California bill "to restrict, register homemade guns" signed

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AB 857. There go your "ghost guns."
http://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-gov ... 30022.html
Weeks after splitting the difference on a sweeping package of new gun regulations, Gov. Jerry Brown has added one more bill to the pass column.

Brown on Friday announced that he had signed without comment Assembly Bill 857, requiring anyone who manufactures or assembles a homemade firearm to first apply for a unique serial number or other marking from the state Department of Justice, which must then be affixed to the weapon. The measure, by Assemblyman Jim Cooper, D-Elk Grove, would also prohibit the sale or transfer of any self-assembled firearms.

AB 857, supported by gun control and law enforcement groups, is aimed at preventing people who are prohibited from purchasing or possessing firearms in California from simply making their own at home instead. Rapid advances in three-dimensional printing technology have made it substantially easier to manufacture crude guns out of plastic or metal.
WTF is a ghost gun?

Video of Kevin de León championing a previous effort to prohibit "ghost guns."

This is the system rewarding idiocy.
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Re: California bill "to restrict, register homemade guns" si

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Is it needed. There should be a proven need for a law restricting anything.

Is it enforceable. Prohibition was really effective, the effort to ban drugs works well, and illegal immigration was of course solved by passing a law.
Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children what it was once like in the United States where men were free.
- Ronald Reagan

Re: California bill "to restrict, register homemade guns" si

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The BATF already has rules for marking home-made firearms. There's no Federal requirement to mark regular firearms that are made in a home shop (think 80% AR lowers, AK blanks, or what, shovels?) unless they're sold, or unless they later fall under NFA rules.

How is this not a registration that only tracks DIYers? :shock: Since DIY weapons can't be sold or transferred, this is more restrictive than even NFA rules...

Umm, umm, excuse me, sir - can I please have a serial number for my lower receiver?

Image

http://80percentarms.com/collections/lo ... r-receiver

Re: California bill "to restrict, register homemade guns" si

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Yeah, this one is just waiting for an enterprising advocate to start a lawsuit.

Ghost Gun? Damn, if Patrick Swayze's character only knew to use one of those it would have cut the movie run-time down to half and they could have extended the sex scenes with more wet clay action...
:thanks:
"It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of non-violence to cover impotence. There is hope for a violent man to become non-violent. There is no such hope for the impotent." -Gandhi

Re: California bill "to restrict, register homemade guns" si

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So yeah, I heard about this over the weekend , and it's got only two real purposes:

1) To allow the state to know where your guns are

2) To give a big F U to gun enthusiasts who either like to DIY, or were thinking of it, and to drive another wedge into gun culture.

Jerry Brown vetoed this same bill twice -- once as recently as a few weeks ago! -- only to change his mind this time. Why?

As stated by others, criminals don't give a hoot about the legality of their guns. Heck, 80% frames are not even on the mind of the vast majority of criminals. Gang bangers have better things to do (ie, more crime) instead of staying in front of a drill press and a jig for a few hours to mill out a trigger group on their AR15 lower. Most criminals find it's easier to obtain a completed gun through a straw purchase from someone they know (in fact, that's how most criminals get their guns in the first place). I think in the history of "gun violence", there have only been TWO examples of ghost guns used in crimes -- the murder suicide in Walnut Creek, and the Santa Monica shooter. That's it! The vast, vast majority of crime is committed with non home-made guns.

Well , as with the magazine confiscation that just got signed into law, I think there will be a great deal of non-compliance with this. Good luck on enforcement and wasting state resources.

Re: California bill "to restrict, register homemade guns" si

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pdoggeth wrote:So yeah, I heard about this over the weekend , and it's got only two real purposes:

1) To allow the state to know where your guns are

2) To give a big F U to gun enthusiasts who either like to DIY, or were thinking of it, and to drive another wedge into gun culture.

Jerry Brown vetoed this same bill twice -- once as recently as a few weeks ago! -- only to change his mind this time. Why?

As stated by others, criminals don't give a hoot about the legality of their guns. <snip>
Yes, there is a strong faction that just wants guns out of private ownership.

That said, my (limited) understanding of many laws is that they are used as enforcement "options" to help apply stiff penalties when a criminal would otherwise get off light. So, it's not always just about guns. Consider that but balance it with the slippery slope of a police state.

With 3-D printing, it is much easier for people to download a file and print a gun. Yes, it could become a real security threat. Yet, for the cost of a 3-D printer, people could just buy a much more reliable gun. As with all things, a $10k 3-D printer today will be $1k in 5 years and $250 in 10. People could manufacture all kinds of untraceable single use guns, like burner cell phones. Should cops be able to shut down an operation they suspect is doing nothing but leasing 3-D printer time for people to acquire weapons?

Just saying that this issue may not be as simple as some think.

Re: California bill "to restrict, register homemade guns" si

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What I can't understand from this bill, is it meant to stop doing an AR assembly from components even if the lower receiver was purchased through the background check process and 10 day wait?

Similarly, if someone has a lower they bought via a background check and 10 day wait and has two or more upper assemblies, is this bill meant to outlaw swapping out upper assemblies?

Lastly, if ghost guns are such a menace, why does it not go into effect for another two years?

Re: California bill "to restrict, register homemade guns" si

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wifesbane wrote:
pdoggeth wrote:So yeah, I heard about this over the weekend , and it's got only two real purposes:

1) To allow the state to know where your guns are

2) To give a big F U to gun enthusiasts who either like to DIY, or were thinking of it, and to drive another wedge into gun culture.

Jerry Brown vetoed this same bill twice -- once as recently as a few weeks ago! -- only to change his mind this time. Why?

As stated by others, criminals don't give a hoot about the legality of their guns. <snip>
Yes, there is a strong faction that just wants guns out of private ownership.

That said, my (limited) understanding of many laws is that they are used as enforcement "options" to help apply stiff penalties when a criminal would otherwise get off light. So, it's not always just about guns. Consider that but balance it with the slippery slope of a police state.

With 3-D printing, it is much easier for people to download a file and print a gun. Yes, it could become a real security threat. Yet, for the cost of a 3-D printer, people could just buy a much more reliable gun. As with all things, a $10k 3-D printer today will be $1k in 5 years and $250 in 10. People could manufacture all kinds of untraceable single use guns, like burner cell phones. Should cops be able to shut down an operation they suspect is doing nothing but leasing 3-D printer time for people to acquire weapons?

Just saying that this issue may not be as simple as some think.
The security threat of 3D printing (or self made guns period) is overblown. If the fear is that in 10 years 3D printers will cost $250.... well why wait ten years? You can buy an AR jig and a router now for $250! And it mills out an AR trigger area in far less time than an actual 3D printer takes to print a lower.

The state and gun-control advocates certainly want people to believe such a threat exists. Since it's possible right now to get an inexpensive jig, we should be seeing such an explosion of crimes being committed with 80% firearms. We aren't, which is why I say the threat is overblown, and why the arguments for such a threat are disingenuous.

My state, California, has been pretty proactive at etching away gun rights. In fact, they've done the exact thing you've mentioned -- they've clamped down on the leasing of gun creation tools. Before, there were such things as "build parties", where several gun hobbyists would go to a person's house or workshop that had a drill press or mill, and each person would take turns on the tool. Build parties are all but extinct now. Has the state shown that build parties have been populated with criminals, or that build parties have produced a plethora of crime guns? Nope, no evidence ever existed for that.

Re: California bill "to restrict, register homemade guns" si

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Hank wrote:What I can't understand from this bill, is it meant to stop doing an AR assembly from components even if the lower receiver was purchased through the background check process and 10 day wait?
I doubt it, since that lower would contain a SN and thus not be part of a "ghost gun."
Hank wrote: Similarly, if someone has a lower they bought via a background check and 10 day wait and has two or more upper assemblies, is this bill meant to outlaw swapping out upper assemblies?
Seems unlikely.

The point of the law supposedly is to prevent people from owning firearms without the state's knowledge and permission.
Hank wrote:Lastly, if ghost guns are such a menace, why does it not go into effect for another two years?
And are legislators exempt?
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