I know Nosler accubonds and ballistic tips are supposed to act in this manner within the same weight class, but I'm talking different weight class.
I am using Warne Quick Detach rings and am considering having 2 different scopes sighted in for 2 different bullets of different weights (within the same family though ie. 150gr core-lokt spire point and 180gr core-lokt round nose).
Obviously there would be a change in point of impact between the two rounds, which would be a moot point since they would have their separate scope.
What could screw this up is fouling shots - are they generally needed when switching over to a bullet made of the exact same materials and just a different weight? Perhaps the length of the bullet and how it interacts with the rifling might mess the barrel up a little?
In case I have confused anyone
If I'm shooting 180gr core-lokt and then switch my scopes out to one that is supposed to shoot a 150gr core-lokt 2" high at 100, would my first shot with 150's shoot 2" high?
Any thoughts?
Thanks
Re: 2 scopes using 2 different bullets?
2Why not just record the number of clicks needed to switch from one to another? A second scope seems to be overkill. Particularly if you have a scope where you can use the zero-reset function for whatever you're shooting the most of.
As to the flyer, I don't see why it would make any difference which bullet you were shooting previously, it usually refers to a clean barrel, as long as you are doing your part.
As to the flyer, I don't see why it would make any difference which bullet you were shooting previously, it usually refers to a clean barrel, as long as you are doing your part.
Re: 2 scopes using 2 different bullets?
3I prefer the shinzen method, though I might have to write the number of clicks on my forehead. I don't understand the significance of your 'fouling shot' though. I think it refers to the rifled bore, not the freebore.
The universe - is what it is.
Re: 2 scopes using 2 different bullets?
4Easy to remember. Tape a note on the inside of your scope cap.
Honestly I think you'd potentially introduce more variables by detaching and reattaching a different scope than by using the adjustments on a single scope.
Honestly I think you'd potentially introduce more variables by detaching and reattaching a different scope than by using the adjustments on a single scope.
Re: 2 scopes using 2 different bullets?
5The problem I have with 1 scope is I've never had scope adjustments (including Leupold and Bushnell Elite) that was in any which way shape or form dependable. You think it is supposed to adjust 2" and it adjusts 1 1/4". To make matters worse you can lose count going too fast or a couple clicks might be mushy.shinzen wrote:Why not just record the number of clicks needed to switch from one to another? A second scope seems to be overkill. Particularly if you have a scope where you can use the zero-reset function for whatever you're shooting the most of.
As to the flyer, I don't see why it would make any difference which bullet you were shooting previously, it usually refers to a clean barrel, as long as you are doing your part.
Another benefit to two scopes is you're going on a deer drive, you switch out your 3-9 with a 1-4. If you are going to hunt the bean field in the evening, then you switch back to your 3-9.
Warne quick detach mounts are the best in the industry and only have a difference of something like .001moa. They are really the only brand on the market that can be trusted.
As to the fouling, it does go beyond just a clean barrel. Different bullets have different or no film or lube (22's are even more picky because you have copper vs all lead to potentially think about). If you are used to shooting say Power Points and you wish to re-sight your gun in for XP3's, I would shoot 5 shots before even thinking about messing with the scope because the first few shots are going to hit all over the place.
The difference between what I just wrote above and my question pertains to sticking with the exact same bullet, just a different weight of that bullet. I don't know if that makes a difference or not.
Re: 2 scopes using 2 different bullets?
6To each his own.
As to a coating though, that's on cast or pure lead factory bullets, not usually on copper jacketed rifle bullets. Powder charges may vary from batch to batch, particularly in factory loads, which will change the POI. All over the place though? 5 rounds before anything? Even on a clean barrel with a good rifle it shouldn't be all over the place. Otherwise the precision rifle folks would be screwed when they had to clean their guns between rounds.
http://www.accurateshooter.com/technica ... ng-debate/
As to a coating though, that's on cast or pure lead factory bullets, not usually on copper jacketed rifle bullets. Powder charges may vary from batch to batch, particularly in factory loads, which will change the POI. All over the place though? 5 rounds before anything? Even on a clean barrel with a good rifle it shouldn't be all over the place. Otherwise the precision rifle folks would be screwed when they had to clean their guns between rounds.
http://www.accurateshooter.com/technica ... ng-debate/
Re: 2 scopes using 2 different bullets?
7"All over the place" was a bit over the top on my part. It will move an inch or so, enough to leave you frustrated if you automatically start adjusting the scope.shinzen wrote:To each his own.
As to a coating though, that's on cast or pure lead factory bullets, not usually on copper jacketed rifle bullets. Powder charges may vary from batch to batch, particularly in factory loads, which will change the POI. All over the place though? 5 rounds before anything? Even on a clean barrel with a good rifle it shouldn't be all over the place. Otherwise the precision rifle folks would be screwed when they had to clean their guns between rounds.
http://www.accurateshooter.com/technica ... ng-debate/
Copper jacketed bullets, you are probably right. A lot of the poly tipped (especially from winchester) have a lube on them.
Re: 2 scopes using 2 different bullets?
8Just remember, 1 inch of movement is still well within the kill shot range for about anything you could be hunting with that rifle
Re: 2 scopes using 2 different bullets?
9This is all way above my head, but I would recommend looking at a good scope that serious reloaders use. There are probably many that can be recommended by those rifle shooters who are trying to scrape-together an additional .05 MOA from their reloads.
It sounds like you're trying to do open heart surgery with a swiss army knife. I think you may need to invest in a serious new tool to get this job done.
You could also just break-down and get a second rifle.
It sounds like you're trying to do open heart surgery with a swiss army knife. I think you may need to invest in a serious new tool to get this job done.
You could also just break-down and get a second rifle.
Re: 2 scopes using 2 different bullets?
10Spend two shitty scopes worth of money to get one with adjustments that actually work?
Re: 2 scopes using 2 different bullets?
11Hah. That is disgustingly logical. I like sg's 2nd rifle idea. With slings, one could have both rifles with him at all times. Well, maybe not when hauling laundry. Um, or at the bowling alley.Fukshot wrote:Spend two shitty scopes worth of money to get one with adjustments that actually work?
The universe - is what it is.
Re: 2 scopes using 2 different bullets?
12Yep. My Nikon is pretty spot on for adjustments.Fukshot wrote:Spend two shitty scopes worth of money to get one with adjustments that actually work?
Re: 2 scopes using 2 different bullets?
13If a problem can be solved by getting another gun, I'm for it!hillman wrote: I like sg's 2nd rifle idea.
Re: 2 scopes using 2 different bullets?
14I'll third the notion of using the clicks. If the mechanism of the scope is a bit gummy, the adjustment might not "take" until the second shot. Some shooters will rap the scope with a knuckle to ensure the adjustment moves correctly.
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CDFingers
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Re: 2 scopes using 2 different bullets?
15I like the suggestion of having two rifles - one for each load, but SWMBO vetoed that. Well she thinks she vetoed it, but I have kind of dealt with it by using different caliber rifles. But it is still a lovely idea.
So, what I have decided is to shoot only 150 g for my 30/30, 100g for my .243, 158 for a .308, etc. Also, I tend to try and use the same ammo manufacturer and bullet type. This was suggested to me by a very serious reloader.
I too agree scopes will not always fire straight the first time after an adjustment, so I also rap or tap the top a bit after adjusting it. I think it works, but I cannot swear to it. I do offer that Remington Core Loc is my ammo of choice, cost vs. accuracy, etc.
Believe it or not, it is also a problem with rimfire rifles and I have a bunch of them. My solution is to fire the ammo that shoots best out of each, which tends to be a rimfire issue more than a center fire issue, although it can be a center fire issue with some brands. E.g., my CZ 452 Lux 22 WMR loves Federal and shoots CCI ok, but not winchester. Whereas my Savage Mark II shoots nearly every type of 22 lr ammo as does our Marlin 925 and Model 60s. The long process is learning which type of ammo, size, velocity, the rifle shoots best.
So, what I have decided is to shoot only 150 g for my 30/30, 100g for my .243, 158 for a .308, etc. Also, I tend to try and use the same ammo manufacturer and bullet type. This was suggested to me by a very serious reloader.
I too agree scopes will not always fire straight the first time after an adjustment, so I also rap or tap the top a bit after adjusting it. I think it works, but I cannot swear to it. I do offer that Remington Core Loc is my ammo of choice, cost vs. accuracy, etc.
Believe it or not, it is also a problem with rimfire rifles and I have a bunch of them. My solution is to fire the ammo that shoots best out of each, which tends to be a rimfire issue more than a center fire issue, although it can be a center fire issue with some brands. E.g., my CZ 452 Lux 22 WMR loves Federal and shoots CCI ok, but not winchester. Whereas my Savage Mark II shoots nearly every type of 22 lr ammo as does our Marlin 925 and Model 60s. The long process is learning which type of ammo, size, velocity, the rifle shoots best.
Re: 2 scopes using 2 different bullets?
16This is why I prefer a scope with hash marks of some sort. Then it's a simple matter of recording the hold overs and eventually having a laminated card taped to the stock.
For example, with my 18" 6.8mm with a 3-9 I know that S&B 115 gr FMJ is on at 50, 1 hash down at 100, on at 200, and 1.5 hash up at 300. No need to change the settings.
If I change ammo I'll record those hold overs too. Mostly I'll be using the FMJ for practice, and other for hunting, so this works for me. YMMV
For example, with my 18" 6.8mm with a 3-9 I know that S&B 115 gr FMJ is on at 50, 1 hash down at 100, on at 200, and 1.5 hash up at 300. No need to change the settings.
If I change ammo I'll record those hold overs too. Mostly I'll be using the FMJ for practice, and other for hunting, so this works for me. YMMV
"In every generation there are those who want to rule well - but they mean to rule. They promise to be good masters - but they mean to be masters." — Daniel Webster
Re: 2 scopes using 2 different bullets?
17I find the mill dot reticles have way too much going on inside there for my taste. I'm also not a huge fan of the regular Leupold duplex that is smushed together compared to other brands, but I'll live with it.rascally wrote:This is why I prefer a scope with hash marks of some sort. Then it's a simple matter of recording the hold overs and eventually having a laminated card taped to the stock.
For example, with my 18" 6.8mm with a 3-9 I know that S&B 115 gr FMJ is on at 50, 1 hash down at 100, on at 200, and 1.5 hash up at 300. No need to change the settings.
If I change ammo I'll record those hold overs too. Mostly I'll be using the FMJ for practice, and other for hunting, so this works for me. YMMV
Rangefinders and superduper magnums have popularized long range shooting and hunting over especially the last 15 years. Although I have a rangefinder now, I wouldn't have a problem estimating the range of a deer through the scope.
I still use the popular shooting method of: dead on at 200 and hold on the back for anything over 300. If the bullet won't hit without holdover, it's too far to be shooting anyway.
Re: 2 scopes using 2 different bullets?
18and bring a mirror so you can read it.hillman wrote:I might have to write the number of clicks on my forehead.
i'm retired. what's your excuse?