Re: FBI raids office of Trump's lawyer Michael Cohen

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dougb wrote: Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:05 pm
Wabatuckian wrote: Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:17 am It seems to me that these people do things in the name of "investigation" that would not be tolerated if the target of the investigation was, say, Hillary Clinton.

And some of you are OK with that because it IS Trump and not Clinton.

Regards,

Josh
Hillery lost the election and is not the President of the US. She is not in a position to destroy us with an act of stupid. That would seem like a reasonable basis for the priority being to investigate the Donald.
That and the old "if it looks like shit, smells like shit and tastes like shit (I'll take someone else's word on that last one), it's most likely shit." The pile in the White House seems to fit the adage.

Re: FBI raids office of Trump's lawyer Michael Cohen

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Eight months before the company that owns the National Enquirer paid $150,000 to a former Playboy Playmate who claimed she’d had an affair with Donald Trump, the tabloid’s parent made a $30,000 payment to a less famous individual: a former doorman at one of the real estate mogul’s New York City buildings. As it did with the ex-Playmate, the Enquirer signed the ex-doorman to a contract that effectively prevented him from going public with a juicy tale that might hurt Trump’s campaign for president. The payout to the former Playmate, Karen McDougal, stayed a secret until The Wall Street Journal published a story about it days before Election Day. Since then curiosity about that deal has spawned intense media coverage and, this week, helped prompt the FBI to raid the hotel room and offices of Trump’s personal lawyer, Michael Cohen. The story of the ex-doorman, Dino Sajudin, hasn’t been told until now.

The Associated Press confirmed the details of the Enquirer’s payment through a review of a confidential contract and interviews with dozens of current and former employees of the Enquirer and its parent company, American Media Inc. Sajudin got $30,000 in exchange for signing over the rights, “in perpetuity,” to a rumor he’d heard about Trump’s sex life — that the president had fathered a child with an employee at Trump World Tower, a skyscraper he owns near the United Nations. The contract subjected Sajudin to a $1 million penalty if he disclosed either the rumor or the terms of the deal to anyone. Cohen, the longtime Trump attorney, acknowledged to the AP that he had discussed Sajudin’s story with the magazine when the tabloid was working on it. He said he was acting as a Trump spokesman when he did so and denied knowing anything beforehand about the Enquirer payment to the ex-doorman. The parallel between the ex-Playmate’s and the ex-doorman’s dealings with the Enquirer raises new questions about the roles that the Enquirer and Cohen may have played in protecting Trump’s image during a hard-fought presidential election. Prosecutors are probing whether Cohen broke banking or campaign laws in connection with AMI’s payment to McDougal and a $130,000 payment to porn star Stormy Daniels that Cohen said he paid out of his own pocket.

Federal investigators have sought communications between Cohen, American Media’s chief executive and the Enquirer’s top editor, the New York Times reported. And on Thursday, the government watchdog group Common Cause filed complaints with the Justice Department and the Federal Election Commission, asking authorities to investigate whether the payment violated campaign finance laws. Cohen’s lawyer has called the raids “inappropriate and unnecessary.” American Media hasn’t said whether federal authorities have sought information from it, but said this week that it would “comply with any and all requests that do not jeopardize or violate its protected sources or materials pursuant to our First Amendment rights.” The White House didn’t respond to questions seeking comment. On Wednesday, an Enquirer sister publication, RadarOnline, published details of the payment and the rumor that Sajudin was peddling. The website wrote that the Enquirer spent four weeks reporting the story but ultimately decided it wasn’t true. The company only released Sajudin from his contract after the 2016 election amid inquiries from the Journal about the payment. The site noted that the AP was among a group of publications that had been investigating the ex-doorman’s tip.

During AP’s reporting, AMI threatened legal action over reporters’ efforts to interview current and former employees and hired the New York law firm Boies Schiller Flexner, which challenged the accuracy of the AP’s reporting. Asked about the payment last summer, Dylan Howard, the Enquirer’s top editor and an AMI executive, said he made the payment to secure the former Trump doorman’s exclusive cooperation because the tip, if true, would have sold “hundreds of thousands” of magazines. Ultimately, he said the information “lacked any credibility,” so he spiked the story on those merits. “Unfortunately ... Dino Sajudin is one fish that swam away,” Howard told RadarOnline on Wednesday. But four longtime Enquirer staffers directly familiar with the episode challenged Howard’s version of events. They said they were ordered by top editors to stop pursuing the story before completing potentially promising reporting threads.

They said the publication didn’t pursue standard Enquirer reporting practices, such as exhaustive stakeouts or tabloid tactics designed to prove paternity. In 2008, the Enquirer helped bring down presidential hopeful John Edwards in part by digging through a dumpster and retrieving material to do a DNA test that indicated he had fathered a child with a mistress, according to a former staffer. The woman at the center of the rumor about Trump denied emphatically to the AP last August that she’d ever had an affair with Trump, saying she had no idea the Enquirer had paid Sajudin and pursued his tip. The AP has not been able to determine if the rumor is true and is not naming the woman. “This is all fake,” she said. “I think they lost their money.” The Enquirer staffers, all with years of experience negotiating source contracts, said the abrupt end to reporting combined with a binding, seven-figure penalty to stop the tipster from talking to anyone led them to conclude that this was a so-called “catch and kill” — a tabloid practice in which a publication pays for a story to never run, either as a favor to the celebrity subject of the tip or as leverage over that person.

One former Enquirer reporter, who was not involved in the Sajudin reporting effort, expressed skepticism that the company would pay for the tip and not publish. “AMI doesn’t go around cutting checks for $30,000 and then not using the information,” said Jerry George, a reporter and senior editor for nearly three decades at AMI before his layoff in 2013. The company said that AMI’s publisher, David Pecker, an unabashed Trump supporter, had not coordinated its coverage with Trump associates or taken direction from Trump. It acknowledged discussing the former doorman’s tip with Trump’s representatives, which it described as “standard operating procedure in stories of this nature.” The Enquirer staffers, like many of the dozens of other current and former AMI employees interviewed by the AP in the past year, spoke on condition of anonymity. All said AMI required them to sign nondisclosure agreements barring them from discussing internal editorial policy and decision-making. Though sometimes dismissed by mainstream publications, the Enquirer’s history of breaking legitimate scoops about politicians’ personal lives — including its months-long Pulitzer Prize-contending coverage of presidential candidate Edwards’ affair — is a point of pride in its newsroom.

During the 2016 presidential campaign, the Enquirer published a string of allegations against Trump’s rivals, such as stories claiming Democratic rival Hillary Clinton was a bisexual “secret sex freak” and was kept alive only by a “narcotics cocktail.” Stories attacking Trump rivals or promoting Trump’s campaign often bypassed the paper’s normal fact-checking process, according to two people familiar with campaign-era copy. The tabloid made its first-ever endorsement by officially backing Trump for the White House. With just over a week before Election Day, Howard, the top editor, appeared on Alex Jones’ InfoWars program by phone, telling listeners that the choice at the ballot box was between “the Clinton crime family” or someone who will “break down the borders of the establishment.” Howard said the paper’s coverage was bipartisan, citing negative stories it published about Ben Carson during the Republican presidential primaries. In a statement last summer, Howard said the company doesn’t take editorial direction “from anyone outside AMI,” and said Trump has never been an Enquirer source. The company has said reader surveys dictate its coverage and that many of its customers are Trump supporters.

The company has said it paid McDougal, the former Playboy Playmate, to be a columnist for an AMI-published fitness magazine, not to stay silent. McDougal has since said that she regrets signing the non-disclosure agreement and is currently suing to get out of it. Pecker has denied burying negative stories about Trump, but acknowledged to the New Yorker last summer that McDougal’s contract had effectively silenced her. “Once she’s part of the company, then on the outside she can’t be bashing Trump and American Media,” Pecker said. In the tabloid world purchasing information is not uncommon, and the Enquirer routinely pays sources. As a general practice, however, sources agree to be paid for their tips only upon publication. George, the longtime former reporter and editor, said the $1 million penalty in Sajudin’s agreement was larger than anything he had seen in his Enquirer career. “If your intent is to get a story from the source, there’s no upside to paying upfront,” said George, who sometimes handled catch-and-kill contracts related to other celebrities. Paying upfront was not the Enquirer’s usual practice because it would have been costly and endangered the source’s incentive to cooperate, he said.

After initially calling the Enquirer’s tip line, Sajudin signed a boilerplate contract with the Enquirer, agreeing to be an anonymous source and be paid upon publication. The Enquirer dispatched reporters to pursue the story both in New York and in California. The tabloid also sent a polygraph expert to administer a lie detection test to Sajudin in a hotel near his Pennsylvania home. Sajudin passed the polygraph, which tested how he learned of the rumor. One week later, Sajudin signed an amended agreement, this one paying him $30,000 immediately and subjecting him to the $1 million penalty if he shopped around his information. The Enquirer immediately then stopped reporting, said the former staffers.

Cohen, last year, characterized the Enquirer’s payment to Sajudin as wasted money for a baseless story. For his part, Sajudin confirmed he’d been paid to be the tabloid’s anonymous source but insisted he would sue the Enquirer if his name appeared in print. Pressed for more details about his tip and experience with the paper, Sajudin said he would talk only in exchange for payment. “If there’s no money involved with it,” he said, “I’m not getting involved.”
https://www.apnews.com/f37ecfc4710b468db6a103a245146172
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: FBI raids office of Trump's lawyer Michael Cohen

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Wabatuckian wrote: Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:17 am It seems to me that these people do things in the name of "investigation" that would not be tolerated if the target of the investigation was, say, Hillary Clinton.

And some of you are OK with that because it IS Trump and not Clinton.

Regards,

Josh
If Clinton was President and had done HALF the shit Trump has done I'd want her impeached and subject to criminal trial.
But she's not President, just a private citizen. She's endured many, many years of investigations going back to White Water and NOTHING has ever come close to proving even a possible crime. Benghazi? There were THIRTEEN "Benghazis" under George W. Bush and over 60 Americans died in them. And the emails. Dumb, but not criminal.

But the stack of crimes Trump has committed going back decades all the way to 1973, when he was still in his 20's, to the crimes he committed, the collusion with organized crime, first the Italian Mafia, then the Russian Bratva, his illegal use of foreign workers, then his illegal refusal to pay them, his scam/sham "University", and finally, his clear and obvious collusion with a hostile foreign government to taint our elections....

Yeah, if Hillary had done half, or even less I'd want her impeached, too! But she's ancient history now and just something for Trump fans to squeal about as their pig hero sees his doom approach. Since his skin is orange, it will go well with an orange jumpsuit.

It amazes me how you continually defend this POS who could well start WWIII just to "wag the dog". Why do you care about him when it's clear he doesn't give a shit about you?
"Even if the bee could explain to the fly why pollen is better than shit, the fly could never understand."

Re: FBI raids office of Trump's lawyer Michael Cohen

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So Trump has been convicted of these things you say he did?

What is a "Benghazi?"

If you or I had a top secret clearance and was as negligent as Clinton was, we would be in jail.

I didn't especially like Trump. I'm coming to like him more. The relentless persecution of the man combined with the fact that nothing has turned up combined to make me slowly admit to myself that he may not be the guy I grew up thinking he was.

The questions I ask here are the same questions I pose, or have in the past posed, to myself.

One burning question is this: What crime is Mueller investigating? Collusion, so far as I've been able to find, is not a crime. A special council must have a charter that states the crime to be found out.

What crime is named in the charter?

The entire investigation is beginning to look to me like a bullshit excuse to keep the current administration under surveillance.

This was postulated by the right-leaning media, too, so I'm not the only one who wants to know.

Regards,

Josh
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Re: FBI raids office of Trump's lawyer Michael Cohen

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Wabatuckian wrote:So Trump has been convicted of these things you say he did?

What is a "Benghazi?"

If you or I had a top secret clearance and was as negligent as Clinton was, we would be in jail.

I didn't especially like Trump. I'm coming to like him more. The relentless persecution of the man combined with the fact that nothing has turned up combined to make me slowly admit to myself that he may not be the guy I grew up thinking he was.

The questions I ask here are the same questions I pose, or have in the past posed, to myself.

One burning question is this: What crime is Mueller investigating? Collusion, so far as I've been able to find, is not a crime. A special council must have a charter that states the crime to be found out.

What crime is named in the charter?

The entire investigation is beginning to look to me like a bullshit excuse to keep the current administration under surveillance.

This was postulated by the right-leaning media, too, so I'm not the only one who wants to know.

Regards,

Josh
Convicted, no. Investigated, certainly yes. I’m seeing a pattern with your line of reasoning. Perhaps Trump can do no wrong in your eyes. Even if he was convicted of treason with overwhelming evidence, based on past history I guess I would expect you to then post in this forum dismissing it as a commie coup. Still, I’m certain that you very much enjoy trolling a liberal gun forum. My god, liberals who enjoy shooting... wow.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Re: FBI raids office of Trump's lawyer Michael Cohen

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Yawn:
"If you or I had a top secret clearance and was as negligent as Clinton was, we would be in jail."

And, of course, you base that on the convictions and imprisonment for doing exactly the same thing, of Colin Powell and Condaleeza Rice.

Except, of course, NOTHING ever happened to either of them. Because Democrats don't investigate Republicans on phony, made-up issues, and Republicans do it to Democrats all the time.

So I suggest you see if you can enroll in Trump University and spend $30,000 to $35,000 learning how to make millions....
Oh. Wait. It's closed and Trump had to pay $25,000,000 in settlements for...defrauding the students.

If you're going to troll, at least try to be a bit clever about it.
"Even if the bee could explain to the fly why pollen is better than shit, the fly could never understand."

Re: FBI raids office of Trump's lawyer Michael Cohen

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Wabatuckian wrote: Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:23 pm This is a problem: When I try to join in the discussion, I'm accused of being a troll.

That sort of thing is just... ugly.
I suspect if you refrain from the "whataboutism" (i.e., what about Clinton), you'll fair better. It's a tired argument that really has no bearing on Trump's current legal morass. He's president. She is not.

I often enjoy your discussion on non-Trump topics. ;)

Re: FBI raids office of Trump's lawyer Michael Cohen

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Wabatuckian wrote: Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:23 pm This is a problem: When I try to join in the discussion, I'm accused of being a troll.

That sort of thing is just... ugly.

As Daniel Moynihan put it so well: You're entitled to your opinions. You're not entitled to your own "facts".

I'd add to that: you're not entitled to ignore inconvenient facts, either. The evidence of ties to Russia gets stronger every day. 3 convictions, more likely on the way, numerous indictments, each one closer and closer to Trump, led by Republicans, loyal, life-long Republicans. Even friends of Trump, like Chris Christie, defend the integrity of Mueller, Rosenstein, and Trump's acting US Attorney for the Southern District of New York.

If Trump wasn't guilty as hell he wouldn't be behaving the way he has. And Michael Cohen is a truly shitty attorney, in 'way, 'WAY over his head. He's used to acting like a Mafia enforcer and...when it doesn't work he's got nothing.

And I repeat: Trump doesn't give a rat's ass about you or me, or anything but feeding his base while he stabs them in the back. Just ask the nation's farmers, from the states that voted for him and were just sold down the river. He'll burn down the Constitution to save himself, if he can.
"Even if the bee could explain to the fly why pollen is better than shit, the fly could never understand."

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Trump isn't supposed to care about you or me. I don't care about him. He was hired to do a job.

There are many who speak ill of Mueller. It depends on the news source.

Looking on him all windows I can find, it looks like Mueller is pursuing a bogus investigation, getting as many incidental indictments on as many various charges as possible.

*It looks to me like the cop who pulls over a motorist for driving with a window down so that he has an excuse to look for pot.*

I'm only asking what crime the charter says he's supposed to be investigating.

I ask because I don't know.

You cannot gather evidence of any crime, direct or incidental, on a bogus warrant.

Regards,

Josh

P.S. I started investigating all this because I disliked Trump. I'm watching for the day he does do wrong, but it will have to be a criminal conviction arrived at by fair evidence-gathering.
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Re: FBI raids office of Trump's lawyer Michael Cohen

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Wabatuckian wrote: Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:23 pm This is a problem: When I try to join in the discussion, I'm accused of being a troll.

That sort of thing is just... ugly.
Josh, if you're just watching Fox and listening to Rush, Hannity etc., you're only getting one side with their agenda. If you really want a wider perspective, you have to read and research things, if there is a topic you don't understand Google it and find some objective sources. The memo from Rosenstein with Mueller's mandate for this investigation is online, Google it. If you want to gain insight into how Trump operates, read about Roy Cohn his mentor for years.

It may sound surprising but Mueller is proceeding rapidly in this investigation, past ones especially Whitewater (Ken Starr) dragged on for years. Mueller has indictments and some plea deals less that one year into the investigation. As a former FBI director and federal prosecutor who went after the mafia and got convictions, he knows how to conduct investigations.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: FBI raids office of Trump's lawyer Michael Cohen

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Wabatuckian wrote: Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:59 pm Trump isn't supposed to care about you or me. I don't care about him. He was hired to do a job.
Then you should be very happy with him. He's probably the first President, ever, who didn't give a damn about the American people.

That's you and me. And it's his JOB to care about the American People. To protect us, to keep us safe. "to ensure Domestic tranquility" "the Blessings of Liberty" and the rest of the stuff in the Preamble of the Constitution he SWORE to uphold. Otherwise what do we need him or any President for?
There are many who speak ill of Mueller. It depends on the news source.
And every one is a Trump crony who go down if he goes down. Don't compare Trump's or his defenders' reputations to Mueller's. That's very thin ice.
"Even if the bee could explain to the fly why pollen is better than shit, the fly could never understand."

Re: FBI raids office of Trump's lawyer Michael Cohen

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Now we hear that Cohen will file a stay in the Stomy Daniels case otherwise he will plead the Fifth.
Longtime Donald Trump lawyer Michael Cohen will be pleading the Fifth Amendment in the Stormy Daniels case, the former adult movie star’s attorney revealed on MSNBC’s Deadline: White House on Thursday.

“What is your understanding of where things stand with Mr. Cohen, your adversary in this legal contest about Stormy Daniels’s NDA?” anchor Nicolle Wallace asked Michael Avenatti.

“Well, we’ve learned moments ago — within the last two hours — that Michael Cohen will be filing a motion tomorrow in our case, an emergency motion, to stay or temporarily stop our case and the grounds for that motion are going to be that it is his intention to plead the 5th amendment against self-incrimination if our case goes forward, in light of potential criminal jeopardy that he finds himself in,” Avenatti revealed. “So, this is a stunning development.”

“Michael Cohen, who has been in essentially hand-to-hand combat with you over the enforcement of Stormy Daniels’s NDA is now going to plead the Fifth?” Wallace asked.

“Today we find out that it is his intention to plead the Fifth against self-incrimination in response to any questions that I may pose to him in connection with our case, they are going to seek an emergency stay,” Avenatti explained. “We are going to oppose that stay, we think we have very good grounds as to why there should be no delay in our case.”

“But make no mistake about it, we’re talking about the attorney to the President of the United States, the man that knows where a lot of bodies are buried,” he continued. “And we have learned within the last hour or two that it is his intention to plead the Fifth Amendment.”

“I find this incredibly ironic because Donald Trump has been very outspoken in the past about people that plead the Fifth,” Avenatti noted. “And I’m going to paraphrase some of those quotes, he said only mobsters plead the Fifth and you only plead the Fifth if you’re guilty.”

“It is your belief and your contention that you have the right to depose the president. Wow does Michael Cohen pleading the Fifth impact that prospect?” Wallace asked.

“If Michael Cohen pleads the Fifth, then we want to turn to the next individual, which would be the president, to provide us information as to what happened here,” Avenatti answered.

“Hopefully the president would not plead the Fifth,” he continued. “I think that would be a stunning, shocking development in the history of our nation to have him plead the Fifth.”
https://www.rawstory.com/2018/04/michae ... th-report/

It gets more interesting by the day.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

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We now know that Cohen had a habit of taping conversations. Seems the FBI has now possibly has the tapes and the WH along with Cohen are terrified they will tell a lot they want to remain hidden.
Former FBI Director James Comey once joked “Lordy I hope there are tapes,” when talking about conversations he had with President Donald Trump. Now it seems there might actually be tapes.

A Washington Post report revealed Thursday that Trump’s personal attorney Michael Cohen sometimes would tape conversations with associates. Allies of Trump’s are now fearful that those tapes are in the hands of the FBI, which raided Cohen’s office Monday.

“We heard he had some proclivity to make tapes,” a Trump adviser told The Post. “Now we are wondering, who did he tape? Did he store those someplace where they were actually seized? . . . Did they find his recordings?”

It’s currently unknown whether Cohen recorded his conversations with Trump himself, but two sources familiar with Cohen told The Post that Trump knew of the practice because Cohen would play recordings with other advisors.

“It was his standard practice to do it,” one person said.
https://www.rawstory.com/2018/04/white- ... gs-report/

Turnip and Cohem May come to wish they had an eighteen and one half minute gap in the recordings.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

Re: FBI raids office of Trump's lawyer Michael Cohen

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Cohen hasn't been arrested yet, so he's free to communicate with his boss. Cohen better hope that Trump doesn't record conversations or they could both be sunk. Cohen taking the 5th after all Trump has said. So Public Integrity lawyers SDNY and FBI are going through Cohen's tapes, it could take hours but probably connects with Mueller's investigation. This is turning into a soap opera, new episodes everyday.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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But the new [Washington] Post/ABC poll represents a major public vote of confidence in the investigation — and a major repudiation of Trump’s delegitimization of it as a mere “witch hunt.” It finds that 69 percent of Americans support Mueller’s efforts to investigate possible Russia-Trump campaign collusion, and 64 percent support Mueller’s investigation of Trump’s business activities, which, you may recall, Trump declared as a red line that Mueller mustn’t cross. It even finds that 58 percent support Mueller’s investigation of hush money paid to women who alleged affairs.

What about public attitudes toward Comey? Well, the poll finds that Americans see Comey as more believable than Trump by 48-32 and disapprove of Trump’s firing of Comey by 47-33. Those numbers aren’t that high for Comey, but they are shockingly low for Trump.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/pl ... d2ac453953
Beyond Mueller’s probe, a narrow 51 percent majority say the question of whether Trump engaged in a pattern of sexual misconduct is an important issue, while 46 percent say it’s not. Opinions overall are fairly similar to two decades ago when Post and ABC polls found nearly half saying repeated misconduct was an important issue for President Bill Clinton.

But the partisan balance has flipped. The share of Republicans saying sexual misconduct by the president is an important issue has fallen from 70 percent under Clinton to 25 percent under Trump, while the issue has grown in importance among Democrats, from 38 percent under Clinton to 75 percent under Trump.

Men and women differ significantly on two questions about Trump’s relations with women. Women are 14 percentage points more likely to say it’s important whether or not Trump engaged in a pattern of sexual misconduct, 58 percent compared with 44 percent for men. And women are 15 points more likely to support Mueller investigating hush-money payments to women who say they had affairs with Trump, 65 percent to 50 percent.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: FBI raids office of Trump's lawyer Michael Cohen

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featureless wrote: Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:29 pm
Wabatuckian wrote: Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:23 pm This is a problem: When I try to join in the discussion, I'm accused of being a troll.

That sort of thing is just... ugly.
I suspect if you refrain from the "whataboutism" (i.e., what about Clinton), you'll fair better. It's a tired argument that really has no bearing on Trump's current legal morass. He's president. She is not.

I often enjoy your discussion on non-Trump topics. ;)
↑↑This↑↑ Whataboutism is a tried and true propaganda technique. It was extremely popular in Soviet Russia and remains one of the most used tactics of Russian trolls. If you don't want to be called out for trolling, then don't troll.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

Re: FBI raids office of Trump's lawyer Michael Cohen

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joemac wrote: Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:01 pm
featureless wrote: Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:29 pm
Wabatuckian wrote: Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:23 pm This is a problem: When I try to join in the discussion, I'm accused of being a troll.

That sort of thing is just... ugly.
I suspect if you refrain from the "whataboutism" (i.e., what about Clinton), you'll fair better. It's a tired argument that really has no bearing on Trump's current legal morass. He's president. She is not.

I often enjoy your discussion on non-Trump topics. ;)
↑↑This↑↑ Whataboutism is a tried and true propaganda technique. It was extremely popular in Soviet Russia and remains one of the most used tactics of Russian trolls. If you don't want to be called out for trolling, then don't troll.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
Seriously? With all that's going on in the world you're worried about whataboutism? Well what about inner city crime? Guess you don't care about that.
Whatever I said above, just pretend I included the obligatory “both sides,” especially if I said something mean about Trump (don’t want to hurt any feelings).

www.schayden.com

Re: FBI raids office of Trump's lawyer Michael Cohen

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Greengunner wrote: Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:09 pm
joemac wrote: Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:01 pm
featureless wrote: Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:29 pm
Wabatuckian wrote: Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:23 pm This is a problem: When I try to join in the discussion, I'm accused of being a troll.

That sort of thing is just... ugly.
I suspect if you refrain from the "whataboutism" (i.e., what about Clinton), you'll fair better. It's a tired argument that really has no bearing on Trump's current legal morass. He's president. She is not.

I often enjoy your discussion on non-Trump topics. ;)
↑↑This↑↑ Whataboutism is a tried and true propaganda technique. It was extremely popular in Soviet Russia and remains one of the most used tactics of Russian trolls. If you don't want to be called out for trolling, then don't troll.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
Seriously? With all that's going on in the world you're worried about whataboutism? Well what about inner city crime? Guess you don't care about that.
Hey, what about the ethnic cleansing in Myanmar? Guess YOU don't care about that! :yikes:
"Even if the bee could explain to the fly why pollen is better than shit, the fly could never understand."

Re: FBI raids office of Trump's lawyer Michael Cohen

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Greengunner wrote: Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:09 pm
joemac wrote: Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:01 pm
featureless wrote: Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:29 pm
Wabatuckian wrote: Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:23 pm This is a problem: When I try to join in the discussion, I'm accused of being a troll.

That sort of thing is just... ugly.
I suspect if you refrain from the "whataboutism" (i.e., what about Clinton), you'll fair better. It's a tired argument that really has no bearing on Trump's current legal morass. He's president. She is not.

I often enjoy your discussion on non-Trump topics. ;)
↑↑This↑↑ Whataboutism is a tried and true propaganda technique. It was extremely popular in Soviet Russia and remains one of the most used tactics of Russian trolls. If you don't want to be called out for trolling, then don't troll.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
Seriously? With all that's going on in the world you're worried about whataboutism? Well what about inner city crime? Guess you don't care about that.
Greengunner, you missed the context here. The response was to Josh's frustration with being dog piled. A couple of us were trying to be helpful. Not sure where inner city crime comes up in this thread, but it's certainly a worthy topic. ;)

Re: FBI raids office of Trump's lawyer Michael Cohen

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featureless wrote: Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:28 pm
Greengunner wrote: Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:09 pm
joemac wrote: Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:01 pm
featureless wrote: Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:29 pm

I suspect if you refrain from the "whataboutism" (i.e., what about Clinton), you'll fair better. It's a tired argument that really has no bearing on Trump's current legal morass. He's president. She is not.

I often enjoy your discussion on non-Trump topics. ;)
↑↑This↑↑ Whataboutism is a tried and true propaganda technique. It was extremely popular in Soviet Russia and remains one of the most used tactics of Russian trolls. If you don't want to be called out for trolling, then don't troll.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
Seriously? With all that's going on in the world you're worried about whataboutism? Well what about inner city crime? Guess you don't care about that.
Greengunner, you missed the context here. The response was to Josh's frustration with being dog piled. A couple of us were trying to be helpful. Not sure where inner city crime comes up in this thread, but it's certainly a worthy topic. ;)
Yup. Just like Myanmar. And Boka Harum kidnapping young girls to be raped by its soldiers in Nigeria.

Let's have some SERIOUS "whataboutism" here!
"Even if the bee could explain to the fly why pollen is better than shit, the fly could never understand."

Re: FBI raids office of Trump's lawyer Michael Cohen

75
featureless wrote: Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:28 pm
Greengunner wrote: Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:09 pm
joemac wrote: Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:01 pm
featureless wrote: Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:29 pm

I suspect if you refrain from the "whataboutism" (i.e., what about Clinton), you'll fair better. It's a tired argument that really has no bearing on Trump's current legal morass. He's president. She is not.

I often enjoy your discussion on non-Trump topics. ;)
↑↑This↑↑ Whataboutism is a tried and true propaganda technique. It was extremely popular in Soviet Russia and remains one of the most used tactics of Russian trolls. If you don't want to be called out for trolling, then don't troll.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
Seriously? With all that's going on in the world you're worried about whataboutism? Well what about inner city crime? Guess you don't care about that.
Greengunner, you missed the context here. The response was to Josh's frustration with being dog piled. A couple of us were trying to be helpful. Not sure where inner city crime comes up in this thread, but it's certainly a worthy topic. ;)
It was a joke. I used a whataboutism in response to a comment about whataboutism, illustrating the folly of whataboutism. YankeeTarheel got it.
Whatever I said above, just pretend I included the obligatory “both sides,” especially if I said something mean about Trump (don’t want to hurt any feelings).

www.schayden.com

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