Re: Smith M&P CA Compliant

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In CA and a few other states, a pistol grip is (inexplicably) considered one of the features that defines an illegal "assault weapon", if present on a magazine-fed semi-auto rifle.

So that grip fin is the easiest way, from the manufacturer's point of view, to circumvent that restriction and ship an AR to California. For the rifle owner, there are better alternatives once you get it in your hands (http://www.thordsencustoms.com/frs-15-r ... tock-kits/)
"To initiate a war of aggression...is the supreme international crime" - Nuremberg prosecutor Robert Jackson, 1946

Re: Smith M&P CA Compliant

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Elmo wrote:In CA and a few other states, a pistol grip is (inexplicably) considered one of the features that defines an illegal "assault weapon", if present on a magazine-fed semi-auto rifle.

So that grip fin is the easiest way, from the manufacturer's point of view, to circumvent that restriction and ship an AR to California. For the rifle owner, there are better alternatives once you get it in your hands (http://www.thordsencustoms.com/frs-15-r ... tock-kits/)
I see what they're doing, it just strikes me as borderline negligent/irresponsible. Losing control of the rifle because of that fucktarded wing and shooting something unintentionally seems like a recipe for a lawsuit, but what do I know.
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Re: Smith M&P CA Compliant

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Plenty of gun manufacturers don't want to screw around with compliant products that work within the various state restrictions.

I, for one, appreciate the ones that do, like S&W in this case.
"To initiate a war of aggression...is the supreme international crime" - Nuremberg prosecutor Robert Jackson, 1946

Re: Smith M&P CA Compliant

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321FLSurfer wrote: I see what they're doing, it just strikes me as borderline negligent/irresponsible. Losing control of the rifle because of that fucktarded wing and shooting something unintentionally seems like a recipe for a lawsuit, but what do I know.
that "fin" isn't anything new. came "into play" as the monsterman grip years ago. I have never heard of any reports of your concern happening.

Re: Smith M&P CA Compliant

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I don't know about lawsuits, but the fin definitely makes it harder to control the rifle with one hand. That's why I prefer the other option I linked to above (Thordsen).
"To initiate a war of aggression...is the supreme international crime" - Nuremberg prosecutor Robert Jackson, 1946

Re: Smith M&P CA Compliant

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if you can't hang on to a rifle without having the thumb of your trigger hand wrapped around something, you have no business touching guns. If you think an AR15 type rifle is difficult to control, you need to get someone to tech you to shoot a gun.

The grip may look weird to you, but Californians have enough bullshit to deal with that your hyperbole is just really damn annoying.
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Re: Smith M&P CA Compliant

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Marlene wrote:if you can't hang on to a rifle without having the thumb of your trigger hand wrapped around something, you have no business touching guns. If you think an AR15 type rifle is difficult to control, you need to get someone to tech you to shoot a gun.

The grip may look weird to you, but Californians have enough bullshit to deal with that your hyperbole is just really damn annoying.
Easy tiger, same team here. Just having a bit of fun with your "CA Compliant" abortion of a grip. Literally never seen one before.
Listen to the LGC podcast: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/the ... 80021?mt=2

"None of us is as smart as all of us." - K. Blanchard

Re: Smith M&P CA Compliant

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Nah, I've seen those get-aroundthe-pistol-grip designs before in L.A. and I just feel bad for the shooters there. They feel funny but when shouldered I don't imagine there's no danger of slippage really. Never shot one though. Given the option, I'd rather just have a sporterized AK and forgo the bat-wing. But that's just me... not much of an AR guy by nature.
"It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of non-violence to cover impotence. There is hope for a violent man to become non-violent. There is no such hope for the impotent." -Gandhi

Re: Smith M&P CA Compliant

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Marlene wrote:if you can't hang on to a rifle without having the thumb of your trigger hand wrapped around something, you have no business touching guns. If you think an AR15 type rifle is difficult to control, you need to get someone to tech you to shoot a gun.
my post's first draft read similar in thought ...

Re: Smith M&P CA Compliant

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308Scout wrote:
Marlene wrote:if you can't hang on to a rifle without having the thumb of your trigger hand wrapped around something, you have no business touching guns. If you think an AR15 type rifle is difficult to control, you need to get someone to tech you to shoot a gun.
my post's first draft read similar in thought ...
Ok a couple quick points on this;

1. They make AR platform rifles in big bores too, I have them in .308 and 12 gauge. I don't have any trouble controlling them with a normal pistol grip, however I have watched a novice shooter try to mag dump the 12gauge and it definitely got away from him. Not to the point of dropping the rifle or discharging in an unsafe direction, but it looked like that would have been the logical conclusion if the mag had a few more rounds in it. From that, the idea of anything compromising the grip seems to me to be a potential safety concern.

2. I have the utmost confidence in anyone reading this threads ability to control their weapon. I started this post because I had never seen this fin/batwing before, it looks absurd, and it looks like in the hands of somebody who doesn't know what their doing, that it could be a safety concern. That's it.

Oh and I don't know about trying to run a pistol grip without wrapping my thumb around it because I've never had to try.

I appreciate the responses, now I can sleep well at night knowing it's not a problem. At least in terms of safety. It is still aesthetically disturbing. When I first saw it I thought the fin came out of the center of the back of the grip, not the side, which is why I thought it was just there waiting for someone to dremel it off. The Thordsen mentioned earlier or the thumbhole style workarounds look a lot better to my eyes.
Listen to the LGC podcast: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/the ... 80021?mt=2

"None of us is as smart as all of us." - K. Blanchard

Re: Smith M&P CA Compliant

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lurker wrote:is there a formal definition of "pistol grip"? if someone made a grip canted back at, say, 20 degrees from horizontal, would it still legally be a pistol grip?
Those short grip shotguns are cosidered pistol grips, so are thumbhole stocks in California. If it doesn't have a buttstock it's a pistol grip basically. I'm surprised this batwing thing passes.

Re: Smith M&P CA Compliant

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lurker wrote:is there a formal definition of "pistol grip"? if someone made a grip canted back at, say, 20 degrees from horizontal, would it still legally be a pistol grip?
There is a formal definition in CA law and jurisprudence. I can't recite it from memory but you could find it at Calguns.
"To initiate a war of aggression...is the supreme international crime" - Nuremberg prosecutor Robert Jackson, 1946

Re: Smith M&P CA Compliant

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Marlene wrote:
lurker wrote:is there a formal definition of "pistol grip"? if someone made a grip canted back at, say, 20 degrees from horizontal, would it still legally be a pistol grip?
this is legal

https://twitter.com/youthradio/status/9 ... 3253705728

so is this

https://www.exilemachine.net/shop/image ... G_3908.JPG

but many of us feel the Thordsen Elmo linked is the best
So that woman was arrested for wearing a mask? I saw someone in the clip with a red bandana over their face, is that what they are arresting for? That is pretty fucked up right there.
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"None of us is as smart as all of us." - K. Blanchard

Re: Smith M&P CA Compliant

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Yeah, out of the options, the Thordsen feels the best. But having tried the other two options, neither is unsafe inherently. Idiots however, tend to be unsafe regardless of the configuration.
“Do the best you can until you know better. Then when you know better, do better.”
- Maya Angelou

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