I was shooting the bullseye match at my local LGS indoor range this morning when four guys dressed in LEO type uniforms came in. They had the belts, handcuffs, flashlights etc. but no pistols. They did, however, have a long gun. They setup two targets: an elephant and a lion, both with targets on the chest and head. Turns out they were San Diego Zoo Security.
On my way out, the old guy on the range counter asked if my ears were ringing. I said yeah that sucker was loud but the gun didn't look like it was big enough for elephants. Well it's all they've got he says, it's a .375 H&H. Then he shows me a cartridge case. Yeah, that's pretty big, says I. He did say he also thought that the rifle didn't look much bigger than a 30-06. Turns out they have to qualify so they can provide backup to the keepers. Makes sense, I suppose. But I'd never thought about it before.
Re: Africa safari kinda!
2The Apple Valley zoo, outside Minneapolis, put in a grizzly bear exhibit and have several secure rifle racks hidden out of view but handy to the bears, just in case. The bears look so cute, behind plexiglass walls.
Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children what it was once like in the United States where men were free.
- Ronald Reagan
- Ronald Reagan
Re: Africa safari kinda!
3The right to arm bears?dougb wrote:The Apple Valley zoo, outside Minneapolis, put in a grizzly bear exhibit and have several secure rifle racks hidden out of view but handy to the bears, just in case.
Re: Africa safari kinda!
4Cool story.
I'd like to see one of those pieces of brass in my collection.
Need a bigger armed bear pic, though...
CDFingers
I'd like to see one of those pieces of brass in my collection.
Need a bigger armed bear pic, though...
CDFingers
Crazy cat peekin' through a lace bandana
like a one-eyed Cheshire, like a diamond-eyed Jack
like a one-eyed Cheshire, like a diamond-eyed Jack
Re: Africa safari kinda!
5http://www.wlwt.com/news/police-respond ... o/39773436
Just heard this on the radio:
"Zoo director Thayne Maynard said that the boy crawled through the railing and fell into the moat just before 4 p.m. A Cincinnati fire department incident report says that the gorilla "was violently dragging and throwing the child" when they were called.
The child was in between the gorilla's legs when the gorilla was shot, fire officials said."
Just heard this on the radio:
"Zoo director Thayne Maynard said that the boy crawled through the railing and fell into the moat just before 4 p.m. A Cincinnati fire department incident report says that the gorilla "was violently dragging and throwing the child" when they were called.
The child was in between the gorilla's legs when the gorilla was shot, fire officials said."
Puffing up is no substitute for smarts but it's a common home remedy
Re: Africa safari kinda!
6startCDFingers wrote:
Need a bigger armed bear pic, though...
CDFingers
paint
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i'm retired. what's your excuse?
Re: Africa safari kinda!
7This has been in the news a bit since. There's much to this event that leaves me wondering. In reviewing safety protocols I'd recommend zoos require a child safety harness for children under 10 or ones that just can't seem to understand instructions. Like this:Simmer down wrote:http://www.wlwt.com/news/police-respond ... o/39773436
Just heard this on the radio:
"Zoo director Thayne Maynard said that the boy crawled through the railing and fell into the moat just before 4 p.m. A Cincinnati fire department incident report says that the gorilla "was violently dragging and throwing the child" when they were called.
The child was in between the gorilla's legs when the gorilla was shot, fire officials said."
http://www.childharness.ca/
It would be relatively easy to restrict areas of zoos from the public and rent safety equipment prior to allowing entry to areas of concern. Nothing is a hundred percent even then. I wasn't there so my comment is more of a future reflection since this isn't the first time a child has fallen or wandered into an animals habitat.
Re: Africa safari kinda!
8People are protesting shooting the ape. Talk about a no win situation. Non of the protesters were there, volunteering to go in a take the child from the ape.
Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children what it was once like in the United States where men were free.
- Ronald Reagan
- Ronald Reagan
Re: Africa safari kinda!
9Lot of emotion on all sides on this one. It does bring up the value of unrestricted viewing of animals that are so dangerous that the people tasked with it's daily care dare not approach it. Especially considering in this case the species is endangered it would in my view be prudent to review admission and protocol. I don't think I needed to be there to know there was a failure in the system. In this case a momentary lapse of the parents attention and a naturally curious child. There is obvious responsibility and risk involved in visiting any location with animals that may potentially harm the visitors. I recall reading about safari tour trips in Africa where individuals wander off during the night even though they are told not to without an armed guide and end up eaten by a lion. Zoos in some respect are the same. We create natural like habitats for very large and often dangerous animals. There is a false sense of safety for most zoo visitors and it wouldn't hurt to do more public service announcements to increase awareness.dougb wrote:People are protesting shooting the ape. Talk about a no win situation. Non of the protesters were there, volunteering to go in a take the child from the ape.
Since this thread was started by a chance meeting at a range, I am curious if the type of rifle used in sedation and lethal events is the same?
Re: Africa safari kinda!
10I think apologizing for the death of the ape was the better choice.dougb wrote:People are protesting shooting the ape. Talk about a no win situation. Non of the protesters were there, volunteering to go in a take the child from the ape.
Puffing up is no substitute for smarts but it's a common home remedy
Re: Africa safari kinda!
11I blame Disney. They make animals seem to get along and make them too human.
Last year a drunk lady broke into the zoo and tried to pet one of the tigers. It was 7:30 in the morning so being really drunk was sort of odd. She didn't lose her hand at least, but she didn't get it back in 100% condition. They will be tearing down and rebuilding the big Cat exhibit in the future to make that sort of thing impossible.
The zoo here has been remodeling their enclosures over the last several decades to make them into more natural habitats. I think they also do it to separate the animals from people; in order to protect the animals better. The zoo had 60,000 people visit the new Elephant exhibit this weekend and will probably have more than 2 million visitors by year end. That's a lot of people to increase the probability someone will do something stupid.
I understand this zoo's response, but a cheap low voltage electric fence and the edge of the drop off would have keep the kid out. A little shock would have sent him running back to mom. It seems like the zoo should have another layer built in there somewhere. At least the kid survived the initial fall.
I think they should have tried to tranquilize first and if he seemed to get agitated more then up the response to shooting.
These Gorillas are very strong though. One of them at the Omaha zoo cracked a layer of the safety glass after some kids were beating their chests and it took that as a challenge. They have 3 layers of 1/2 inch safety glass for that very reason.
http://www.ketv.com/news/video-gorilla- ... o/32420150
Last year a drunk lady broke into the zoo and tried to pet one of the tigers. It was 7:30 in the morning so being really drunk was sort of odd. She didn't lose her hand at least, but she didn't get it back in 100% condition. They will be tearing down and rebuilding the big Cat exhibit in the future to make that sort of thing impossible.
The zoo here has been remodeling their enclosures over the last several decades to make them into more natural habitats. I think they also do it to separate the animals from people; in order to protect the animals better. The zoo had 60,000 people visit the new Elephant exhibit this weekend and will probably have more than 2 million visitors by year end. That's a lot of people to increase the probability someone will do something stupid.
I understand this zoo's response, but a cheap low voltage electric fence and the edge of the drop off would have keep the kid out. A little shock would have sent him running back to mom. It seems like the zoo should have another layer built in there somewhere. At least the kid survived the initial fall.
I think they should have tried to tranquilize first and if he seemed to get agitated more then up the response to shooting.
These Gorillas are very strong though. One of them at the Omaha zoo cracked a layer of the safety glass after some kids were beating their chests and it took that as a challenge. They have 3 layers of 1/2 inch safety glass for that very reason.
http://www.ketv.com/news/video-gorilla- ... o/32420150
Brian
Re: Africa safari kinda!
12This same thought occured to me as well. I fear they waited too long. The option to terminate might have still been there if several weapons were trained on the animal. But, I have no knowledge of how any living being reacts to being shot with a tranquilizer dart. Since my experience with this is nill I'll just keep wondering. There is a finality to the use of a weapon for defense.inomaha wrote: <edit snip>
I think they should have tried to tranquilize first and if he seemed to get agitated more then up the response to shooting.
<edit snip>
I'm wondering how they do health checks. Slip something in the food?
Re: Africa safari kinda!
13I found it mighty silly watching tv this weekend to see a 300 pound burly man holding a sign and crying about the Cincinnati incident.
I don't care how a child got in the enclosure; you deal with that later.
I don't care that the animal rights people are going to lose their minds; you deal with that later.
All someone needs to know is there is a mofo silverback gorilla holding a toddler. You shoot him, it's not a hard call.
I don't care how a child got in the enclosure; you deal with that later.
I don't care that the animal rights people are going to lose their minds; you deal with that later.
All someone needs to know is there is a mofo silverback gorilla holding a toddler. You shoot him, it's not a hard call.
Re: Africa safari kinda!
14^+many. Fix it later so it can't happen again but the safety of the child is preeminent.
Re: Africa safari kinda!
15That's the general sentiment I think most would have assumed. As you mentioned, I think the zookeepers waited too long and/or were slow to respond to the initial situation. With any defensive SOP, you'd think they'd have layers of deterrence/non-lethal measures long before it went to lethal force.sikacz wrote:This same thought occured to me as well. I fear they waited too long. The option to terminate might have still been there if several weapons were trained on the animal. But, I have no knowledge of how any living being reacts to being shot with a tranquilizer dart. Since my experience with this is nill I'll just keep wondering. There is a finality to the use of a weapon for defense.inomaha wrote: <edit snip>
I think they should have tried to tranquilize first and if he seemed to get agitated more then up the response to shooting.
<edit snip>
LGC Texas - Vice President
Re: Africa safari kinda!
16http://nypost.com/2014/11/02/3-animals- ... -children/
I'd be in favor of closing zoos to the public if our first and primary method is going to be lethal. Or at the very least not allow children in areas where the lives of other animals would be threatened by their presence. Humans claims zoos are for conservation and education, neither is served by any death human animal or other animal. Perhaps the best place for conservation is in natural habitats where humans are not allowed to enter. And it's also possible that at some point an endangered species might best be let to die off. I see all life as connected be it a squirrel, cat or human. Humans are classified as Great Apes just like the gorilla. At times like this I don't see the reason for zoos as they exist.
Agreed atxgunguy and if those scenerios are not worked out before hand and practiced then zoos may be history.
I'd be in favor of closing zoos to the public if our first and primary method is going to be lethal. Or at the very least not allow children in areas where the lives of other animals would be threatened by their presence. Humans claims zoos are for conservation and education, neither is served by any death human animal or other animal. Perhaps the best place for conservation is in natural habitats where humans are not allowed to enter. And it's also possible that at some point an endangered species might best be let to die off. I see all life as connected be it a squirrel, cat or human. Humans are classified as Great Apes just like the gorilla. At times like this I don't see the reason for zoos as they exist.
Agreed atxgunguy and if those scenerios are not worked out before hand and practiced then zoos may be history.