Re: Newbie in GA

26
Howdy and :welcome: from Oregon, Hothead! :)

Heck of an intro. You touched on the responsibility aspect of gun ownership. That's huge. Be safe and enjoy your journey of exploration! As you practice, your confidence will grow and so, too , will the fun factor. Check out our Bullseye Club in the Competition and Marksmanship forum while you are moseying about. And ask lots of questions- we're a friendly and helpful bunch.

We're glad you are here!

Oh, and don't listen to SenorGrand- Glocks are great. ;) (Just kidding. Try them all!)
"I am not a number, I am a free man!" - Number Six

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Re: Newbie in GA

28
DispositionMatrix wrote:Welcome.
HotheadPaisan wrote:I know the Second Amendment gives "a well regulated militia" the right to keep and bear arms.
Actually, the version ratified and authenticated by Jefferson says the following:
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
Those^ two statements are not equivalent.

Point taken. In general.
HotheadPaisan wrote:I want to carry 9mm because a gun has only one purpose--to stop an assailant in his tracks...
If you practice to the extent you should you'll prove yourself wrong. Your G19 will be used for putting holes in paper, which is the primary function of the vast majority of firearms in civilian hands. Target shooting has entertainment value.

Okay, I might need to shoot a bear during nuclear winter. To me, plinking is about practicing for other eventualities.
HotheadPaisan wrote:And this is why: I actually DO believe in regulation. I don't think everyone should have the right to own a firearm and I am for domestic violence/sexual predator/mental health background checks. Those details must be hashed out by responsible gun owners.

If you can't get a SCUBA tank filled without a C-card, why can you buy ammo without a weapons permit? What is wrong with making a certain number of courses and training hours prerequisites to owning a firearm? You wouldn't even have to let the state register it. Just make it a business practice: don't sell a gun to someone who's never shot one before, or who has insufficient training and range time. Military veterans and police officers obviously would be exempt because they've had sufficient training and experience.
Some restrictions for which you advocated above would be weaponized against <some_group> as the political climate allows. In the past restrictions were used against black people. In the future it will include others, and it might not go your way. Therein lies the problem.
At that point, "only outlaws will have guns." I'm speaking in terms of general availability in peacetime. No one checks permits in foxholes.

More later!
I’m NOT the NRA

Re: Newbie in GA

29
Welcome!

I carry the Glock 19 gen 4 during winter, when I wear multiple layers of clothing up here in Indiana. I can tell you right now that the pistol is not easy to conceal under normal clothing, unless you like wearing a hawaiian shirt or other similarly loose garments. During summer I carry an M&P9 compact, and even that is pushing it. I have had to buy shirts one size up, made out of thicker fabric to minimize 'printing'.

Many folks go one size down and carry a single stack compact, the market is full of them. If you don't mind limited capacity (6-8 rounds), this is a viable option. It's not my preference, because these pistols are harder to shoot well, and I think they're not the best choice for new shooters.

As others said, rent a dozen different guns and shoot them. You'll get a feel of what you like and don't like about the different models.
Glad that federal government is boring again.

Re: Newbie in GA

30
:welcome: Howdy from Seattle!

Nice handle! I'm kinda surprised no one claimed it before now. I had a little collection of Hothead Paisan comics 20 (?) years ago. Awesome stuff. I guess they're still around here somewhere.

May I suggest you look at smallish revolvers as well as automatics? Maybe a Ruger SP101 or LCR; or S&W model 60 or model 10? Not better than a small 9 mm auto, just different. People make a lot of arguments pro and con. Start a thread on this question in the Handguns subforum, if you like. Small handguns in general are tricky to shoot accurately, but precision isn't their raison d'etre. Still, you may find one type suits you better than the other.

Enjoy your next cup of Morning Dump Blend!
IMR4227: Zero to 900 in 0.001 seconds

I'm only killing paper and my self-esteem.

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Re: Newbie in GA

31
Bang wrote:A member intro thread in the New Member Intro subforum is probably not the best place to debate stuff. Say hi, you can be Mr. News later.
There was not a single bit of "News" in my reply, and I did welcome the new participant.
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13ʞ
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Re: Newbie in GA

32
HotheadPaisan wrote:
DispositionMatrix wrote:Welcome.
HotheadPaisan wrote:I know the Second Amendment gives "a well regulated militia" the right to keep and bear arms.
Actually, the version ratified and authenticated by Jefferson says the following:
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
Those^ two statements are not equivalent.

Point taken. In general.
HotheadPaisan wrote:I want to carry 9mm because a gun has only one purpose--to stop an assailant in his tracks...
If you practice to the extent you should you'll prove yourself wrong. Your G19 will be used for putting holes in paper, which is the primary function of the vast majority of firearms in civilian hands. Target shooting has entertainment value.

Okay, I might need to shoot a bear during nuclear winter. To me, plinking is about practicing for other eventualities.
HotheadPaisan wrote:And this is why: I actually DO believe in regulation. I don't think everyone should have the right to own a firearm and I am for domestic violence/sexual predator/mental health background checks. Those details must be hashed out by responsible gun owners.

If you can't get a SCUBA tank filled without a C-card, why can you buy ammo without a weapons permit? What is wrong with making a certain number of courses and training hours prerequisites to owning a firearm? You wouldn't even have to let the state register it. Just make it a business practice: don't sell a gun to someone who's never shot one before, or who has insufficient training and range time. Military veterans and police officers obviously would be exempt because they've had sufficient training and experience.
Some restrictions for which you advocated above would be weaponized against <some_group> as the political climate allows. In the past restrictions were used against black people. In the future it will include others, and it might not go your way. Therein lies the problem.
At that point, "only outlaws will have guns."
"That point" could simply be a party in power hostile to a particular minority and dead set on reinterpreting rules in order to persecute that minority.
HotheadPaisan wrote:I'm speaking in terms of general availability in peacetime.
So was I. Black would-be gun owners/carriers most definitely have been targets of discrimination at the hands of the white power structure during peacetime.
sbɐɯ ʎʇıɔɐdɐɔ pɹɐpuɐʇs ɟo ןןnɟ ǝɟɐs
ɯɯ6 bdd ɹǝɥʇןɐʍ
13ʞ
"ǝuıqɹɐɔ 1ɐ4ɯ" dɯɐʇsןןoɹ --- ɯoɔos0269ǝן ʇןoɔ
"ǝuıqɹɐɔ ʇuǝɯǝɔɹoɟuǝ ʍɐן sʇןoɔ" dɯɐʇsןןoɹ --- 0269ǝן ʇןoɔ
(béɟ) 59-pɯɐ

Re: Newbie in GA

33
Scootnyinzer wrote:
KlownKannon wrote:
DispositionMatrix wrote:Welcome.
HotheadPaisan wrote:I know the Second Amendment gives "a well regulated militia" the right to keep and bear arms.
Actually, the version ratified and authenticated by Jefferson says the following:
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
Those^ two statements are not equivalent.
HotheadPaisan wrote:I want to carry 9mm because a gun has only one purpose--to stop an assailant in his tracks...
If you practice to the extent you should you'll prove yourself wrong. Your G19 will be used for putting holes in paper, which is the primary function of the vast majority of firearms in civilian hands. Target shooting has entertainment value.
HotheadPaisan wrote:And this is why: I actually DO believe in regulation. I don't think everyone should have the right to own a firearm and I am for domestic violence/sexual predator/mental health background checks. Those details must be hashed out by responsible gun owners.

If you can't get a SCUBA tank filled without a C-card, why can you buy ammo without a weapons permit? What is wrong with making a certain number of courses and training hours prerequisites to owning a firearm? You wouldn't even have to let the state register it. Just make it a business practice: don't sell a gun to someone who's never shot one before, or who has insufficient training and range time. Military veterans and police officers obviously would be exempt because they've had sufficient training and experience.
Some restrictions for which you advocated above would be weaponized against <some_group> as the political climate allows. In the past restrictions were used against black people. In the future it will include others, and it might not go your way. Therein lies the problem.

Hey, back off a bit on the new person, Professor Killjoy.

Welcome from Grand Rapids, HHP.
Welcome from Cleveland, Ohio. I bought a Sig P238 because my #1 priority was having a gun that would be easy to conceal. I can put it in my jacket pocket as easy as my wallet. And its an excellent shooter.

But you should rent as many pistols as you can and buy whatever you shoot best, even if it is a smaller caliber than you “think” you need.




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This^.
sbɐɯ ʎʇıɔɐdɐɔ pɹɐpuɐʇs ɟo ןןnɟ ǝɟɐs
ɯɯ6 bdd ɹǝɥʇןɐʍ
13ʞ
"ǝuıqɹɐɔ 1ɐ4ɯ" dɯɐʇsןןoɹ --- ɯoɔos0269ǝן ʇןoɔ
"ǝuıqɹɐɔ ʇuǝɯǝɔɹoɟuǝ ʍɐן sʇןoɔ" dɯɐʇsןןoɹ --- 0269ǝן ʇןoɔ
(béɟ) 59-pɯɐ

Re: Newbie in GA

34
DispositionMatrix wrote:
Scootnyinzer wrote:
KlownKannon wrote:
DispositionMatrix wrote:Welcome. Actually, the version ratified and authenticated by Jefferson says the following: Those^ two statements are not equivalent. If you practice to the extent you should you'll prove yourself wrong. Your G19 will be used for putting holes in paper, which is the primary function of the vast majority of firearms in civilian hands. Target shooting has entertainment value. Some restrictions for which you advocated above would be weaponized against <some_group> as the political climate allows. In the past restrictions were used against black people. In the future it will include others, and it might not go your way. Therein lies the problem.

Hey, back off a bit on the new person, Professor Killjoy.

Welcome from Grand Rapids, HHP.
Welcome from Cleveland, Ohio. I bought a Sig P238 because my #1 priority was having a gun that would be easy to conceal. I can put it in my jacket pocket as easy as my wallet. And its an excellent shooter.

But you should rent as many pistols as you can and buy whatever you shoot best, even if it is a smaller caliber than you “think” you need.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
This^.

Of course, if carried what I shot best regardless of caliber size, I’d be carrying a .22 Browning BuckMark:)

One generally accepted drill is to be able to place 5 shots in a 5” target from 5 yards in 5 secs. I was able to hit this benchmark with 90% of my shots with a Sig P238 after a few hundred rounds of practice and some brief training on grip, trigger control and breathing.


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Re: Newbie in GA

36
Personally, I'm a big fan of 9mm Luger because it's so versatile and ubiquitous. Most semi-automatic handguns have a 9mm version, like Glock, Sig Sauer, H-K, Walther, Beretta, S&W. There are a more limited number of revolvers that use 9mm, but they exist, made by S&W, Chiappa, and Ruger, for example.
There are also a respectable number of 9mm rifles, aka PCCs for "Pistol Caliber Carbines". They don't have the range or power of true rifle rounds, but reach out much further than pistols and are generally lighter and more compact than the others. There are even a few AR-15s chambered in 9mm.

But when it comes to ammo choices, just in 9mm, it gets overwhelming! Good quality 115grain FMJ goes for $.20 /round or less.
"Even if the bee could explain to the fly why pollen is better than shit, the fly could never understand."

Re: Newbie in GA

37
Buck13 wrote::welcome: Howdy from Seattle!

Nice handle! I'm kinda surprised no one claimed it before now. I had a little collection of Hothead Paisan comics 20 (?) years ago. Awesome stuff. I guess they're still around here somewhere.

May I suggest you look at smallish revolvers as well as automatics? Maybe a Ruger SP101 or LCR; or S&W model 60 or model 10? Not better than a small 9 mm auto, just different. People make a lot of arguments pro and con. Start a thread on this question in the Handguns subforum, if you like. Small handguns in general are tricky to shoot accurately, but precision isn't their raison d'etre. Still, you may find one type suits you better than the other.

Enjoy your next cup of Morning Dump Blend!
LOLOL!!!

I was kinda surprised, too, but it's mine now!
I’m NOT the NRA
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Re: Newbie in GA

38
Howdy from Houston! :welcome:

Sounds like you've been thinking about this a lot, and that's great! I myself got a concealed carry permit because of the rising anti-LGBT attitudes and other right wing extremist talk (and sometimes action), so I think I know where you're coming from.

The only advice I could offer on guns for concealed carry would be to keep trying out more guns, but also to pay attention to their weight. When I first started carrying I used a Ruger American Pistol, but I quickly found it to be too heavy for carrying comfortably. Now I've got a Walther PK380 and that's worked out much better for me.
DispositionMatrix wrote: If you practice to the extent you should you'll prove yourself wrong. Your G19 will be used for putting holes in paper, which is the primary function of the vast majority of firearms in civilian hands. Target shooting has entertainment value.
I have to agree with this. For years I went to the range very little - just enough to keep my skills at the "can hit the broad side of a barn" level - but recently I've gotten into precision shooting for fun and now I'm going 2 or 3 times a week. It helps that I also now have a .22LR pistol, because the .22LR ammunition is MUCH less expensive than 9mm and I can afford to go shooting a lot more often.

In fact, since you are still looking at guns, you might want to try out a .22LR gun if you can. While it wouldn't make a great gun for carrying, having it would let you get in a lot more practice to improve your skills.


Also, um, you made me go to Amazon and order the Complete Hothead Paisan. Been too many years since I read that. :D
106+ recreational uses of firearms
1 defensive use
0 people injured
0 people killed

Re: Newbie in GA

39
Eris wrote: Also, um, you made me go to Amazon and order the Complete Hothead Paisan. Been too many years since I read that. :D
Damn! I'm so old I don't even have a clue what that is! Give a Baby Boomer a break here!
"Even if the bee could explain to the fly why pollen is better than shit, the fly could never understand."

Re: Newbie in GA

43
Eris wrote:It helps that I also now have a .22LR pistol, because the .22LR ammunition is MUCH less expensive than 9mm and I can afford to go shooting a lot more often.

In fact, since you are still looking at guns, you might want to try out a .22LR gun if you can. While it wouldn't make a great gun for carrying, having it would let you get in a lot more practice to improve your skills.
Wise words. I doubt the .22 would ever "pay for itself," since hopefully you would shoot a lot more, not just the same number of rounds that you would budget for 9 mm or .38 Special* practice (and it would take a lot of ammo for the difference between 9 mm and .22 to add up to the cost of a gun), but if you bought a good used .22, which would basically never depreciate unless you let it rust or they were banned (or made almost untransferable), when you sold it off later for virtually the same price you could then consider yourself money ahead.

And they're just fun and rewarding to shoot. You can get one that is a close approximation of a carry gun (e.g. Ruger LCR or S&W M&P22) or a larger, more target-oriented version (S&W Model 17 6" barrel, Ruger MkII/MkIII/MkIV**, Ruger Single Six/Ten, Browning Buckmark, Hi-Standard, etc., etc.) Ideally, one would have both, but if you have to choose, I'd start with the bigger version, the bigger the better. They are much easier to shoot with accuracy at greater than bad-breath distances, which is more fun, I reckon. At least some of the skills are transferable (although how "realistic" *any* range practice can be is debatable). In fact, I'd say get a .22, any .22, FIRST and see how you like being a gun owner and going to the range on the regular. If you don't enjoy shooting a .22, you won't enjoy shooting, full stop.

*When I mentioned revolvers above, I was thinking .38/.357 since that is the most readily available ammo. A .32 H&R or .327 Magnum would be cool, but not the most obvious choice for a first gun, unless you *want* to be a weirdo.

**The MkII and MkIII have a reputation for being hard to disassemble for cleaning, or mostly, hard to get back together correctly. There's some justification for that, but these days, not so much. If you watch the right two YouTube videos, you'll learn all the secret tricks. I can do it more-or-less reliably, which means anyone can! I also don't find that I need to clean mine very often. It runs fine with a lot of grime in it, which may be because it's old and well-worn. The used market is awash with these guns. They're fairly accurate and reliable, and IMHO everyone should own at least one. But the Buckmark is also pretty sweet!
IMR4227: Zero to 900 in 0.001 seconds

I'm only killing paper and my self-esteem.

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Re: Newbie in GA

45
Buck13 wrote: A .32 H&R or .327 Magnum would be cool, but not the most obvious choice for a first gun, unless you *want* to be a weirdo.
I resemble that remark!
All religions united with government are more or less inimical to liberty. All, separated from government, are compatible with liberty.-Henry Clay
Both oligarch and tyrant mistrust the people, and therefore deprive them of their arms.—Aristotle

Re: Newbie in GA

46
My CZ Kadet Conversion .22LR conversion kit cost me around $400. If I take the difference between what I was spending on 9mm Luger and what I'm paying on average for .22LR the difference is .14$. To make up the $400, I'd need to shoot about 2858 rounds of .22LR through the Kadet. In the past few years I've definitely done that, probably over 3K. Only reason it's not more is I bought a K-22! :roflmao: It's definitely possible for a .22LR to pay for itself.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: Newbie in GA

47
Eris wrote:
YankeeTarheel wrote:
Eris wrote: Also, um, you made me go to Amazon and order the Complete Hothead Paisan. Been too many years since I read that. :D
Damn! I'm so old I don't even have a clue what that is! Give a Baby Boomer a break here!
Hothead Paisan: Homicidal Lesbian Terrorist
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hothead_Paisan
Yikes! Thanks, I think... :see_stars: (Wonder if they make Kevlar athletic cups :blink: )
"Even if the bee could explain to the fly why pollen is better than shit, the fly could never understand."

Re: Newbie in GA

49
Hiker wrote:
Buck13 wrote: A .32 H&R or .327 Magnum would be cool, but not the most obvious choice for a first gun, unless you *want* to be a weirdo.
I resemble that remark!
Of course you do! We wouldn't want it any other way. :beer2:

I'm surprised anyone is reading my gibberish that closely. Pleased, of course, but surprised. (Will anyone get that movie reference?)
IMR4227: Zero to 900 in 0.001 seconds

I'm only killing paper and my self-esteem.

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