themselves based on their needs. Its not a playground for the rest of the world, or a source of desserts and beverages. Don't get me started on diamonds or the assholes that wear them.
There is nothing wrong with hunting in Africa. The license fees and trophy fees go along way to helping conservation efforts. Professional hunters employ alot of locals as trackers and meat carriers. I have several friends who have hunted Africa (mostly for plains animals) and not a scrap of meat or sinew is wasted. The llocals earn money and meat for the area and generally wealthy sportsmen get a trip of their lives. Africa is on my bucket list and even though I dreamed while reading the novels about hunting Cape Buffalo and lion they are out of my budget unless there is a lottery win or find that my wife hasnt told me about a large trust fund. If you want sticker shock about a animal hunt look up Marco Polo sheep I believe tags run about $250 K alone. And its not just wealthy americans hunting the big 5 in Africa, its very popular with Europeans as well.
Hey, careful, man, there's a beverage here! The Dude.
Skilled Labor Isn't Cheap - Cheap Labor Isn't Skilled

Re: Thoughts on this spoiled 19 year old cheerleader?

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Fukshot wrote:Personally, I'd think a dude doing the same thing was a douchebag too.

That said, the special flavor of shit she is getting is class A misogyny.
Why? Yeah she killed some endangered species..... The money her parents spent went to making sure the species stays alive. I fail to see the problem, care to explain?
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Socialism is economic suffrage
Communism is the antiquation of currency

Re: Thoughts on this spoiled 19 year old cheerleader?

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I find the colonialist dream of going out in to "darkest Africa" and killing exotic and unfamiliar things to be distasteful.

I'm not a fan of trophy hunting in general. This has nothing to do with the broader impact of the act. The arguments about the economic benefits to locals or the funding of wildlife preservation through fees on those who hunt don't change that.

I just think that crossing the globe to flex one's fortune through killing interesting things is a behavior that doesn't endear someone to me. I'm not interested in spending my time with people who dream of imposing themselves on the world in that kind of way to begin with. Wrap it up in colonialist history and the act of killing, and it is just too much for my delicate egalitarian sensibilities. I'm never going to not think that people who can just gloss over the meanings and origins of the African hunting script are assholes.

Not saying that I want to make it impossible for them to do it. Given that current economic realities make it a good thing for wildlife preservation and local economies, it's probably fortunate that there is an ample reservoir of this sort of rich assholes. If there had been fewer of these sort of assholes in the past, there probably wouldn't be a need for them now.

Re: Thoughts on this spoiled 19 year old cheerleader?

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I also find it distasteful but the exaggerated reaction is just another round in the culture war and smells of misogyny. Get the hell over it, ABC news and the 248,225 "Remove the Facebook page of Kendall Jones that promotes animal cruelty!" dipshits. I take animal rights seriously but they should be more incensed about where their fucking chicken McNuggets come from, but that would be too inconvenient.

Re: Thoughts on this spoiled 19 year old cheerleader?

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Let's see, one of her hunts was a male lion, one of the more worthless of the big cats. Also, one of the more dangerous. She also hunted a cheetah and a hippo from the pics I have seen folks getting all twisted over on FB. She seems to have been going after our fellow apex predators. They were all licensed hunts within areas that had no shortages of these animals. She wasn't using a punt gun to wipe out flocks of birds. really, these hunts are NOT common, more animals die to misadventure than bullets.
In a bacon, egg and cheese sandwich the chicken and cow are involved while the pig is committed.

Re: Thoughts on this spoiled 19 year old cheerleader?

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I looked in all the responses here and I failed to see the original reasons for the publicity of these photos. They were not splashed all over Facebook by the girl and/or her father originally. She goes to a high school where each student can submit their own photos of what they have experiences that they have had during their four years at the school. Hers happened to be on safari with her father. The school was well aware of it. And many of her experiences were used for various school projects through the years. If you look closely at the pictures, she is not the same age throughout them. They are progressive through the years.

The girl submitted these photos -- same ones she used in school projects and the school actually promoted her discussions through the years about her experiences. The school that had supported what she did and had initially agreed to the photos. At the very last minute, they caved and told her she couldn't use the photos. I look at it as a type of censorship. And extremely hypocritical. That's when the girl and her family released the photos via Facebook. And the descriptions of what they depicted.

I am not interested in hunting - of any kind. I don't foresee myself sitting in a blind and shooting ducks or deer or any other critter. That's not who I am. That's not what I am interested in. If that is what her family is interested in, or she is interested in, who am I to judge? We know it's out there. If it was done responsibly and not poached animals, who am I to judge? If she shot a tranq gun on the hippo so that it could receive medical assistance, so it was a tranq dart and not a bullet. She still used the same gun skills that anyone who shoots is going to have and is always interested in honing. If she shot and killed an injured or elderly lion that was destined for either death by members of its own group or because it was shot by illegal poachers or illegal hunters, well -- then it is a mercy kill. And it might be the same thing anyone who hunts might do to an injured or sick animal.

All I am saying is it is what it is and vilifying her or her family does no one any good and regardless of how we feel about safari personally, it doesn't give the school the right to censor her when for the past four years it has embraced what she did and used her experiences in the classroom. Safari may suck. But censorship sucks more.
First of all, let's call it what it really is...It's not a gun buy-back, because the government never owned them. It's a gun turn in.

Re: Thoughts on this spoiled 19 year old cheerleader?

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whitey wrote:Trophy hunters should be hunted to extinction.
CDFingers wrote:Allowing the of hunting animals like those who are threatened or endangered is poor game management.
Agreed.
gendoikari wrote: The money her parents spent went to making sure the species stays alive. I fail to see the problem, care to explain?...//...Got any alternatives for funding?
That's a funny way of making sure a species stays alive from my perspective. And, just because an organization claims to be earmarking funds to a particular purpose doesn't mean that such is actually the case. As for alternatives: Nothing says one has to kill an endangered animal in order to donate money to organizations dedicated to protecting endangered animals.

An ethics problem from philosophy 101:
The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ones_W ... rom_Omelas
Plot summary;
In the story, Omelas is a utopian city of happiness and delight, whose inhabitants are intelligent and cultured. Readers cannot be sure of every particular, because the narrator warns, "Omelas sounds in my words like a city in a fairy tale, long ago and far away, once upon a time. Perhaps it would be best if you imagined it as your own fancy bids, assuming it will rise to the occasion, for certainly I cannot suit you all."[6]

Everything about Omelas is pleasing, except for the city's one atrocity: the good fortune of Omelas requires that a single unfortunate child be kept in perpetual filth, darkness and misery, and that all her citizens should be told of this upon coming of age.

After being exposed to the truth, most of the people of Omelas are initially shocked and disgusted, but are ultimately able to come to terms with the fact and resolve to live their lives in such a manner as to make the suffering of the unfortunate child acceptable. However, a few citizens, young and old, silently walk away from the city, and no one knows where they go. The story ends with "The place they go towards is a place even less imaginable to most of us than the city of happiness. I cannot describe it at all. It is possible it does not exist. But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas."
Subliterate Buffooery of the right...
Literate Ignorance of the left...
We Are So Screwed

Re: Thoughts on this spoiled 19 year old cheerleader?

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CDFingers wrote:Allowing the of hunting animals like those who are threatened or endangered is poor game management.

CDFingers
Pretty sure that for the most vulnerable ones, it isn't a "go nuts, find one and kill it", it's "Lion A has outlived their benefit to their group and now poses a threat to its survival/growth. We were going to cull it, but by charging you rich assholes tens of thousands of dollars we get to actually raise money for keeping the preserve functioning, so let's go point you in the direction of Lion A, that's the only one you can shoot."

And yeah, I was noticing a bunch of use of terms like "bitch", "cunt", "whore", etc. used in comments on some of the "Liberal" pages on Facebook, which seemed (literally) politically incorrect, like they were just saving up their misogyny for acceptable targets. And this is the second time I can think of there being a big Facebook outrage over vulnerable species hunting/posting photos of it on Facebook, the other time was *also* focused on a young woman.

At least for Namibian rhinos, they've started auctioning off the licenses in the USA, because they make more (maybe $200k in Namibia/ZA for a ticket, but over $1m in USA). And just because you have the license doesn't mean you have to use it. You can get a bunch of friends together and buy out the hunters, and support the game preserves that way.
Image

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Any habitat Africa or even Wisconsin can only support a certain amount of animals. Loss of habitat is the main killer of game animals. So the African plains might only be able to support x number of lions or whatever. It costs alotof money to manage wildlife, just look at the budgets for wildlife management in the states. Its not a willy nilly number they come up with for licenses sold. In Africa you not only pay for the initial tag but if succesfull you also pay a trophy fee plus permits to export. You may get a meal or two from the meat but 99% of whats edible and even unedible gets used by the locals. Your capes and hides will be sitting in customs for a WHILE so the idea of walking a cooler full of meat through the airport isn't going to happen. Its not like game animals are shot, the head cut off and the carcass left to rot. As long as the animal gets used to its full potential and is harvested ethically what is the problem. I have travelled to other countries to hunt and did enjoy it. I just don't have time nor the money I used to anymore. No house payment or wife back then.
Hey, careful, man, there's a beverage here! The Dude.
Skilled Labor Isn't Cheap - Cheap Labor Isn't Skilled

Re: Thoughts on this spoiled 19 year old cheerleader?

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rolandson wrote: That's a funny way of making sure a species stays alive from my perspective. And, just because an organization claims to be earmarking funds to a particular purpose doesn't mean that such is actually the case. As for alternatives: Nothing says one has to kill an endangered animal in order to donate money to organizations dedicated to protecting endangered animals.
It's monetizing the successful survival of the species, It works. it's capitalism. What more do you want?
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