Any PA-63 Makarov owners out there?

1
I'm in a bit of a dilemma - I bought a SIG P6 for a carry gun, and over the past few years I've put money into it to improve it (maybe too much). The last improvement was some Meprolight night sights. When I took it to my LGS, the owner scratched the front of the slide pushing the sight on. He felt so bad about it he sent the slide out to have it polished and re-blued for free.

Which brings us to my problem - she's just too pretty to put in a holster now, so I'm looking for a new carry pistol. I read about how popular the Makarov (Bulgarian?) was at the meeting, and I had already been looking at Hungarian FEG PA-63s online. I know they're not true Makarovs; just a more unabashed Eastern Bloc knockoff of the Walther PP/PPK. I like the two-tone look and sleek (more PPK-like) lines of it compared to the Russian or German Makarovs, the Polish P-64 Radom, or Czech CZ-82 (although I'd take any of them for the right price). It also has the American-style mag release.

I haven't found many reviews as to their reliability, though. I know if I purchase one, it'll need a stronger recoil spring (19 - 21 lb?) to reduce the snappiness; and lighter (9 lb?) mainspring for the awful DA pull (No problem - went thru the same thing with the P6). Any PA-63 owners out there have any other pertinent information I need before deciding to purchase? I see them all over online for $200 - $250. Which, as an owner of three SIGs, seems quite reasonable.

Anyone feel like talking me out of it? Is this a viable carry gun, or just a fun range gun? Should I spend a few more dollars and get a steel-framed Makarov or CZ-82? I'm 90% ready to buy, but asking for advice never hurt anyone . . . .

Educate me, please.
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Re: Any PA-63 Makarov owners out there?

3
I agree, except for weight. The CZ is a 2 lb gun. The FEG is 21oz, and those 9 oz means the difference between a pocket carry or easy daily carry and carry with a significant gun belt.

The CZ is an all steel beast, and is the best Mak shooter out there with the highest capacity. The FEG is the lightest Mak shooter, the P-64 is all steel and slightly heavier, very compact though it gives up a round in capacity to do this. Depends on whether or not you think capacity is critical. I don't - I mostly carry 5 shot revolvers confidently. All of these Mak models are used for carry by quite a few folks, they are as a group fairly compact and reasonably light for mostly steel frames.

All these Maks are reliable as hell, they were all military issue. None of them have a magazine safety, that's a conscious choice.

The CZ is a 12+1, FEG a 7+1 and the P-64 a 6+1. The original Pistolet Makarova (PM) is an 8+1. I've own(ed) them all except the P-64, which as I understand it is a bit snappy with muzzle flip to shoot and needs some spring work to tame it.

I probably shoot the PA and CZ about the same at the range line, both quite a bit better than the PM. The FEG is a natural pointer for me and easier/more accurate for me to snap shoot, and with the weight I've carried it far more than any of the others.

I will say it's easier to get a good CZ than a good FEG. I've owned the FEG in the PA-63 model, and currently own the AP9 (.380) and AP7.65 (.32acp). I dunno what it is, I've learned enough about these guns and how I shoot with them to be a fan. They are probably the most delicate of the Maks, but these guns were designed to be stupid rugged as a group, so they end up being about the average for most used guns, about like a used Beretta.
When only cops have guns, it's called a police state.
I carry due to toxic masculinity.......just other people's.

Re: Any PA-63 Makarov owners out there?

5
If you don't mind not having a hammer block, the FÉG PA-63 or Radom P-64 might work. The PA-63's firing pin does drop out of the line of the hammer face when the hammer is uncocked. I have carried a P-64 and found it superior to Makarovs in quality and accuracy. The trigger needed work, and the gun was heavy. Modern polymer striker guns have proven themselves more appealing for carry since then.
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Re: Any PA-63 Makarov owners out there?

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I own one in .380 marked both PA-63 and AP-9. I did have to have the main spring mellowed out because it took a man, a boy,and a winch to get that DA trigger back. It's a decent little pistol. One thing I liked was that the functions, safety/decocker, etc, were similar to the Sig 220 I was carrying a as a duty weapon at the time. $200 to $250 isn't bad, especially if you can find one with the spring already modified.
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Re: Any PA-63 Makarov owners out there?

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I haven't heard anything bad about them and they have a good following.

Do you have access to 9x18 FMJ and/or JHP? Mail order isn't too expensive but it's nice to have local options. The hollow points may also be afterthought drill outs like 7.62x25.

It might be easier to get defensive .380 or 9mm for a Makarov in .380 or a small single stack 9mm.
Brian

Re: Any PA-63 Makarov owners out there?

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Or make your own like I do. Take 9mm Luger brass, shave 1mm off, and enjoy. All kinds of bullets available, or buy Russian or Ukrainian bimetal steel jacketed ammo for extra penetration. I have a couple of loads for Hornaday XTP bullets that work well.
When only cops have guns, it's called a police state.
I carry due to toxic masculinity.......just other people's.

Re: Any PA-63 Makarov owners out there?

9
A few thoughts in response to the many good replies:

Making comparisons to my P6, I don't have a problem with the lower capacity of the PA-63. Due to its potential for feed lip problems with full magazine pressures, I carry my P6 in a 6+1 configuration, and my spare mags carry only 6 rounds also. And I wouldn't mind a smaller size and lighter weight. (ETA: smaller & lighter is very important - living in AZ, I might wear a jacket 10 days in a year).

Owning 3 SIGs, I have no problem with an aluminum frame (oh wait - let's not forget the 0.1% titanium in the PA-63 frame!), and I like the familiar feeling of a decocker that goes down, even if it is in the wrong place :D . If my research is correct, don't all the other models go up? Also, I'm okay with that and a heavy DA pull being the only safety. And like I said, putting on a couple of $8 springs is no big deal. I can spend 5 seconds on the recoil spring and have the rest of the day to fight with the mainspring.

And thanks for reminding me they're all military pistols, and thus all reliable. I'll have to check around town for 9x18, but I know I can always order it online for about the same price as 9x19. Presently, I don't reload, but I do save all my brass for the day I start.

I'll expand my search to include some other models, but sometimes you just gotta buy a gun 'cause it's neat looking, right?
Last edited by Aztex999 on Fri Nov 14, 2014 11:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there - George Harrison
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Re: Any PA-63 Makarov owners out there?

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I've got a PA-63, generally it's a nice gun. The recoil spring is 11 lbs, replace it with the 15 lb. spring from Wolff. The factory standard hammer spring is 16 lbs, Wolff's 11 lb. hammer spring worked fine. Their 9 lb. hammer spring resulted in light strikes. I got several hundred rounds thru it before I realized it was ever so slightly (.5 mm?) short chambered. It's not unheard of apparently, you might take a fired 9x18 cartridge with you to make sure the slide fits flush to the frame when loaded.

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread. ... ish-reamer

The circle-10 Bulgarian? What a gun. It's one of the better weapons I own, although I prefer the PA-63's ergonomics.
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Re: Any PA-63 Makarov owners out there?

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AmirMortal wrote:My vote is for the cz82/83. Superior in every respect, IMO, YMMV.
I like Sheepishlion's pistols and the CZ 82 was fun to shoot! The CZ 82 is a great pistol and can be found at reasonable prices. Wouldn't mind one myself!
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Re: Any PA-63 Makarov owners out there?

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Antiquus wrote:I'd be comfortable buying one through an FFL that sells surplus. Other than that I'd want to either buy it in person, or buy it with a 3 day inspection and return.
I was going to ask you what to be aware of, but it appears OldScratch covered that. Are you saying the PA-63 has the same Century quality control as the WASR-10 - hit or miss?
If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there - George Harrison
Don't go where the road don't go - Ringo Starr

Re: Any PA-63 Makarov owners out there?

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I own a PA-63, several Makarovs (Soviet and East German) and a couple of CZ-82's. While I like the compact nature of the PA-63 its fit-and-finish (both inside and out) is several tiers below both the CZ and the Mak. The PA is very much the epitome of a C&R gun - a second-tier eastern bloc officer gun. It's a neat little gun and I'm glad I own it, but its uses are pretty limited. As has been pointed out in this thread, figure on both a detail clean/strip and a new set of springs as soon as it comes out of the box. The trigger out of the box is kind of crappy but it responds well to a bit of polishing.

In contrast, the Mak is an all-steel monster and very much an example of the kind of impressive simplicity and efficiency that came out of a certain era/sector of the USSR and I don't hesitate to carry mine from time to time. It's a super-solid piece and I find it a pleasure to shoot. A nice Mak is easily on a top-10 list of classic pistols to own and/or shoot. It's also easy to work on and while parts aren't as plentiful as they used to be they're still not too hard to come by.

Finally, the CZ-82 is in pretty much every respect a modern gun that happens to have a C&R designation - mag release in the right place, good safety setup, decent DA/SA action and trigger, reliable double-stack mag and fit and finish on the same par as modern CZ's (which to say quite good) and plenty of parts availability. The nasty oven paint that they come with is kind of disappointing but it's durable and refinishing is very doable. There are a couple of mechanical aspects of the gun that make it an absolute pain in the ass to detail strip but, in general, it's no more so than a number of other DA/SA semis (..and there's almost never a need to strip it to that level anyhow). Best of all it ends up costing less than half what a comparable gun would go for - notably including the now-discontinued CZ-83, which was the same gun in .380 but cost 2-2.5X more. The prices have gone up over the last few years (I paid a chunk under $200 for my first one) but it's still hands-down one of the best values out there.

Re: Any PA-63 Makarov owners out there?

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I wouldn't agree PM's fit and finish are better than FEG's. The trigger on the PM's is just doesn't feel like it's connected to anything, I get no tactile feedback until it breaks which makes it feel mushy. After swapping out the hammer spring, the FEG trigger feels pretty good, I can tell exactly when it's going to break. PM's aren't bad guns by any stretch, but in comparison to the FEG, which is a faithful copy of a Walther, they aren't as refined.
When only cops have guns, it's called a police state.
I carry due to toxic masculinity.......just other people's.

Re: Any PA-63 Makarov owners out there?

18
Thanks for the link, inomaha! With 2 mags and a holster, $198 is a great price, as long as their S&H is reasonable. (edit - it's free!)

After a lot of consideration, YouTube videos, and price searches on the internet, I'm going to stay with the PA-63 because of its size, weight, looks, and familiar decocker position. I guess if I get a lemon, at that price I can resell without taking a loss. Thanks to every one of you for your input. :thumbup:

BTW - those Stars needs some smith work done - they're not in working condition.
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ETA - didn't want to necro this thread, so I thought I'd just add an edit that no one will probably ever read - I finally ordered a PA-63 from Widener's on Dec. 16th. It arrived at my FFL on the 22nd. All matching numbers, and other than some expected holster wear near the front of the slide, in very good shape. I already ordered and received a recoil spring and a hammer spring kit from Midway, and picked up a box of SD ammo locally this morning. Tonight I'll spend Christmas Eve cleaning it and replacing the springs; next payday, I'll order a few hundred rounds of FMJ and go out and see how she shoots!
If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there - George Harrison
Don't go where the road don't go - Ringo Starr

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