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 Post subject: AK47 vs SKS
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:09 am 
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Location: tallahassee, FL
I originally bought my AK47 WASR 10 63 to have a relatively inexpensive "assault weapon" for kicks. I know i is not an AW but it looks the part and it can be shot rather quckly adding to the illusiion. And of course I bought a 1943 Izvezst?) M91 30 to experience what those on here. have described. The plan was to just have some fun guns, not collectors, just shooters. But then I got my M91 Tula Imperial Ordinance, with so much character anit it has been so many places(I still take it apart every few days to look at all the marks) that these other sanitary rifles don't do diddly for me. So will keep the 91 30 to shoot, the M91 to admire, my Nagant to giggle over and sell the AK the AK always felt like a kit gun. Would an SKS lend a bit more of the military feel in my meager collection along with getting an M44?

Thanks

paul

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 Post subject: Re: AK47 vs SKS
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 4:07 am 
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No. You stay away from Ruskie SKS's.

That solid piece of metal receiver whose bolt goes rack-cling! instead of shak-clak! like the stamped Ak's.

That longer barrel and sight radius.

That deceptively efficient 10 round mag.

That chrome lined barrel.

That old-World feel to it.

That shiny blueing (if you look hard or patiently enough).

Those sweet bayonets!!!

Its fabulous balance.

Mellow recoil.

And the gloriously intoxicating smell of those Soviet chemical fumes on its wood stock!!!!

No. You stay away from those babies as they are all MINE MINE MINE!!!!

Xela

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 Post subject: Re: AK47 vs SKS
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 9:45 am 
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Since Xela has laid claim to all the Russian SKS's, Yugo and Norinco SKS's are all great choices. They're less expensive than the Russians with the same reliability and feel.

dbluefish wrote:
IAnd of course I bought a 1943 Izvezst?)


It's spelled Izhevsk. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: AK47 vs SKS
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 9:47 am 
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SKS. Even though the stock is still a bit too short for Western shoulders, it isn't as bad as it is on AKs.
Since it is more like a traditional rifle it is a more vesatile weapon than the AK for civilian applications like hunting or plinking.
If you get a Yugo version you can launch grenades at deer who have taken cover in dead spaces.

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 Post subject: Re: AK47 vs SKS
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 9:52 am 
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I love my Ruskie SKS- fun little rifle, cheap ammo to plink with, and it's been around a whole bunch of blocks since 1954!

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 Post subject: Re: AK47 vs SKS
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:04 am 
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It's on my "after the C&R paperwork shows up" list.

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 Post subject: Re: AK47 vs SKS
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:54 pm 
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The one I was eyeing up went away in the aftermath of an insurance bill. But I really want an SKS for my next rifle. I have zero interest in AKs & ARs but the SKS tickles my fancy. Hopefully I can find a non-Yugo as I really don't want the GL crap on the end of it.

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Last edited by wlewisiii on Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: AK47 vs SKS
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:24 pm 
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I really, really like my sks.


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 Post subject: Re: AK47 vs SKS
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 3:45 pm 
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I have had maybe 5 AK's and 8 SKS's over the years. The AK's we buy legally here are toys. The SKS's were real issue military/police rifles that were used in combat in the former Yugoslavia...I have no doubt that some are being used in combat or at least in someone's military right now. I have an old machined Chinese SKS that has mixed numbers and no ID at all other than the importer stamp.

It shoots better than any other SKS I have owned, including Russians and Yugos. It has a really good trigger-for an SKS-and I keep it loaded in a closet, along with about 80 rounds of hollowpoints on stripper clips...for the right wing revolution.

I really should take it out and shoot it soon...I have a few more that need a field trip, too.

FWIW, I think the SKS is slightly more accurate and I prefer it as a medium distance weapon over the AK...it is more comfortable for me to shoot, and you can get down on the ground with it, not like the long mag AK.

I'd like to get a nice Yugo again some time when my money isn't so tight...I like the gas selector valve for single shot...it's very accurate in that mode, even if you have to work the bolt a lot...

mark

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 Post subject: Re: AK47 vs SKS
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 3:13 am 
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I like mine. It's a '53 Bulgarian. The thing about an SKS is they feel very Garrand like to me, very solid, without that 30-06 recoil. Maybe the M-1 carbine would be a better comparison. Definitely a military weapon for that era.

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 Post subject: Re: AK47 vs SKS
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:47 am 
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Despite Hollywood's description of the Vietnam War ( or The American War if you are Vietnamese ) as an AK war most of the NVA were armed with Russian and Chinese SKSs during the first couple of years of the conflict. When Kalashnikovs began to arrive in quantity the SKSs were handed off to the VC, who had been equipped largely with captured, obselete, and smuggled weapons until 1968.
It has been a thoroughly battle- tested rifle. I even glimpsed the familiar outline of a SKS in the hands of a Shi'ite militia fighter during news footage from al Sadr's uprising in 2004.

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 Post subject: Re: AK47 vs SKS
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:58 am 
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FWIW, the SKS was scaled down from a Soviet large caliber anti-tank rifle that used the Siminov magazine and dropping bolt. It is so far overbuilt it will last forever, and will function when soaked in mud for months. The 7.62 round it uses performs very similar to the .30-30 Winchester, which some military types find barely adequate...but personally, I think that any round that has been killing medium size game for well over a century and is still doing that is a pretty good cartridge.

It is certainly easy to shoot, has acceptable military accuracy our to maybe 200 yards, and with a little practice is very fast to reload. It is rugged, reliable, simple and...OK, really neat to shoot...and cheap, too.

They are still relatively cheap to buy and there are millions around and lots of variations of them to collect...but I really like them best as shooters.

Here is a lot of very good info on the Siminov Carbine...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SKS


mark

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 Post subject: Re: AK47 vs SKS
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:40 am 
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M4Builder wrote:
dbluefish wrote:
IAnd of course I bought a 1943 Izvezst?)
It's spelled Izhevsk. ;)

Well. Actually it's spelled Ижевск. :P

My first centerfire rifle (obtained at age 14) was a 1977 NORINCO Type 56 with stamped trigger housing and pinned barrel. It was a grade 3* so it wasn't terribly accurate, but it was a hell of a lot of fun. Sadly I don't have it anymore. :cry:

I'm not a fan of the Yugo since the GL front end is kind of silly and it doesn't have a chrome-lined barrel. In theory, using a non-chromed barrel and shutting off the gas system ought to make it exceptionally accurate when used with handloads, but the long-range ballistic performance of the x39 is so terrible that I don't think it's really worth it. The Albanian ones are pretty cool looking with the forend and handguard going all the way out to the gas block, but I have no idea how their quality is compared to the Russian and Chinese models. Get a grade 1 Russian (Izhevsk or Tula) or or NORINCO rifle that hasn't been bubba'd to death and you'll be very happy.

One note about the Chinese NORINCO models, they were only made for military service up until... 1988? I think. Production continued after that, but only specifically for commercial export to the US. The military versions are marked with a one or two digit date code followed by a six digit serial number, with date code number 1 starting in 1957 (mine was marked 21xxxxxx.) I'm fairly certain that rifles made for civilian export do not have this date code present. The reason I bring this up is that there's some question as to whether or not the production quality took a dive after they were no longer being manufactured for the military, though I don't know how true it is; no one I've talked to who owned a civilian Type 56 had any complaints about it. Also, if it has a 16" barrel or takes AK magazines, you can be sure it was made for civilian consumption; those model were never issued to the Chinese military.

*On grades: On all Russian and Chinese SKS rifles, or at least all the ones I've handled, there's a number 1, 2, or 3 marked somewhere on the front sight base. Mine had a 3 marked on the front. This indicates how tightly it grouped in post-production test firing; 1 is great, 2 is okay, 3 is poor. Exactly how good or bad they are I can't tell you, since I have no idea what the group size standards were. My grade 3 rifle was good enough for COM at 100 yards though.

What dogngun says about it originally being an anti-tank rifle design is true. The 14.5x114mm PTRS-41 is a monster.

(Kind of like me.)

--Katemonster

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 Post subject: Re: AK47 vs SKS
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:29 am 
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CaspianSeaMonster wrote:
... It was a grade 3* so it wasn't terribly accurate, but it was a hell of a lot of fun. ...
*On grades: On all Russian and Chinese SKS rifles, or at least all the ones I've handled, there's a number 1, 2, or 3 marked somewhere on the front sight base. Mine had a 3 marked on the front. This indicates how tightly it grouped in post-production test firing; 1 is great, 2 is okay, 3 is poor. Exactly how good or bad they are I can't tell you, since I have no idea what the group size standards were. My grade 3 rifle was good enough for COM at 100 yards though.
...
--Katemonster


Hiya Kate,

It's my understanding that the numbers don't have anything to do with accuracy. More likely, they are part assembly codes.

Some discussions have taken place about this over the years over at Survivor's SKS boards:
http://www.sksboards.com/smf/index.php?topic=45734.0
http://www.sksboards.com/smf/index.php?topic=40085.0

Would love to hear if you have first hand documentation/sources of your findings.

Not aiming to shoot you down (what horrible pun), just honestly curious about your sources.

Xela

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 Post subject: Re: AK47 vs SKS
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:46 am 
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Comparing the SKS, which had a relatively short production run and minimal changes over its life span to the 'Ak47' is kinda setting up a skewed result. There is a world of difference between the short-lived AK47, the prolific AKM, the Chicom 56 and the AK100 series in 7.62 for example.

I'm not a great fan of the SKS after seeing some poor examples in the field, though I can understand why they are respected by many shooters.

I'm just not really a fan of the 7.62x39 round (I like the easy accuracy of the flatter trajectory in the 5.45), but if I had to get something in that caliber for fun it would be an AKM (the classic Cold War rifle) or for something more practical it would be an AK104.

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 Post subject: Re: AK47 vs SKS
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:57 am 
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Xela: To my knowledge and extreme frustration, the website I took that from no longer exists. It was a large website dedicated to the SKS in a similar vein to Makarov.com and, unless my memory is completely screwing with me, it was called Simonov.com or Simonov.net or something like that. The major defining characteristic of the site was a massive croudsourced project for NORINCO markings (as in, what's your date code, serial number, and factory code mark?) It's been years since I've been able to find that site.

Anyway, running with the assumption that the markings on the front sight tower are accuracy grade codes, there has always been some doubt in my mind as to how accurate they are... er, how accurately they describe the rifle's actual accuracy. I can't help but think the testing procedure would be relatively sloppy...

I'll check out those links you posted later today once my brain has come up to running temperature; I'm not even out of bed yet (wooo the miracle of modern microelectronics!)

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 Post subject: Re: AK47 vs SKS
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:57 pm 
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Doc wrote:
Comparing the SKS, which had a relatively short production run and minimal changes over its life span to the 'Ak47' is kinda setting up a skewed result. There is a world of difference between the short-lived AK47, the prolific AKM, the Chicom 56 and the AK100 series in 7.62 for example.

I'm not a great fan of the SKS after seeing some poor examples in the field, though I can understand why they are respected by many shooters.

I'm just not really a fan of the 7.62x39 round (I like the easy accuracy of the flatter trajectory in the 5.45), but if I had to get something in that caliber for fun it would be an AKM (the classic Cold War rifle) or for something more practical it would be an AK104.


I propose Simonov tested quite a bit. Arguably, the SKS is the result of his previous work, like the AVS 36, but especially the PTRS.

Furthermore, the SKS as we know it today also went through several variations, if hardly discernible to the untrained eye.

Having said that, I'm not saying the SKS is "better". :)

Xela

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 Post subject: Re: AK47 vs SKS
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:17 pm 
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Point taken, though they are all forged receivers and made within a decade of each other.

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 Post subject: Re: AK47 vs SKS
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:31 am 
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When researching for my first SKS purchase, I found this site below. It sounds like it pulled from the site Kate is talking about. Hours of reading and info. TONS of pics on the incremental details. Very helpful in trying to date non /26\ Chinese SKS .
http://www.yooperj.com/SKS.htm

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 Post subject: Re: AK47 vs SKS
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:47 am 
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That's likely. At the very bottom of that page there's a dead image link to http://www.simonov.net; that would be the website I was referring to.

Maybe check the Wayback Machine? Nope, just checked, no archive of Simonov.net. Sadface. It was an awesome website.

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 Post subject: Re: AK47 vs SKS
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 10:11 am 
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I just got my NORINCO out of the closet...SN is 26539, matching on all parts but the stock, which is also 5 digit but 3 thousand numbers higher. No manufacturer's code in a triangle at all, no other marks but the importer stamp, some place in CA...There is a small stamp on the front sight base and the same on the bolt...looks like an inverted and bent letter y.

Rear sight is the military sight with the inverted squared U, and the 300 meter battle sight setting.

I got it maybe 10 years ago for about $120 because it wasn't a "pretty" one, but the bore is great, trigger pull is great for an SKS and it is very well made...and shoots very well. It was a surprise how well.

Can't hunt with an autoloader here in PA, so it's just a plinker and my stash rifle for when the right wing violent revolution actually takes place...(still waiting)

I'm happy that there are so many SKS fans here. I think the AK is a great rifle, but the imports we get here are nothing special and not real AK's at all...and IMO, the SKS is a better rifle.


mark

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 Post subject: Re: AK47 vs SKS
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:54 pm 
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foghorn wrote:
When researching for my first SKS purchase, I found this site below. It sounds like it pulled from the site Kate is talking about. Hours of reading and info. TONS of pics on the incremental details. Very helpful in trying to date non /26\ Chinese SKS .
http://www.yooperj.com/SKS.htm


Nice find! Mine's a 1951 Tula SKS- Looks like I had one of the first years with a chrome lined barrel!

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 Post subject: Re: AK47 vs SKS
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:24 pm 
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dogngun wrote:
I just got my NORINCO out of the closet...SN is 26539, matching on all parts but the stock, which is also 5 digit but 3 thousand numbers higher. No manufacturer's code in a triangle at all, no other marks but the importer stamp, some place in CA...There is a small stamp on the front sight base and the same on the bolt...looks like an inverted and bent letter y.

Rear sight is the military sight with the inverted squared U, and the 300 meter battle sight setting.

I got it maybe 10 years ago for about $120 because it wasn't a "pretty" one, but the bore is great, trigger pull is great for an SKS and it is very well made...and shoots very well. It was a surprise how well.

Can't hunt with an autoloader here in PA, so it's just a plinker and my stash rifle for when the right wing violent revolution actually takes place...(still waiting)

I'm happy that there are so many SKS fans here. I think the AK is a great rifle, but the imports we get here are nothing special and not real AK's at all...and IMO, the SKS is a better rifle.


mark


This sounds pretty interesting, it could an early "Sino Soviet",

Xela

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 Post subject: Re: AK47 vs SKS
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:47 pm 
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dogngun wrote:
I just got my NORINCO out of the closet...SN is 26539, matching on all parts but the stock, which is also 5 digit but 3 thousand numbers higher. No manufacturer's code in a triangle at all, no other marks but the importer stamp, some place in CA...There is a small stamp on the front sight base and the same on the bolt...looks like an inverted and bent letter y.

Rear sight is the military sight with the inverted squared U, and the 300 meter battle sight setting.

I got it maybe 10 years ago for about $120 because it wasn't a "pretty" one, but the bore is great, trigger pull is great for an SKS and it is very well made...and shoots very well. It was a surprise how well.

Can't hunt with an autoloader here in PA, so it's just a plinker and my stash rifle for when the right wing violent revolution actually takes place...(still waiting)

I'm happy that there are so many SKS fans here. I think the AK is a great rifle, but the imports we get here are nothing special and not real AK's at all...and IMO, the SKS is a better rifle.


mark


Mine's pretty similar- same sight- SN is 2467, imported by CDI- I got lucky with mine as well on the bore and trigger. I've always been happy with the way it shoots, even thought I've done some non-permanent bubba'ing to it over the years. (Went with mags and the sks guys mag adapter so they don't have the goofy duckbills on them, just ordered one of the scout scope mounts for a red dot after messing with the goofy one for the back at one point that never kept it's zero) I love the AK's, but the SKS is definitely uniquely mine, and wouldn't sell it for any reason I can think of!l

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 Post subject: Re: AK47 vs SKS
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:52 pm 
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Oh- and it's a Russian Tula

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