Re: Lead Free Ammo

4
Problem with the CCI Copper-22 is it costs around 22 cents per round. That's a bit more expensive than 9mm Luger.
Last edited by sikacz on Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: Lead Free Ammo

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Jacketed 9mm you buy will have the lead fully encapsulated by the jacket on loaded rounds. The copper plated/washed .22 (copper colored or "golden" bullets) also make lead exposure from loaded ammunition a minimal risk.

At the range, lead exposure risk is at least as likely from the lead in primer compounds as from lead projectiles. Also, at the range, you're exposed to everyone else's ammo more or as much as your own.

Concern about lead exposure as a shooter should be taken seriously, especially if you've got little ones at home. Most thorough approach is as follows: Before getting back in your car, but after packing up your stuff, wash your hands with lead removal soap or lead removal hand wipes. When you get home, taking off the shoes you wear to the range is the biggest thing you can do to reduce the risk of bringing lead contaminants home. Once inside, put your clothes straight in to the laundry and get in the shower. Wash your hair (this is the second biggest thing you can do). That said, I only do the hand wipes/washing part and my (checked not assumed) lead levels are fine.
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Re: Lead Free Ammo

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Marlene wrote: At the range, lead exposure risk is at least as likely from the lead in primer compounds as from lead projectiles. Also, at the range, you're exposed to everyone else's ammo more or as much as your own.
This^

If you can smell powder at the range, you are getting a little lead. Some ranges are WAY worse than others. The best indoor range around here has such good ventilation that the smell is all but completely carried forward down the bay. One I went to a couple of times had visible smoke accumulation--ventilation seemed almost non-existent!

I get my lead checked 2 or 3 times a year. Only had a level as high as 10 micrograms/deciliter once, after a time when I was not going to the range much but was shooting airguns in my garage a lot. I concluded that my airguns puff up a bit more lead powder than you would guess!
IMR4227: Zero to 900 in 0.001 seconds

I'm only killing paper and my self-esteem.

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Re: Lead Free Ammo

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I also do pretty much only hand washing, and have barely elevated lead levels. After the airgun period mentioned above, I happened to shoot more at the range (still not much by most people's standards, barely over once a month on average) and less airgun and my lead went down to five or six.

I also consider my range bags to be a potential source of badness. I assume they pick up plenty of lead dust on the outside. I keep them in the garage or in two spots in the basement where there is little chance of anyone running their hands over the floor there, and I try to remember to wash my hands after handling them. In the car, I typically put them on the floor or in the trunk on some scrap paper, not on the seats.
IMR4227: Zero to 900 in 0.001 seconds

I'm only killing paper and my self-esteem.

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Re: Lead Free Ammo

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Reading up on the issue of lead, exposure can be cumulative. A blood test can reveal a recent exposure but even a low test does not mean you're safe. It may be building up in your bones and teeth and wherever else it hides. I've seen a fair number of wacky, non liberal gun enthusiasts on Youtube to think that they might be suffering from some old Roman Saturnism.

If it were just me, I'd live with the lead risk but I've got kids and I hate the idea of tracking it back into the house or turning the car into the leadmobile. So I'll be looking into ways to mitigate the danger like and beyond those suggested.

BTW Winchester has a lead free varmint http://www.winchester.com/products/rimf ... fault.aspx

They have a Super Clean brand for other calibers. http://www.winchester.com/products/han ... ault.aspx

Re: Lead Free Ammo

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Marlene nailed what you need to do in order to minimize what you bring home- primers are a bigger concern for lead exposure by far than lead bullets. Lead in the air from you and other shooters gets onto your hair, clothes, and hands- lead removal wipes are great for the hands, a shower once you get home is huge. I do the former as well, but not religious about the latter- but no little monsters other than furry ones running around the house.
“Do the best you can until you know better. Then when you know better, do better.”
- Maya Angelou

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Re: Lead Free Ammo

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shinzen wrote:Marlene nailed what you need to do in order to minimize what you bring home- primers are a bigger concern for lead exposure by far than lead bullets. Lead in the air from you and other shooters gets onto your hair, clothes, and hands- lead removal wipes are great for the hands, a shower once you get home is huge. I do the former as well, but not religious about the latter- but no little monsters other than furry ones running around the house.
Good reason to buy a shootin' jacket and hat.
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Re: Lead Free Ammo

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Buck13 wrote:
Marlene wrote: At the range, lead exposure risk is at least as likely from the lead in primer compounds as from lead projectiles. Also, at the range, you're exposed to everyone else's ammo more or as much as your own.
This^

If you can smell powder at the range, you are getting a little lead. Some ranges are WAY worse than others. The best indoor range around here has such good ventilation that the smell is all but completely carried forward down the bay. One I went to a couple of times had visible smoke accumulation--ventilation seemed almost non-existent!

I get my lead checked 2 or 3 times a year. Only had a level as high as 10 micrograms/deciliter once, after a time when I was not going to the range much but was shooting airguns in my garage a lot. I concluded that my airguns puff up a bit more lead powder than you would guess!
For your airguns, consider a electrical duct sealer trap. Pellets don't deform, chip or fragment like the steel traps.
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"Person, woman, man, camera, TV."

Re: Lead Free Ammo

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senorgrand wrote:
For your airguns, consider a electrical duct sealer trap. Pellets don't deform, chip or fragment like the steel traps.
That helps, but you still get lead dust coming out the end of the barrel wherever you're shooting the airguns. I recently picked up some solid copper pellets and they seem to reasonable for accuracy, but are definitely a bit more expensive. (Relative to lead anyway. They're still WAY cheaper than regular ammo obviously)
“Do the best you can until you know better. Then when you know better, do better.”
- Maya Angelou

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Re: Lead Free Ammo

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Reloading gives you many more options although reloading .22 Rimfire isn't practical. Most of the large internet resellers and urban sporting goods stores have lead free ammo. The Arizona Game and Fish Department even gives hunters who draw permits in units bordering the Grand Canyon coupons to purchase lead free ammo to protect the California Condor and Bald Eagle populations along the Colorado River.

Re: Lead Free Ammo

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I've had a fair amount of experience handling lead. At one point, my level was 34 mcg/ dL, and it went steadily down once to less than 10 once I changed my lead handling practices. If you're concerned about lead, have your blood tested. If elevated, have it tested again until it's "normal" (under 10mcg/dL). Testing is the only way to know if there's a problem.
Hell is where:
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The Swiss are the lovers
The French are the mechanics
The Italians make everything run on time
And the Germans are the police

Re: Lead Free Ammo

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I'd love to see ranges look a little more like gyms, as far as having locker rooms where you could, for example, take a shower, lock up your coat(s), etc. I dread wadding up my jacket and dropping it on the floor. And I'm not too fond of dragging my dirty range bag back home. I wish someone had pointed out to me from Day One the existence of products like D-Lead and D-Wipes, which I'm now ordering online. (Why don't ranges sell this?) I always wash up after but I don't know what kind of soap is in the dispenser. I don't use conditioner before I know I'll be shooting, though! And I usually (but not always) wear a cap.

Which lives inside my lead-collecting range bag.

Which is about to get massively decontaminated as soon as the D-Lead gets here.

Do you have to clean out your washing machine?...

Also, I'm going to set up everything inside a hard case. Much easier to clean (if you keep the lid locked), I assume.
I’m NOT the NRA

Re: Lead Free Ammo

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HotheadPaisan wrote: Sat Mar 17, 2018 12:18 am I'd love to see ranges look a little more like gyms, as far as having locker rooms where you could, for example, take a shower, lock up your coat(s), etc. I dread wadding up my jacket and dropping it on the floor. And I'm not too fond of dragging my dirty range bag back home. I wish someone had pointed out to me from Day One the existence of products like D-Lead and D-Wipes, which I'm now ordering online. (Why don't ranges sell this?) I always wash up after but I don't know what kind of soap is in the dispenser. I don't use conditioner before I know I'll be shooting, though! And I usually (but not always) wear a cap.

Which lives inside my lead-collecting range bag.

Which is about to get massively decontaminated as soon as the D-Lead gets here.

Do you have to clean out your washing machine?...

Also, I'm going to set up everything inside a hard case. Much easier to clean (if you keep the lid locked), I assume.
EDIT: I need to preface this with NEVER use acids to clean lead up at home, including vinegar. It makes the problem a lot more dangerous.

washing machine cleans itself normally. If you have concerns, run some washing machine cleaner (no acids) through it on an empty cycle to break up any deposits.

Washing machine friendly soft cases would be easier unless you're willing to do the lead removal in the kitchen sink/bathtub. You don't want to get lead in the soil by washing things outside.

Vacuuming isn't recommended unless you have a special vacuum with a HEPA filter and avoid brushing.

Lead is not something that needs special soap for cleaning up (EDIT) but it helps. It's toxic but can be cleaned up using most normal detergents (EDIT: you may still want better around small children) and can be disposed of via proper sewage drains and standard trash pickup (EDIT) just wrap it up to keep animals/people out of it). Fine lead dusts are more dangerous than residue, which is where i would worry more about breathing too much in at the range if the ventilation is poor. With the combination of lead, oil, and other crud in the air I would suggest using a respirator/mask if you plan to spend a lot of time on the range or using a poorly ventilated one.(EDIT) While most masks protect against dry powder, I would go for a P95 or better respirator (P is rated against oils and vapors) to protect for when people run their guns wet, or when the humidity gets particularly bad (Note: masks rated higher than P95 are more bulky and can get in the way when shooting so it is probably easiest to avoid ranges with poor ventilation). As always, washing after shooting is essential.

As far as lead free ammo goes, I don't know much other than there are some state mandates in places for lead free shot because of birds eating it. Most metals will cost a lot more than lead, as lead has lost almost all practical applications due to its toxicity and is dirt cheap. I would worry about lead free ammo for hunting trips where you plan on eating what you shoot. There are reduced lead options that will limit your exposure further that are a little more expensive, but fully lead free ammo looks to cost at least double for common duty/hunting cartridges if not more.

EDIT: Special thanks to Marlene for helping me clear this up.
Last edited by BillMcD on Sat Apr 07, 2018 8:49 am, edited 5 times in total.

Re: Lead Free Ammo

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Marlene wrote: Tue Apr 03, 2018 9:43 pm Metallic lead is not chemically inert. I wish people would stop repeating that particular piece of gun internet legend/bullshit.

-the lady who works in a lab
yeah, I don't know how to word it. Sorry. There is a very small list of things that are truly inert, and those are the gases on the far right of the periodic table. I don't know what you call something that seems relatively stable in the sense that it doesn't immediately react with most chemicals, especially household cleaners (unless i have that wrong as well and you do need specific cleaning solutions for lead at which point ill go delete my prior post to prevent misinformation spread).

Re: Lead Free Ammo

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Regular soap does a pretty good job, but the lead removal soaps are definitely more effective.

Mild acids readily solubilize lead. That’s what has happened in the Flynt water system. Human sweat is often mildly acidic.

My usual range now has lead removal wipes available, which is something I’d like to see more places.
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