Cordite in my 303 British

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I have a bunch of Pakistani surplus 303 that reliably click-bangs. I just had to take one apart to see what's inside. Looks like it's packing a 174 grain ball with a pretty substantial crimp groove. Nonetheless, it came apart after two moderate hits in the kinetic puller. I've worked much harder at pulling apart some pistol rounds.
Before I pulled it apart, I shook the cartridge and heard nothing. Well, as it turns out, that is because the case is packed with I believe to be Cordite and topped off with a tight paper wad. Looks like whole wheat angel hair pasta.
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The Enfield I use to shoot this stuff is pretty cherry, and I'd like to keep it that way. I clean the barrel asap after shooting but I am not familiar with the properties of Cordite. Should I shitcan this stuff and just use factory or my own loads?
Hell is where:
The British are the chefs
The Swiss are the lovers
The French are the mechanics
The Italians make everything run on time
And the Germans are the police

Re: Cordite in my 303 British

2
Cordite is fine as long as it stays dry. If you don't want to use it, it does make excellent fertilizer. I would NOT use it to reload, but that's due to not having a recipe at my disposal that would work.
In a bacon, egg and cheese sandwich the chicken and cow are involved while the pig is committed.

Re: Cordite in my 303 British

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atxgunguy wrote:Cordite was produced in "cord powder" strands, exactly like that of the image in the OP. The length of the strands dictate burn rate and...IIRC, it's corrosive, that's about all I know.


It's actually "erosive" not "corrosive" and that is mostly because it burns at a higher temperature than nitro powder. There was a lot of trouble with the steel and rifling form used in early Enfield barrels, so they were changed to accomplish longer barrel life. :geek:
Merle from PA


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Re: Cordite in my 303 British

7
Most interesting historical look at where gunpowder came from. Thanks for giving me something to do a bit of research on, as it's a fascinating topic as a reloader.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smokeless_powder

One of the interesting parts is here:
Britain conducted trials on all the various types of propellant brought to their attention, but were dissatisfied with them all and sought something superior to all existing types. In 1889, Sir Frederick Abel, James Dewar and Dr W Kellner patented (Nos 5614 and 11,664 in the names of Abel and Dewar) a new formulation that was manufactured at the Royal Gunpowder Factory at Waltham Abbey. It entered British service in 1891 as Cordite Mark 1. Its main composition was 58% Nitro-glycerine, 37% Guncotton and 3% mineral jelly. A modified version, Cordite MD, entered service in 1901, this increased guncotton to 65% and reduced nitro-glycerine to 30%, this change reduced the combustion temperature and hence erosion and barrel wear. Cordite's advantages over gunpowder were reduced maximum pressure in the chamber (hence lighter breeches, etc.) but longer high pressure. Cordite could be made in any desired shape or size.[15] The creation of cordite led to a lengthy court battle between Nobel, Maxim, and another inventor over alleged British patent infringement.
Someone more knowledgeable than will probably jump in, as mine's just internet speculation and reading. My initial take is that the older stuff may have been an issue, but with newer cartridges it shouldn't be an issue. That would be my first guess. Also the early erosion was likely due to the design and softer metals being built for Black Powder, so smokeless or this cordite stuff would probably cause premature wear.

It's from Pakistan though, so that could be different. Would be interesting to see the chart and see what the actual heat difference is.
“Do the best you can until you know better. Then when you know better, do better.”
- Maya Angelou

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Re: Cordite in my 303 British

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hillman wrote:Seems to me that neither click-bang nor 'burns at a higher temperature' are commendable attributes.
Agreed. But free is.
Hell is where:
The British are the chefs
The Swiss are the lovers
The French are the mechanics
The Italians make everything run on time
And the Germans are the police

Re: Cordite in my 303 British

14
To expand a bit- Don't deprime/re-size. Just pull the cordite and use a stock recipe for 174gr bullets. I've got 1k or so cases sitting around I bought that are primed I purchased so as not to give away/lose my brass- at indoor ranges. Berdan as well.
“Do the best you can until you know better. Then when you know better, do better.”
- Maya Angelou

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Re: Cordite in my 303 British

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And if you were up for it, the cordite looks like it would be pretty easy to try in a modern boxer case with a new primer. Maybe regular rifle and one magnum. Depending on how adventurous you are.
“Do the best you can until you know better. Then when you know better, do better.”
- Maya Angelou

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Re: Cordite in my 303 British

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Interesting ideas. At this point, I don't have the dies, rifle powder or bullets. But those things are in my future.

What I have noticed is that while the click-bang rate is high, it is not 100%. More like 80%.

It would seem to me that in order to ascertain the cause with any certainty, I'd have to either transfer a good number of the Cordite charges to known reliable primed cases, or pull the Cordite from several rounds and load up those old cases with modern powder. Not sure yet if I'm quite that adventurous, but I would like to know more.
Hell is where:
The British are the chefs
The Swiss are the lovers
The French are the mechanics
The Italians make everything run on time
And the Germans are the police

Re: Cordite in my 303 British

20
I don't have those dies, either...Man, I need to get with the program.

Supposed I dropped some of that Cordite into a .45 case with a magnum primer, and topped it with a 255 grain Keith? Now, that would be adventurous.
My Henry is a pretty stout rifle......Hmmm.
Hell is where:
The British are the chefs
The Swiss are the lovers
The French are the mechanics
The Italians make everything run on time
And the Germans are the police

Re: Cordite in my 303 British

22
beaurrr wrote:I don't have those dies, either...Man, I need to get with the program.

Supposed I dropped some of that Cordite into a .45 case with a magnum primer, and topped it with a 255 grain Keith? Now, that would be adventurous.
My Henry is a pretty stout rifle......Hmmm.


You might get away with it - and you might get a KABOOM!!!
Playing with unknown burn rates is a foolish thing to do! :no:
Merle from PA


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Re: Cordite in my 303 British

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shinzen wrote::wtf: Well, it certainly would be an experiment!

I thought you had started reloading for the Garand already for some reason. Whoops. Nevermind.
No, not yet. I still have about 1300 rounds of Greek HXP, but I'd like to start reloading anyway (this is the sickness part of this hobby).
I'm waiting to find Forster dies on sale through Midway.

This seems a good time to ask you a couple of things. On your M1 loads, do you use the CCi #34 primers (the "mil-spec" hard primers)? I'm not fond of slamfires.

Have you settled on a particular powder? I've heard that IMR 4895 was the shizz but it's pretty much absent around here.

As for "re-purposing" that Cordite, I'm kinda thinking it might be fun, certainly unique, and possibly dangerous. But, here's what I'm thinking: if I could find what appears to be a middling powder charge for the 303, perhaps I could simply scale down the cordite accordingly, more or less, to correspond to a 45 Colt load. There's a lot of more-or-less here to consider since we're talking about rifle propellant vs pistola propellant.

How's that for adventurous? Hell, if I don't blow my gun up, or worse, this could make for an interesting process that would certainly give new meaning to "working up" loads.

Merle-your words do not go unheard. If I scale way down, what's the worst that can happen? A squib? But, hey, I'm just a noob.
Hell is where:
The British are the chefs
The Swiss are the lovers
The French are the mechanics
The Italians make everything run on time
And the Germans are the police

Re: Cordite in my 303 British

25
beaurrr wrote:
shinzen wrote::wtf: Well, it certainly would be an experiment!

I thought you had started reloading for the Garand already for some reason. Whoops. Nevermind.
No, not yet. I still have about 1300 rounds of Greek HXP, but I'd like to start reloading anyway (this is the sickness part of this hobby).
I'm waiting to find Forster dies on sale through Midway.

This seems a good time to ask you a couple of things. On your M1 loads, do you use the CCi #34 primers (the "mil-spec" hard primers)? I'm not fond of slamfires.

Have you settled on a particular powder? I've heard that IMR 4895 was the shizz but it's pretty much absent around here.

As for "re-purposing" that Cordite, I'm kinda thinking it might be fun, certainly unique, and possibly dangerous. But, here's what I'm thinking: if I could find what appears to be a middling powder charge for the 303, perhaps I could simply scale down the cordite accordingly, more or less, to correspond to a 45 Colt load. There's a lot of more-or-less here to consider since we're talking about rifle propellant vs pistola propellant.

How's that for adventurous? Hell, if I don't blow my gun up, or worse, this could make for an interesting process that would certainly give new meaning to "working up" loads.

Merle-your words do not go unheard. If I scale way down, what's the worst that can happen? A squib? But, hey, I'm just a noob.


It's good to seek advice when you are a noob - the ones that already know everything are the ones that loose fingers - or worse.

In some cases a too-light load is as dangerous as an overload (check for Winchester ball powder loads) - powder burn rates are a mysterious thing. A powder can be "slow" in one cartridge and "fast" in another. Things as minor as shoulder angle affect it. You really need to do some reading before jumping into this. Arbitrarily trying powders CAN BE DANGEROUS as all hell.

The problem here is that nobody really knows what to expect from cordite. Anything that contains nitroglycerine has to be treated with respect. :yikes:
Merle from PA


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