Re: .380 ammo

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PiratePenguin wrote:
Day trip! Amish fudge and guns. Unfortunately, I'm on the wrong side of the state to give you any range recommendations.
My bestie lives in York -- s'posed to hit up the range with her sometime, but she is currently hospitalized (surgery gone REAL wrong). Be months - if ever - she and I get to the range.

And y'all know you can't pass thru Chester or Lancaster county without some shoo fly pie and fudge. It's just plain ole un'murican to do that.


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First of all, let's call it what it really is...It's not a gun buy-back, because the government never owned them. It's a gun turn in.

Re: .380 ammo

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Antiquus wrote:I carry .380 in an auto sometimes and tried out several of the 'standard' ammo but wasn't too impressed with any of them. Buffalo Bore, which I have shot and carried in .38spl turned out to be exactly as advertised when I checked velocity, few of the stand brands get to their billed speeds, and speed is energy when you are talking bullets and I'd expect BB to be pretty much as advertised.

One slightly off brand ammo is Tula, which is Russian ammo. Russian ammo for many calibers uses what they call a bimetal jacket, which is really just a copper plated mild steel jacket over a regular lead core. What surprised me when I chronographed the speed of this stuff is it's about 100fps faster than standard ammo. Out of a 3.5" Bersa you could expect 1030fps or about 215ft/lbs of energy compared to about 180ft/lbs for most 'standard' ammo. Because of the steel jacket, it penetrates better than copper jacket rounds as well, do for this reason it use it for carry ammo. It's cheap also.

Buffalo Bore is about 1150fps/280ft/lbs which is considerably more powerful, but also recoils more as well.

As with any carry ammo especially in semi-automatic pistols shoot several magazines full through the gun of the type of ammo you want to use to make sure it feeds reliably. With Buffalo Bore that will be a little pricey, and with Tula you have to do it at an outdoor range because indoor ranges use bullet trapping systems that those steel jacketed bullets tear up.

Personally I have reservations about using steel cased ammo in a gun that was not designed for it - I simply won't do it out of concern for the extractor. Your gun, your choice.
Merle from PA


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Re: .380 ammo

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Merle wrote:
christianne wrote:I've driven to Pennsylvania for some shoo fly pie and homemade Amish fudge.


I used to live outside of Lancaster, PA. I sure miss Yoder's Amish Buffet!!! :cry:
There's a Yoder's outside Champaign/Urbana IL. Good stuff!
In a bacon, egg and cheese sandwich the chicken and cow are involved while the pig is committed.

Re: .380 ammo

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Merle wrote:
christianne wrote:I've driven to Pennsylvania for some shoo fly pie and homemade Amish fudge.


I used to live outside of Lancaster, PA. I sure miss Yoder's Amish Buffet!!! :cry:
I love that crazy tourist trap "The Outhouse" on Route 30, some of the craziest tourist stuff, but their fudge - aww Lawdy bee - done died and gone to heaven, I have. Next door, got Dutch Haven, gets a slice of that fresh shoo fly pie with the home made real whipped cream -- and round out your visit to Zeke's BBQ...heaven right there in one parking lot. LAWDY BEE!

But -- don't never ever ever go to a Chinese buffet in Amish Country.......oh dear, that was some scary eats there my friends...scary eats...


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First of all, let's call it what it really is...It's not a gun buy-back, because the government never owned them. It's a gun turn in.

Re: .380 ammo

31
christianne wrote:
Merle wrote:
christianne wrote:I've driven to Pennsylvania for some shoo fly pie and homemade Amish fudge.


I used to live outside of Lancaster, PA. I sure miss Yoder's Amish Buffet!!! :cry:
I love that crazy tourist trap "The Outhouse" on Route 30, some of the craziest tourist stuff, but their fudge - aww Lawdy bee - done died and gone to heaven, I have. Next door, got Dutch Haven, gets a slice of that fresh shoo fly pie with the home made real whipped cream -- and round out your visit to Zeke's BBQ...heaven right there in one parking lot. LAWDY BEE!

But -- don't never ever ever go to a Chinese buffet in Amish Country.......oh dear, that was some scary eats there my friends...scary eats...


It's probably a good thing you didn't look into the dumpster to see what skins were in there. I only did that once.... :sick:


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Merle from PA


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Re: .380 ammo

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Merle wrote: Personally I have reservations about using steel cased ammo in a gun that was not designed for it - I simply won't do it out of concern for the extractor. Your gun, your choice.
Designed? Please explain how a design might differ for a steel case?

The effect of mild steel cases is negligible to positive. First is they conform well enough to to create an adequate chamber seal, a job all cases should perform. Steel cased ammo from Tula and Barnaul is either brass plated, polymer coated or lacquered to make sure they eject, remember they make military ammo and reliability is important. Since the tensile strength is high, they are less likely to conform to the chamber as brass would and be difficult to extract. Brass thickness and therefore strength is calibrated against the pressure the round will produce and unless the round is overpressure by quite a bit the correct design both seals and ejects. Then same must be done with steel, they but they have 70 years of experience making steel cases so they probably have a simple set of rules to translate dimensions. Also they've been making 9mm Mak since WWII, which is very similar in pressure. Grossly overpressure steel cases might be more difficult to extract but 7.62 and 5.45 rifle ammo have no issues at much higher pressures. Since steel is lighter than brass, then the extractor forces would be less in two ways than brass, lighter case and lesser extraction force.

The LCP has no issues with it.
When only cops have guns, it's called a police state.
I carry due to toxic masculinity.......just other people's.

Re: .380 ammo

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Dude. You should not be shooting that stuff through a revolver. It's just not respectable. Sell it off and buy components- 9mm is easy to reload for. (Dear cthulhu, let me know if you need brass or want some powder)
“Do the best you can until you know better. Then when you know better, do better.”
- Maya Angelou

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Re: .380 ammo

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I bought 50 rounds just to see how it would group. It was ok. I'll be giving away the 40 rounds I have left.

I have more 9mm than I know what to do with. Probably won't reload for it anytime soon. It's a belly gun afterall.

When the kids go back to school, I'm putting it on the workbench to work on the light strike issues.
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"Person, woman, man, camera, TV."

Re: .380 ammo

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Light strike issues? Even with non-Tula ammo? Remember Tula primers are notoriously harder than regular primers. Just saying. I have to admit, since starting to reload I haven't put more than 10 rounds downrange that weren't assembled by me. And I was disappointed when I did.
“Do the best you can until you know better. Then when you know better, do better.”
- Maya Angelou

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Re: .380 ammo

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Antiquus wrote:
Merle wrote: Personally I have reservations about using steel cased ammo in a gun that was not designed for it - I simply won't do it out of concern for the extractor. Your gun, your choice.
Designed? Please explain how a design might differ for a steel case?

The effect of mild steel cases is negligible to positive. First is they conform well enough to to create an adequate chamber seal, a job all cases should perform. Steel cased ammo from Tula and Barnaul is either brass plated, polymer coated or lacquered to make sure they eject, remember they make military ammo and reliability is important. Since the tensile strength is high, they are less likely to conform to the chamber as brass would and be difficult to extract. Brass thickness and therefore strength is calibrated against the pressure the round will produce and unless the round is overpressure by quite a bit the correct design both seals and ejects. Then same must be done with steel, they but they have 70 years of experience making steel cases so they probably have a simple set of rules to translate dimensions. Also they've been making 9mm Mak since WWII, which is very similar in pressure. Grossly overpressure steel cases might be more difficult to extract but 7.62 and 5.45 rifle ammo have no issues at much higher pressures. Since steel is lighter than brass, then the extractor forces would be less in two ways than brass, lighter case and lesser extraction force.

The LCP has no issues with it.
Steel cases don't bother me a bit. Those aluminum Blazer cases always make me a little anxious, but that's another thing entirely.

Somewhere I have a plastic .556 case that's only brass at the last quarter inch on the head end. It's like a teeny tiny bottlenecked shotshell.

Re: .380 ammo

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Light strikes with 5 different types of ammo. It seems to be a problem endemic in Taurus models based on the 85. The return spring on the firing pin seems to be too robust. Clip a couple of turns off and GTG (I hope).

You cannot shoot aluminum cased ammo in any gun where the bolt is moving back while the case is still expanding.

This is a big no-no with the Sub 2000, as the bolt starts moving back on firing. If you use an aluminum case, the case will continue to expand as it's exiting the chamber and bad things happen.

With a closed bolt system, I haven't heard of any problems with aluminum.
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Re: .380 ammo

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Antiquus wrote:
Merle wrote: Personally I have reservations about using steel cased ammo in a gun that was not designed for it - I simply won't do it out of concern for the extractor. Your gun, your choice.
Designed? Please explain how a design might differ for a steel case?

The effect of mild steel cases is negligible to positive. First is they conform well enough to to create an adequate chamber seal, a job all cases should perform. Steel cased ammo from Tula and Barnaul is either brass plated, polymer coated or lacquered to make sure they eject, remember they make military ammo and reliability is important. Since the tensile strength is high, they are less likely to conform to the chamber as brass would and be difficult to extract. Brass thickness and therefore strength is calibrated against the pressure the round will produce and unless the round is overpressure by quite a bit the correct design both seals and ejects. Then same must be done with steel, they but they have 70 years of experience making steel cases so they probably have a simple set of rules to translate dimensions. Also they've been making 9mm Mak since WWII, which is very similar in pressure. Grossly overpressure steel cases might be more difficult to extract but 7.62 and 5.45 rifle ammo have no issues at much higher pressures. Since steel is lighter than brass, then the extractor forces would be less in two ways than brass, lighter case and lesser extraction force.

The LCP has no issues with it.

The extractor and/or extractor spring is a little beefier. The major problem (as I see it) is that steel "relaxes"a bit slower and a bit less than steel. Thus the need for a little more extractor.

Some guns don't seem to care about steel, but I have seen several AR's that DID have a problem. Thus my decision not to use steel cased.

Of course this only applies to auto loaders - no problem at all with bolt guns.
Merle from PA


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Re: .380 ammo

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I'd also point out that a necked high energy rifle cartridge is a hugely different set of factors than a straight walled pistol cartridge at 30% of the rifle's pressure.
When only cops have guns, it's called a police state.
I carry due to toxic masculinity.......just other people's.

Re: .380 ammo

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Have I mentioned recently that you people have given me more information - knowledge - guidance than I could possibly hope for? There are a few times when I don't totally understand what you are saying, but you all go out of your way to explain a great deal of it. And what I don't understand, and isn't explained, google is my friend.

Thank you all so much.
First of all, let's call it what it really is...It's not a gun buy-back, because the government never owned them. It's a gun turn in.

Re: .380 ammo

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christianne wrote:Have I mentioned recently that you people have given me more information - knowledge - guidance than I could possibly hope for? There are a few times when I don't totally understand what you are saying, but you all go out of your way to explain a great deal of it. And what I don't understand, and isn't explained, google is my friend.

Thank you all so much.

Well, I would like to say that if something isn't clear - then ask "what does that mean". It's far too easy to "assume" that everyone else knows what you know.
Merle from PA


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Re: .380 ammo

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Merle wrote:
Awake wrote:The only thing that I hold against Bersa, and makes me suggest that you should look elsewhere, is its online forum; some of the worse people in gun forums in the entire internet. It's a group that nobody should aspire to belong to... it makes me feel dirty just to carry a Bersa.
What forum is that? Everyplace I have visited was pretty positive, so I'd like to see what you are talking about.
I'm gonna guess Bersachat.com. I lasted about a week there.

Back to the gun in question, my Bersa Thunder is a nice little gun, and it won me a postal match. But I also find that it's recoil has a surprising amount of sting... maybe due to the fixed barrel? My Kahr CW-9 is almost identical in overall dimensions (even fits the same holster) and grip size/shape, carries the same number of rounds, but in 9 mm, and is more comfortable to shoot.

Re: .380 ammo

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MtnMan wrote:
Merle wrote:
Awake wrote:The only thing that I hold against Bersa, and makes me suggest that you should look elsewhere, is its online forum; some of the worse people in gun forums in the entire internet. It's a group that nobody should aspire to belong to... it makes me feel dirty just to carry a Bersa.
What forum is that? Everyplace I have visited was pretty positive, so I'd like to see what you are talking about.
I'm gonna guess Bersachat.com. I lasted about a week there.

Back to the gun in question, my Bersa Thunder is a nice little gun, and it won me a postal match. But I also find that it's recoil has a surprising amount of sting... maybe due to the fixed barrel? My Kahr CW-9 is almost identical in overall dimensions (even fits the same holster) and grip size/shape, carries the same number of rounds, but in 9 mm, and is more comfortable to shoot.

OK, thanks for the feedback.

I have noticed that my 9mm Mak CZ-82 kicks more than I think it should. Seems to be a feature of blowback guns.
Merle from PA


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Re: .380 ammo

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I think it's both the barrel pressed into the frame and the simple recoil mechanism of the spring catching all the recoil that aggravates muzzle flip on blowbacks. I've had some success reducing it with stronger recoil springs.
When only cops have guns, it's called a police state.
I carry due to toxic masculinity.......just other people's.

Re: .380 ammo

50
I call my .380s my car-jackers. Have a Taurus (hate it) and Sig (love it) in .380. Both of them are on a restrictive diet of Hornady Critical Defense. For the purpose they are used for, they are ideal; extreme close range. Just enough to buy me time to hit the throttle when they stumble backwards. Keep it tucked between the driver seat and the center console, right next to the seatbelt release (holstered, of course).

White box of Winchesters for the range seems to be in plenty of supply at the Walmarts out here. Not that I shoot either of them at the range that often. I don't like itty bitty guns where I can only get two of my meaty fingers on the grip.

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