M1917 Enfield (AKA American Enfield)

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M1917 Enfield
M1917 Enfield
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I have been perusing the local gun stores and pawn shops in greater Las Vegas. This place has no shortage of guns stores. And while the ones closer to the strip may be for tourists, most are for locals. Virtually all the firearms on the pegboards are 'tactical' and that turns out not to be to my taste. I really miss the old rows of hunting rifles.

I went into Peacemaker Firearms today and saw an old M1917 Enfield on the wall. It was not there 2 weeks ago.

I looked it over - the stock had been modestly sportsterized long ago (maybe in the 1950s). We had a heck of a time finding a light to shine up the bore, but it looked pretty clean to me.

The bolt action felt like brand new. The sights feel like they were made yesterday. Mine does not have a magazine cutout; you need to manually press down on the cartridge slider to close the bolt with no ammunition in the magazine. Everything felt brand new, which was in stark contrast to the somewhat beat up stock.

I bought the rifle for $199 and took it to MK3 Gunsmiths where Matt looked it over and said it was like new - he said "shoot away" (just use standard pressure ammunition).

I bought 3 boxes of Sellier and Bellot 150 gr M1 Garand ammo. Next weekend I will take it out to shoot.

I took my new baby home and cleaned her up. The bolt and assembly really look like there have been fewer than 100 rounds put through this rifle. After cleaning and oiling, the barrel and rifling look basically new.

The stock looks a little better with some oil on it, and of course, the parkerized finish has some wear marks where the bayonet holder was removed to cover it to a hunting rifle.

This was a good day.

As I was cleaning the rifle, I opened the small nickel sized latch on the butt. I had to carefully remove 3 live cartridges that may have been in there since the 1950s or 1960s. (In the stock, not the magazine.) YMMV, but as a former Marine, there is zero chance I will 'test' the 60 year old ammo. It is going in the range bucket for disposal.

The Danish army use a variant of this rifle today in Greenland (nothing else will work in the upper arctic.)

I would rather shoot .308, but .30-06 is a great cartridge - I'll ammo up for this rifle.

I have not fired it yet, but you just need to move the sight elevation up and down to feel the integrity of this weapon. The sights are far better than the stock M1 Garand sights - I am hoping I can keep shots on target at 150 to 200 yards just with the iron sights.
Enfield Sights
Enfield Sights
Ammo left in stock
Ammo left in stock
And I forgot to give credit to my wife who is a trained jeweler. She cleaned up the corroded butt plate to look (not like new!) uniformly clean for a 100 year old rifle.
Last edited by max129 on Sat Oct 27, 2018 10:04 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: M1917 Enfield (AKA American Enfield)

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Mine has all Remington marks.

I wish I could claim I did something brilliant to get such a nice rifle, but I just did not want to go home and work, so I went gun store hopping and got really lucky.

I watched a couple of tear down videos last night and saw some horrifying firing pins, so I figured I better go look there. It took me a few minutes to figure out how to detension the firing pin to unscrew the pin from the bolt assembly. Then I found that along with the rest of my rifle, the pin looks like new. I have found zero rust anywhere on the rifle. Clearly was stored in a very dry place (we call it Nevada.)

While my rifle was apart, I cleaned up the stock with linseed oil and #0000 steel wool - it looks better, but still is far more worn than the rest of the rifle.

It is requiring major discipline to not head to the rifle range but now I have to get some work done.

The Clark County range is really great, but it is almost an hour drive north of the city. And all of Clark County prohibits firing within 500 yards of just about any road. (Of course, with a .30-06, that is hardly a safe range either.) So I will stick to the rifle range and wait until next week to go.

I agree with you about how heavy the gun is. Even with the top wood and the fore stock reduced, it is a heavy firearm.
Remington M1917
Remington M1917
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Re: M1917 Enfield (AKA American Enfield)

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Given the added weight, I am not 100% certain I want a complete stock. (OK, I would LOVE a complete stock :-)

I looked up replacement stocks and got a little queasy - they are modern sportster stocks and would ruin my fun. Also, they would cost more than I paid for my rifle and I am sticking with my plan to not turn a $200 rifle into a $1,000 rifle.

I looked up my serial number and my weapon was made in June 1918. The war ended in November of the same year. But many of these rifles were refitted and used in WWII as guard rifles (not front line). They were heavy, and bolt action, but they used the same ammunition as the M1 Garand and freed up the more modern rifles to go to the war front.

Given the general condition of mine, I doubt it ever did more than practice firing and maybe a deer or two after being sportsterized.

More info ...

There were 3 live rounds stuck up in the stock where the cleaning kit is supposed to be.

Two of them are end stamped with "PETERS 30-06 SPRG". Perhaps I should not just throw these into the range bucket?
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Re: M1917 Enfield (AKA American Enfield)

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BillMcD said:

I would still dump the powder and pull the primers.
Thanks Bill - that is my new plan. I will pull the bullets, dump the power and fire the primers, then reseat the bullets.

I don't know how long after Remington acquired Peters that the casing were stamped "PETERS", but my guess is this ammo is older than I had originally thought.
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Re: M1917 Enfield (AKA American Enfield)

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https://www.shop.macongunstocks.com/Enf ... -5_c15.htm

They list 1917 Enfield replacement stock parts. Prices seem reasonable. Probably have to do some hand fitting.
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Re: M1917 Enfield (AKA American Enfield)

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Hey Doug - thanks for the link. And it mirrors what I have found elsewhere. I complain about my stock, but it is simply a bit beat up, not broken. To fully replace it would cost more than the price I paid for the rifle, and my plan is to 'shoot it', not hang it.

Yesterday I spent an hour with linseed oil and #0000 steel wool. The stock now looks better (cleaner for sure) and I think I will stick with this one for now.

My biggest effort now is to track down all the marks and cartouches to see where this thing has been. I had originally thought it was 1918 stock, but most of the writing says those were blued. Mine is Parkerized. Apparently that was the norm for those that were retrofit for WWII.

While I have nothing in writing, the oral provenance of this rifle is that it was "Owned by the seller's grandfather and was used in both WWI and WWII. Then stored in a trunk near Las Vegas for decades." That is all I know and as I have said above, given the dates of production, it likely did see duty in both wars, but very light duty.

All of this is a bit new for me. I had an interest in black power vintage weapons a few decades ago, but I have been way too busy to work on vintage rifles until the past year.
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Re: M1917 Enfield (AKA American Enfield)

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Lurker - really interesting that you just sent this now.

I bought my M1917 two weeks ago and have not had a chance to get to the long rifle range. (It's almost an hour away.)

I am going out this morning to shoot mine for the first time.

And on the way back, I am dropping off my S&W 686+ for a tune up at the gunsmiths. Work interferes with life and I really appreciate it when I can get to the range.

I'll let everyone know how it shoots later today.
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Re: M1917 Enfield (AKA American Enfield)

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Wow - what a great range experience. Great weather, no wait and no wind.

I did have an embarrassing moment: I braced myself for the first shot out of my M1917 - 'click'. FTF. OK, wait 30 seconds and eject the round. No mark on the primer.

I had taken my rifle apart and put it back together paying attention to detail. But I had not done the last screw turn on the bolt assembly to the firing pin. This was seriously embarrassing (since I did it myself). There is a locking piece on the end of the bold that gives you leverage on the really strong firing pin spring. I used my screwdriver to push this locking piece and gave the bolt head another turn. As soon as I did that I could see that it was 'right' - back in the breach and this time she went bang with a vengeance.

The only reason I am telling this embarrassing story on myself is that I was imagining if I was a WWI soldier in the same spot. What would he do? I had just started the 20 minute "hot fire' session at the range. I could have waited and had a gunsmith make sure all was well. But damn it, this is a soldier's rifle. If something is wrong and can be fixed in the field. Fix it. So I did and she fired fine.

The rifle shoots better than I do. My biggest concern was a 100 year old misaligned barrel. No problem. I put 20 rounds of .30-06 through her and everything was really just fine. I do laugh when I read that the standard peep sights are adjusted for 400 yards. Really, even at 100 yard, the front sight blade is bigger than the bullseye on the target. At 400 yards with iron sights (even with very good peep sights), at best, you are shooting at the target, not the bullseye.

Oh, I forgot to mention. WHAT A HOOT TO SHOOT. This baby goes "whomp" and you know why they were so biased towards their 1906 round. I wish I could take some water jugs to the rifle range, but not allowed. As it is , my groups for the first time out were respectable. I am sticking with iron sights for now, but the rifle is begging me to put optics on her to prove she can drive tacks at 100 yards. I amy have to look around for an optics solution that is no an insult to a vintage rifle.

Any suggestions on optics for a 100 year old .30-06?
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Re: M1917 Enfield (AKA American Enfield)

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max129 wrote: Sat Nov 10, 2018 11:28 pm Any suggestions on optics for a 100 year old .30-06?
no, afraid not. i dimly recall someone out there selling a repro scope mount for the '17, but that was easily 15 years ago. lemme sniff around, maybe i can find something. (eta no scope stuff, but i see sarco has some parts)
i'm an iron sights kind of guy anyway, our grandfathers shot these over irons and so can we. but yes, the '17 has a "feel" of competence. properly fed, if we do my part the rifle should be able to do anything we ask of it.
i'm retired. what's your excuse?

Re: M1917 Enfield (AKA American Enfield)

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Sorry Lurker - I gave kind of a standoffish answer. I guess I do actually care what the original vintage rifle experience was, grandfathers and all - it is part of the whole experience.

Mostly my complaint about iron sights is that I am not very good with them (yet). I plan to invest more time and get better. I still think that at 100 yards, I will be aiming at the target, not the bullseye :-)

And I really did look at a couple of vintage scopes - all were German and they cost 3x what I paid for my rifle. Like I said above, I am not willing to drill holes in my M1917. I will spend the money on ammunition and practice. The peep sights on the ladder have a slightly smaller aperture than the main sights - I will give that a try.

Thanks for your input.
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Re: M1917 Enfield (AKA American Enfield)

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no offense given, none taken.

speaking of grandfathers, i've heard that the '17 was the rifle used by sgt york to plug all those unfortunate german soldiers, even though he allegedly (again, just what i've seen or read somewhere) preferred the 03 and gary cooper used an 03 in the movie. so it's really all up to us. i've been shooting about 20 years now, not really all that long compared to some people, but am just recently beginning to get a sense of what these old things can do. please excuse me if i've told this story before (ok, ok, i know i have, but it's relevant).

last outing i took my krag and some handloads. i'm extremely meticulous about my handloads. i visually inspect each case and bullet before and after, and weigh EVERY SINGLE powder charge. so i look downrange 100 yds and pretty much see a blur. (i think my right eye is starting to go, and may have to try the left) a fuzzy cream rectangle surrounding a fuzzy black dot, and i aim for the center of the fuzzy dot, and the results are good i think, a 3" group, about 3" low-right of dead center at 100 yds, over irons. i believe that's pretty good. what did mel gibson's character say to his son in "the patriot"? "aim small, miss small". the rifle is capable enough, the rest is up to us, and that's why we go to the range. if it was easy, what would be the point?

i've also heard this story: after the revolution a british officer, impressed by the shooting he'd seen during the war, asked an american officer about it, and got this answer "the best that our men can do is to reliably hit the head of a man at 200 yds" or words to that effect. these were men who'd spent much of their lives in the woods, putting food on the table with their handmade rifles. they were good. they had to be. practice, practice, practice.
i'm retired. what's your excuse?

Re: M1917 Enfield (AKA American Enfield)

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max129 wrote: Sat Oct 27, 2018 9:43 pm I took my new baby home and cleaned her up. The bolt and assembly really look like there have been fewer than 100 rounds put through this rifle. After cleaning and oiling, the barrel and rifling look basically new.
Isn’t that the greatest feeling?

Bumping this old thread for my cautionary tale: I bought a beautiful old sporterized Enfield No. 4 Mk 1 and proceeded to have an ATI scope mount fitted to it with Weaver rings for a Leupold VX-2 scope. Everything was fine at first, but the rifle quickly became unable to hold zero — which I discovered on a deer hunt where I took four shots at 100 yards and all missed. I do have a scoped Springfield 1903, but that seems to lend itself better to a solid mount. I have opted for peep sights on all my other old milsurps.

Of course, YMMV and you might get top-quality mounts.

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