Newbie in GA

1
Hi, all! I'm a newbie to the group and to shooting in general. I've taken a couple of intro classes at a local range and joined the Pink Pistols. I'm 53 and had never fired a weapon in my life. After Orlando, I began seriously considering the possibility of armed self-defense. I was raised never to touch a gun and am largely pacifist until the Just War point. I know the Second Amendment gives "a well regulated militia" the right to keep and bear arms. I also know that the political climate in this country is well past toxic and into dangerous.

I always said that I would never shoot anyone until we were at war or "they" came for me and mine. But as the mood changed in this country, I also knew that I had to get ahead of the game. You can't defend yourself if you haven't practiced beforehand. I struggled with the morality of it a lot. I don't believe it's right to kill other than in self-defense, and even then you have to live with that on your conscience forever. But I also worry about the very real possibility of war, or at least of armed insurrection by political/religious zealots. And as a member of the LGBTQ community, I know who'll be first on their list.

At 16, I had a convicted felon pull a gun on me and stick it in my ribs as he tried to drag me off. It's a miracle I'm alive. First I pulled a stubby screwdriver on him reflexively, which made him laugh. Then I apologized and gave him the dollar and change I had. He said, "I don't want your money," and tried to lead me around the corner. Again, reflexively, I screamed, "HEY! HELP!" and he let go and ran away. The cops who ate at the restaurant where I worked descended on the scene when they heard the call and he went away.

More recently, a vagrant groped me in a well-lit business, but the video cameras didn't clearly show his hand on my crotch and the cop who responded screwed the pooch, letting him go despite my clear insistence that I wanted to file charges.

It could be a lot worse. And I want not to depend on someone else's competence or timing in the future.

I don't own a gun yet. I am partial to the Clock 19 3rd generation, but haven't shot a revolver yet and am keeping an open mind. I love the feel of it and I can shoot a nice grouping with it but there's some debate as to how well it conceals. I want to carry 9mm because a gun has only one purpose--to stop an assailant in his tracks--and I don't want to rely on a smaller-caliber weapon. I also don't want to hesitate once I draw for that one purpose because it could cost me my life.

I am also trying to learn as much as possible about deescalation, situational awareness, unarmed self-defense, etc. as possible BEFORE buying a weapon. I am seriously contemplating CCW and don't think too much of open carry, which is a big deal now in Georgia. I've been studying the laws about gun ownership in Georgia. I want to be a responsible gun owner, not a clown with my finger on a hair trigger.

And this is why: I actually DO believe in regulation. I don't think everyone should have the right to own a firearm and I am for domestic violence/sexual predator/mental health background checks. Those details must be hashed out by responsible gun owners.

If you can't get a SCUBA tank filled without a C-card, why can you buy ammo without a weapons permit? What is wrong with making a certain number of courses and training hours prerequisites to owning a firearm? You wouldn't even have to let the state register it. Just make it a business practice: don't sell a gun to someone who's never shot one before, or who has insufficient training and range time. Military veterans and police officers obviously would be exempt because they've had sufficient training and experience.

I'm sure some (or many!) folks may disagree but that's where I am with it. I do think regulation would cut down somewhat (not entirely) on what appears to be a large number of excitable young people running around holding pistols sideways and waving them around not-downrange. But then I'm an old Girl Scout. Although I come from a family with military service going back to the Revolutionary War, and although I was willing to serve, I was not willing to lie about my sexual orientation in the 1980s because it would have been dishonest. Thus, unlike some friends who did enter the service, I never got that kind of training. (I also was spared the abuses some friends were not.) I don't think of myself as a wannabe soldier or cop. I just think of myself as a patriot, a liberal blue patriot, who is willing to stand up for the principles which our current climate seems to have twisted beyond recognition in the most partisan fashions possible.

And I believe that, at the end of the day, patriots who are liberal, conservative, and whatever else will unite in defense of our country. Sadly, I think that day may come sooner than we think.

I am grateful to the local gun community, of whatever persuasions, for their advice and assistance. This includes my cousins, whose political persuasions are 180 degrees opposite mine, but whose expertise as competitive shooters, LEOs, veterans, etc. has been of great encouragement.

Incidentally, I'm writing a book about my journey to gun ownership, and would be grateful for anyone who would let me interview you along the way.

So hi, hope to see you around the range, and look forward to hearing your thoughts on these matters. Thanks for being here.
I’m NOT the NRA

Re: Newbie in GA

4
Greetings and welcome from Utah! :welcome:

Thanks for your thorough introduction, it's nice to have an idea of who someone is and why they're here and not have to suss it out from dozens of random posts. I think if you're here long enough some of your opinions on regulation will change, I know some of mine have, based on the detailed, well supported arguments people here make. But even if they don't, this will definitely be a good place for you to discuss your views on gun laws. Whether you agree or disagree with people here, this place always welcomes intelligent discussion on social issues, people's rights, and guns.

Your focus on training is great to see, it's always good to have another responsible gun owner in the world. Dangerous tools need to be handled respectfully and with care, but you seem to be aware of that already. I'm also interested in conflict resolution, deescalation, mitigation, so please share any new resources you come up with!

As for your choice of gun, I don't think anyone here will try to dissuade you from getting a Glock, especially if the ergonomics suit your body and you can perform well with one. You'll find a healthy contingent of CZ, Springfield, 1911 and revolver fans here too, and people who have experience with anything under the sun. If you ever find you want to expand past one gun you'll be able to get plenty of advise about good choices here.

I think we've got some other people from Georgia here, so maybe you'll be able to meet up with them and hit the range. There's no point in being in a club if you're not going to meet some new people.

Whatever you do, have fun and stay safe, and welcome again!

Re: Newbie in GA

6
Nice to meet you and WELCOME, neighbor!

You'll find that this place is full of great discussions and not everyone agrees on everything. It is simply one of the few forums available to discuss firearms issues without constantly being offended.

That said, I don't agree with you on every issue. Keep an open mind and others will keep an open mind (and many will agree with you here). Also, try out a few different firearms before you purchase one. I was raised around firearms in rural Colorado, so I have been lucky enough to have decades of experience. Many here have far more experience, so ask all the questions you like!
It is an unfortunate human failing that a full pocketbook often groans more loudly than an empty stomach.

- Franklin D. Roosevelt

Re: Newbie in GA

9
Thanks, y’all! Disagreement is fine. That’s how conversations are supposed to work. I appreciate LGC’s providing a place where we can reason together instead of screech at each other.

Yeah, about that revolver: not buying jack until I shoot a few more things! Each has its pluses and minuses. Good input from more experienced shooters is always welcome!

Plus, selecting a firearm is such an individualized thing. Some folks say I should get a .38 or .22; others say try the smaller Glock; others say if I’m comfortable with the 19, go for it. I say try as many as possible.


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I’m NOT the NRA

Re: Newbie in GA

10
Welcome.
HotheadPaisan wrote:I know the Second Amendment gives "a well regulated militia" the right to keep and bear arms.
Actually, the version ratified and authenticated by Jefferson says the following:
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
Those^ two statements are not equivalent.
HotheadPaisan wrote:I want to carry 9mm because a gun has only one purpose--to stop an assailant in his tracks...
If you practice to the extent you should you'll prove yourself wrong. Your G19 will be used for putting holes in paper, which is the primary function of the vast majority of firearms in civilian hands. Target shooting has entertainment value.
HotheadPaisan wrote:And this is why: I actually DO believe in regulation. I don't think everyone should have the right to own a firearm and I am for domestic violence/sexual predator/mental health background checks. Those details must be hashed out by responsible gun owners.

If you can't get a SCUBA tank filled without a C-card, why can you buy ammo without a weapons permit? What is wrong with making a certain number of courses and training hours prerequisites to owning a firearm? You wouldn't even have to let the state register it. Just make it a business practice: don't sell a gun to someone who's never shot one before, or who has insufficient training and range time. Military veterans and police officers obviously would be exempt because they've had sufficient training and experience.
Some restrictions for which you advocated above would be weaponized against <some_group> as the political climate allows. In the past restrictions were used against black people. In the future it will include others, and it might not go your way. Therein lies the problem.
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Re: Newbie in GA

11
:welcome:

Find a place where you can rent and try several different weapons. Think long and hard about how and where you will be using it. (You'll get "training" offers that are big on Hollywood scenarios, but most self defense combat is well within seven yards.)

I'm a devout convert to the 1911 religion, but when it comes to the sweet spot for simplicity, safety, reliability, versatility, and a bunch of other *ilities, it's hard to beat a stainless steel .357 magnum magnum revolver with no more than a 4" barrel. That's my recommendation for a first pistol. You can always get more as finances and local laws permit.
"There never was a union of church and state which did not bring serious evils to religion."
The Right Reverend John England, first Roman Catholic Bishop of Charleston SC, 1825.

Re: Newbie in GA

13
:welcome:
I am grateful to the local gun community, of whatever persuasions, for their advice and assistance. This includes my cousins, whose political persuasions are 180 degrees opposite mine, but whose expertise as competitive shooters, LEOs, veterans, etc. has been of great encouragement.
There are good folks among non-liberal gun owners, they're not all homophobes. Orlando seemed to open a lot of eyes in the LGBT community about self-defense, the Pink Pistols were rejuvenate. There are a lot of knowledgeable gun owners here, there are many options for concealed carry.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Newbie in GA

14
highdesert wrote::welcome:
I am grateful to the local gun community, of whatever persuasions, for their advice and assistance. This includes my cousins, whose political persuasions are 180 degrees opposite mine, but whose expertise as competitive shooters, LEOs, veterans, etc. has been of great encouragement.
There are good folks among non-liberal gun owners, they're not all homophobes. Orlando seemed to open a lot of eyes in the LGBT community about self-defense, the Pink Pistols were rejuvenate. There are a lot of knowledgeable gun owners here, there are many options for concealed carry.
My partner tried to make contact with the local chapter of the Pink Pistols, but instead, we found lots of straight allies more than willing to provide tips, training and advice. The staff at the range we frequent treats us with nothing but respect and so far we have purchased 2 pistols from them.

The picture below is Donnie’s first shots with his new Walther PPS M2.

Image



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Re: Newbie in GA

15
Scootnyinzer wrote:
highdesert wrote::welcome:
I am grateful to the local gun community, of whatever persuasions, for their advice and assistance. This includes my cousins, whose political persuasions are 180 degrees opposite mine, but whose expertise as competitive shooters, LEOs, veterans, etc. has been of great encouragement.
There are good folks among non-liberal gun owners, they're not all homophobes. Orlando seemed to open a lot of eyes in the LGBT community about self-defense, the Pink Pistols were rejuvenate. There are a lot of knowledgeable gun owners here, there are many options for concealed carry.
My partner tried to make contact with the local chapter of the Pink Pistols, but instead, we found lots of straight allies more than willing to provide tips, training and advice. The staff at the range we frequent treats us with nothing but respect and so far we have purchased 2 pistols from them.

The picture below is Donnie’s first shots with his new Walther PPS M2.

Image


Nice. I know someone.

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I’m NOT the NRA

Re: Newbie in GA

16
senorgrand wrote:Ya know, if you found a good deal on a used glock, and you ended up liking something better, you could sell it without much economic pain. ;)
Yep: a little wary of buying used first time out though


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I’m NOT the NRA

Re: Newbie in GA

17
Scootnyinzer wrote:
highdesert wrote::welcome:
I am grateful to the local gun community, of whatever persuasions, for their advice and assistance. This includes my cousins, whose political persuasions are 180 degrees opposite mine, but whose expertise as competitive shooters, LEOs, veterans, etc. has been of great encouragement.
There are good folks among non-liberal gun owners, they're not all homophobes. Orlando seemed to open a lot of eyes in the LGBT community about self-defense, the Pink Pistols were rejuvenate. There are a lot of knowledgeable gun owners here, there are many options for concealed carry.
My partner tried to make contact with the local chapter of the Pink Pistols, but instead, we found lots of straight allies more than willing to provide tips, training and advice. The staff at the range we frequent treats us with nothing but respect and so far we have purchased 2 pistols from them.

The picture below is Donnie’s first shots with his new Walther PPS M2.
Donnie is a natural! Glad you found a welcoming group of straight allies.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Newbie in GA

18
DispositionMatrix wrote:Welcome.
HotheadPaisan wrote:I know the Second Amendment gives "a well regulated militia" the right to keep and bear arms.
Actually, the version ratified and authenticated by Jefferson says the following:
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
Those^ two statements are not equivalent.
HotheadPaisan wrote:I want to carry 9mm because a gun has only one purpose--to stop an assailant in his tracks...
If you practice to the extent you should you'll prove yourself wrong. Your G19 will be used for putting holes in paper, which is the primary function of the vast majority of firearms in civilian hands. Target shooting has entertainment value.
HotheadPaisan wrote:And this is why: I actually DO believe in regulation. I don't think everyone should have the right to own a firearm and I am for domestic violence/sexual predator/mental health background checks. Those details must be hashed out by responsible gun owners.

If you can't get a SCUBA tank filled without a C-card, why can you buy ammo without a weapons permit? What is wrong with making a certain number of courses and training hours prerequisites to owning a firearm? You wouldn't even have to let the state register it. Just make it a business practice: don't sell a gun to someone who's never shot one before, or who has insufficient training and range time. Military veterans and police officers obviously would be exempt because they've had sufficient training and experience.
Some restrictions for which you advocated above would be weaponized against <some_group> as the political climate allows. In the past restrictions were used against black people. In the future it will include others, and it might not go your way. Therein lies the problem.

Hey, back off a bit on the new person, Professor Killjoy.

Welcome from Grand Rapids, HHP.
I don't like to think of my self as an artist so much as someone who stares at empty spaces and imagines s--t.

Re: Newbie in GA

19
:welcome: from Wisconsin, sounds like you're off to a nice start with some good information and tutelage.
Shooting by the way can also be fun, not just for personal defense.
See about a .22 semi-auto for some inexpensive fun with target shooting.
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, make violent revolution inevitable.

Re: Newbie in GA

20
First of all, welcome from just north of you in Lexington KY. Second, I hear the concern and compassion regarding having to shoot someone. I can tell you are greatly concerned about the reality of defensive shooting. That tells me that you will fit in well here. These are nice people, and not people who look forward to shooting someone. I too, have looked at de-escalation techniques.
But that being said, I have also experienced an anti-LGBT hate crime. While there was no physical violence, it was still terrifying--and yes I was very thankful that I was armed and trained.

What everyone has said about renting guns is true. When I was first looking for a conceal carry gun, I rented about 10 or 12 guns. I kept notes on which ones I had shot and how I liked them. I took the top 3 and rented them again. Narrowed it to one. If you can't find a place to rent, there might be other members in your area that would go to the range with you and let you shoot their guns. If that doesn't work, I'd be willing to help if you drive up here.

You are going to fit in well here. Welcome
All religions united with government are more or less inimical to liberty. All, separated from government, are compatible with liberty.-Henry Clay
Both oligarch and tyrant mistrust the people, and therefore deprive them of their arms.—Aristotle

Re: Newbie in GA

21
KlownKannon wrote:
DispositionMatrix wrote:Welcome.
HotheadPaisan wrote:I know the Second Amendment gives "a well regulated militia" the right to keep and bear arms.
Actually, the version ratified and authenticated by Jefferson says the following:
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
Those^ two statements are not equivalent.
HotheadPaisan wrote:I want to carry 9mm because a gun has only one purpose--to stop an assailant in his tracks...
If you practice to the extent you should you'll prove yourself wrong. Your G19 will be used for putting holes in paper, which is the primary function of the vast majority of firearms in civilian hands. Target shooting has entertainment value.
HotheadPaisan wrote:And this is why: I actually DO believe in regulation. I don't think everyone should have the right to own a firearm and I am for domestic violence/sexual predator/mental health background checks. Those details must be hashed out by responsible gun owners.

If you can't get a SCUBA tank filled without a C-card, why can you buy ammo without a weapons permit? What is wrong with making a certain number of courses and training hours prerequisites to owning a firearm? You wouldn't even have to let the state register it. Just make it a business practice: don't sell a gun to someone who's never shot one before, or who has insufficient training and range time. Military veterans and police officers obviously would be exempt because they've had sufficient training and experience.
Some restrictions for which you advocated above would be weaponized against <some_group> as the political climate allows. In the past restrictions were used against black people. In the future it will include others, and it might not go your way. Therein lies the problem.

Hey, back off a bit on the new person, Professor Killjoy.

Welcome from Grand Rapids, HHP.
Welcome from Cleveland, Ohio. I bought a Sig P238 because my #1 priority was having a gun that would be easy to conceal. I can put it in my jacket pocket as easy as my wallet. And its an excellent shooter.

But you should rent as many pistols as you can and buy whatever you shoot best, even if it is a smaller caliber than you “think” you need.




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Re: Newbie in GA

22
DispositionMatrix wrote:Welcome.
HotheadPaisan wrote:I know the Second Amendment gives "a well regulated militia" the right to keep and bear arms.
Actually, the version ratified and authenticated by Jefferson says the following:
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
Those^ two statements are not equivalent.
HotheadPaisan wrote:I want to carry 9mm because a gun has only one purpose--to stop an assailant in his tracks...
If you practice to the extent you should you'll prove yourself wrong. Your G19 will be used for putting holes in paper, which is the primary function of the vast majority of firearms in civilian hands. Target shooting has entertainment value.
HotheadPaisan wrote:And this is why: I actually DO believe in regulation. I don't think everyone should have the right to own a firearm and I am for domestic violence/sexual predator/mental health background checks. Those details must be hashed out by responsible gun owners.

If you can't get a SCUBA tank filled without a C-card, why can you buy ammo without a weapons permit? What is wrong with making a certain number of courses and training hours prerequisites to owning a firearm? You wouldn't even have to let the state register it. Just make it a business practice: don't sell a gun to someone who's never shot one before, or who has insufficient training and range time. Military veterans and police officers obviously would be exempt because they've had sufficient training and experience.
Some restrictions for which you advocated above would be weaponized against <some_group> as the political climate allows. In the past restrictions were used against black people. In the future it will include others, and it might not go your way. Therein lies the problem.
A member intro thread in the New Member Intro subforum is probably not the best place to debate stuff. Say hi, you can be Mr. News later.

Re: Newbie in GA

23
Welcome! One of the things I like about this forum is that there are very few things not up for discussion regarding firearms.

As for me, I like punching holes in paper. I can't really comment on carrying for self defense but can say that the best thing to do is try many different firearms and find what fits you best and you can shoot most comfortably and accurately.

Re: Newbie in GA

24
:welcome: from another Georgian! Good to see someone begin this journey with a lot of introspection and thought.

I have a Glock 19 and I love it. It is as reliable as the sunrise. It is my principle home defense pistol. I find it too large for concealed carry however, especially in the hot, muggy summer weather we have here. If you want to carry a 9mm Glock around here in summer you may want to consider a 26 or a 43. Just easier to conceal under light clothing. Glock bonus for us: if you ever do have a problem and you are reasonably close to Atlanta, factory service is available on a carry in basis in Smyrna, no need to ship and deal with FFL transfers, etc.

However I do think Swampgrouch made some excellent points about revolvers. Before carrying any gun, I would work very hard to establish an excellent, second nature level of trigger discipline. One needs that level of trigger discipline to be safe with any gun, carrying or not, but the margin of error with semi autos is smaller than with a revolver's heavier, longer trigger pull. You also need to account for the effects of stress in any self defense situation. Again, a revolver probably has the advantage there. Much easier to pull back from the brink if need be. I don't carry that much, mostly when hiking, but I have a Smith and Wesson 642 snubbie which is normally the gun I take. Harder to learn to shot accurately than a semi but worth the effort in my view.

This has to be about the friendliest gun board for a new shooter you will find. Especially since right wing diatribes about liberals, etc. will never break out in the middle of a thread :D Enjoy!
Member, LGC

Re: Newbie in GA

25
Hiya, Hothead, and welcome. I really enjoyed your intro--best I've read!

I'm pretty much everything different from you, but agreed with about 99% of what you wrote. And my reasons for being here are very much the same.

I shot 10 or 11 different handguns before I made my final decision. Glocks are OK, but they are kinda the Chevys of 9mm plastic handled striker-fired pistols. The 19, latest gen, was my # 3 pick (though, having since shot an HK 30 hammered fired, I really liked it too). There's zillions of aftermarket "fixes" for Glocks, but you kinda need them, especially the sights.

So rent or borrow and shoot lots of stuff to see what REALLY works for you.
"Even if the bee could explain to the fly why pollen is better than shit, the fly could never understand."

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