My wife signed up for CCW class at our local range and is currently trying to decide what gun to purchase for concealed carry (it must be a revolver).
I have a 642 Airweight .38 snubby and she finds the recoil to be a bit too much for her. She's rather petite.
She really likes the Ruger LCR .22 magnum, but is concerned that it is not enough for self defense. I figure it is certainly better than 22lr and with Hornady Critical Defense rounds, isn't as much of a weakling as people think.
She may also be interested in a .32 h&w magnum, but neither of us has ever shot one and have no idea how the recoil compares to the 38 Special. Not to mention the availability of non-acp ammo.
In short... Can anyone recommend a snub nose revolver with less recoil than a 38, but with better stopping power than 22lr? Internal hammer like my 642 would be a big plus, as well.
Thanks for any knowledge and advice you can send her way.
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Re: Recoil comparison and advice needed.
2Does Michigan have caliber requirements for concealed handgun license testing?
Re: Recoil comparison and advice needed.
3Nope. We take an 8 hour class, 3 of which are on the range with sp101 22s, followed by a 25 question open book test. Then we go get finger printed and wait 4 weeks for the CPL to arrive in the mail.
That's it.
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That's it.
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Re: Recoil comparison and advice needed.
4If the testing gun is already set I'd just go try a few handguns out after completing the process. While a .22LR is deadly in the right hands it's probably not the most recommended caliber for self defense carry. Guns have so many variables and she really should handle some before any decision.
Re: Recoil comparison and advice needed.
5One, that air weight .38 snubbie contributes significantly to felt recoil.
a heaver .38 would mitigate that recoil force quite a bit.
Two, shoot cowboy loads. Not as much power as a standard .38, but still a lethal defense.
Try a regular all-steel snub nose with cowboy loads. She should find it quite comfortable.
a 158 gr. lead bullet at 700-750 fps is plenty lethal.
a heaver .38 would mitigate that recoil force quite a bit.
Two, shoot cowboy loads. Not as much power as a standard .38, but still a lethal defense.
Try a regular all-steel snub nose with cowboy loads. She should find it quite comfortable.
a 158 gr. lead bullet at 700-750 fps is plenty lethal.
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Re: Recoil comparison and advice needed.
6The problem is that the range/lgs that we belong to doesn't have any 32 revolvers (let alone h&w magnum) for her to try out.sikacz wrote:If the testing gun is already set I'd just go try a few handguns out after completing the process. While a .22LR is deadly in the right hands it's probably not the most recommended caliber for self defense carry. Guns have so many variables and she really should handle some before any decision.
How does the recoil compare to the 38?
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Re: Recoil comparison and advice needed.
7I have limited experience with revolvers. I like the .38 Special round myself and did not feel the recoil was very significant. I would try the idea of a heavier gun in the revolver and see how the cowboy load effects her feel and shooting. You could try it on your revolver. We have a few here with a great deal of expertice with revolvers. I'm sure they will chime in.Thorian wrote:The problem is that the range/lgs that we belong to doesn't have any 32 revolvers (let alone h&w magnum) for her to try out.sikacz wrote:If the testing gun is already set I'd just go try a few handguns out after completing the process. While a .22LR is deadly in the right hands it's probably not the most recommended caliber for self defense carry. Guns have so many variables and she really should handle some before any decision.
How does the recoil compare to the 38?
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Re: Recoil comparison and advice needed.
8The neat thing about revolvers chambered for .32 H&R magnum is that they will also take .32 S&W Long or .32 S&W. If .32 H&R is still too snappy for her, she can back down to one of the other .32 cartridges. Another choice is .327 Federal magnum, but it produces a good bit more felt recoil that the H&R. But you can also fire all the other .32s in a revolver chambered for .327.
Some revolver choices are the S&W model 632, Ruger SP101 and Ruger LCR. I think Taurus also has one. Hopefully you can find a range that has a .327, the newest of the .32 cartridges.
Some revolver choices are the S&W model 632, Ruger SP101 and Ruger LCR. I think Taurus also has one. Hopefully you can find a range that has a .327, the newest of the .32 cartridges.
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Re: Recoil comparison and advice needed.
9Try the Taurus Model 85s. We have two. Her favorite. Has a bit of weight to it and mitigates the recoil. 38 SP is a good self defense round.
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Re: Recoil comparison and advice needed.
10If you are looking at a snubnose for her to carry I would say get a steel frame 38. Spl snubnose and use 38 spl wadcutter. Now before everybody screams at me read the article. You have good penetration. low recoil. It cuts into tissue not just pushing it apart. To get expansion in hollow points you have to increase velocity. You can do it two ways, by having a longer barrel or increase the powder with more fast burning powder. That will also increase recoil making the gun uncomfortable to shoot.
http://www.handgunsmag.com/ammo/ammunit ... rs_200901/
As a RN that worked in an urban hospital ER, I have seen many gunshot wounds. I also worked as an EMT in the city contract ambulance service and saw both the living and dead from gunshot wounds. A 38 spl hollow point that doesn't expand makes a small hole just like a FMJ ball round and doesn't do much. A wadcutter cuts a track and make a lager real hole cutting blood vessels, nerves and chipping bones. It is a more devastating wound.
BTW when I carry it normally is a 357 mag with Gold Dots in a 3 inch 686 plus or 44 mag in a Ruger Alaskan and sometimes I do carry a Sig P227 in 45 ACP with Gold Dots.
So I do carry hollow points but I don't have a problem with recoil or weight of the handgun.
http://www.handgunsmag.com/ammo/ammunit ... rs_200901/
As a RN that worked in an urban hospital ER, I have seen many gunshot wounds. I also worked as an EMT in the city contract ambulance service and saw both the living and dead from gunshot wounds. A 38 spl hollow point that doesn't expand makes a small hole just like a FMJ ball round and doesn't do much. A wadcutter cuts a track and make a lager real hole cutting blood vessels, nerves and chipping bones. It is a more devastating wound.
BTW when I carry it normally is a 357 mag with Gold Dots in a 3 inch 686 plus or 44 mag in a Ruger Alaskan and sometimes I do carry a Sig P227 in 45 ACP with Gold Dots.
So I do carry hollow points but I don't have a problem with recoil or weight of the handgun.
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Re: Recoil comparison and advice needed.
11S&W 640 is the all stainless version of your 642 and is way more comfortable to shoot. The SP101 is even easier than that.
Don't go lighter caliber, go heavier gun. Your 642 is no fun to shoot at all. The 640 is an all day shooter with 38s. It's still better than 38s in the 642 with 357s.
Don't go lighter caliber, go heavier gun. Your 642 is no fun to shoot at all. The 640 is an all day shooter with 38s. It's still better than 38s in the 642 with 357s.
Re: Recoil comparison and advice needed.
12She is currently doing a lot of (Google) research and taking all of your suggestions into account.
Right now she is admitting that the 642 wasn't more than she can handle, just more than she would enjoy practicing with. The idea of 148gr wadcutters and/or Long colts for low recoil practice has opened the door a bit.
At the moment, she's looking at the 638 for the non-snag shrouded hammer and single action ability or the 640 for the weight.
Thanks for the help. I will feel better with her carrying an effective caliber.
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Right now she is admitting that the 642 wasn't more than she can handle, just more than she would enjoy practicing with. The idea of 148gr wadcutters and/or Long colts for low recoil practice has opened the door a bit.
At the moment, she's looking at the 638 for the non-snag shrouded hammer and single action ability or the 640 for the weight.
Thanks for the help. I will feel better with her carrying an effective caliber.
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Re: Recoil comparison and advice needed.
13I'd carry a 32, but I'd put it exactly where I meant to, which makes it infinitely more effective.
Re: Recoil comparison and advice needed.
14The heavier the pistol construction the more recoil it may take up, the idea of a .38 SP and .38 SP +P's in a Ruger SP-101 looks to be a good match up.
Opinion from may is that the .22LR is just too small for self defense - the minimum be .380 or .38 SP.
There's also .380 semi-auto pistols abound out there, I found some Remington Golden Saber .380 ACP in 100 Grain loads the norm is 92 Grain.
The S&W 624 Airweight seems nice too and it can handle +P's.
Maybe you can find an indoor/outdoor range that will let you rent one or more pistols and see what they are like.
Opinion from may is that the .22LR is just too small for self defense - the minimum be .380 or .38 SP.
There's also .380 semi-auto pistols abound out there, I found some Remington Golden Saber .380 ACP in 100 Grain loads the norm is 92 Grain.
The S&W 624 Airweight seems nice too and it can handle +P's.
Maybe you can find an indoor/outdoor range that will let you rent one or more pistols and see what they are like.
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Re: Recoil comparison and advice needed.
15How is she going to carry it - in her purse, on her waist, on her thigh .... ? A 32 revolver or semi-auto would probably work the best. If you can't find a 32 revolver, the Beretta Tomcat is a semi-auto that weighs about 15 ozs and holds 7 rounds. The barrel tips up to load the last one. It's snappy but less than an Airweight 38 Spl.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan
Re: Recoil comparison and advice needed.
16I think that 32 ACP is the best choice, but you need the right ammo. I have posted a link to a 32 ACP test on YouTube. It compares HP, FMJ, and Lehigh and Underwood xTreme Cavitator ammo. The Underwood and Lehigh met FBI test standards for penetration with good permanent wound channel. The FMJ over penetrated with poor wound channel. The HP (federal I think under penetrated.
It is not cheap ammo, but what is a few $ when your life might depend on it.
This is the link: https://youtu.be/Lf-IF1emoJI
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It is not cheap ammo, but what is a few $ when your life might depend on it.
This is the link: https://youtu.be/Lf-IF1emoJI
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Re: Recoil comparison and advice needed.
17I shoot a lot of .38 special with my Ruger LCR .357. Really not much recoil. Much less if you can find lower powered SD ammo.
Re: Recoil comparison and advice needed.
18Just out of curiosity, why?Thorian wrote:My wife signed up for CCW class at our local range and is currently trying to decide what gun to purchase for concealed carry (it must be a revolver).
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Re: Recoil comparison and advice needed.
19Would your wife like to join this conversation? She could sign on and ask some of the women here in a thread or by PM later.
Re: Recoil comparison and advice needed.
20I assume you mean why must it be a revolver. This is from the Taurus thread.Inger19 wrote:Just out of curiosity, why?Thorian wrote:My wife signed up for CCW class at our local range and is currently trying to decide what gun to purchase for concealed carry (it must be a revolver).
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As of bedtime last night, she is leaning toward a S&W 638 .38 Airweight. It is exactly like my 642, but it has a shrouded hammer, so that she can shoot single action. The double action trigger pull on the 642 is part of the problem for her with my gun.Thorian wrote:It was a Taurus 9mm that fired out of chamber while the cartridge was failing to eject that nearly killed my wife (ricochet grazed her neck). She loves revolvers, but that experience caused her to ban all semi auto pistol from the house.
She doesn't want a heavier gun, because she plans to purse carry. The recoil is still a concern, but if she uses 148gr wadcutters (or other low recoil rounds) for target practice, she should be fine. She can still use Specials for defense, since the recoil won't much matter in a survival scenario.
The input she's gotten here has been very helpful. Decision paralysis is a hell of a thing. Heheh
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Re: Recoil comparison and advice needed.
21Has she tried the LCR in 38sp? My wife was sold on the S&W 642 until she rented and shot one. She shot the LCR after, and the difference was amazing. It's not a heavier gun or lighter recoil exactly, just much more pleasant to shoot for her.
Re: Recoil comparison and advice needed.
22I asked her that already, but she's not much of a forum person. She just asked me to ask you folks if you had any suggestions, so here we are.sikacz wrote:Would your wife like to join this conversation? She could sign on and ask some of the women here in a thread or by PM later.
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Re: Recoil comparison and advice needed.
23Understandable. My wife is not a forum type either.Thorian wrote:I asked her that already, but she's not much of a forum person. She just asked me to ask you folks if you had any suggestions, so here we are.sikacz wrote:Would your wife like to join this conversation? She could sign on and ask some of the women here in a thread or by PM later.
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Re: Recoil comparison and advice needed.
24She really likes the LCR and fondled one at Cabela's yesterday, but hasn't had the opportunity to shoot one. We don't have a lot of "try out" guns available at our local range(s) unfortunately.Mohead wrote:Has she tried the LCR in 38sp? My wife was sold on the S&W 642 until she rented and shot one. She shot the LCR after, and the difference was amazing. It's not a heavier gun or lighter recoil exactly, just much more pleasant to shoot for her.
That gun is a definite possibility, though. We're going to a large gun show on the 25th and will probably leave with either the S&W or the LCR.
The LCR's plastic frame is a little concerning. The gun is even lighter than the 642, so the recoil would be even snappier, wouldn't it?
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Re: Recoil comparison and advice needed.
25I'd put a lot of weight on Marlene's opinion on revolvers.