Re: Why no safeties?

76
When I taught prospective and current LEO's I always taught them to use safeties. The extra minute movement gives you a little extra time to assess the situation and if you loose your sidearm in a struggle, very few criminals are familiar with safeties. If your muscle memory finds it to hard to use a safety how can you think you can possibly shoot accurately in a high stress situation?

Re: Why no safeties?

77
LEO's are often given a heads up to situations, for example, called to a robbery. As such they are starting from an awareness of the possibility of a threat. Civilians on the other hand are more likely to be faced with a sudden ambush from punks say in a parking lot at night, where the defender is going from a state of yellow alert (at best) to red alert with no warning. I've often heard similar comparisons between LEO's and civilians for various things and while some are highly valid, some are less so when the nature and timing of threats is taken into account. So, I don't agree with the analogy in this instance.

That being said, I am an absolute firm believer in a safety for a semi, whose triggers are designed for highly accurate shooting with minimum poundage and pull. But for a DA revolver, the safety is the long and harder trigger pull itself.

Grant Cunningham's book about snubnoses, Protect Yourself with a Snubnose Revolver, really outlines the benefits of a revolver for the civilian defender, including a discussion of the safety issue. Also, I have watched so many you tube videos of actual engagements that happen in the flash of an eye to convince me that I am better prepared with a revolver than to take a chance with a semi.

But to each his own, what works for me may not be what's best for others.

Re: Why no safeties?

78
Too many times at the range I have found the safety on my TDA Smiths on. 3rd gen S&W are typically slide mounted and I tend to rack overhand, which means you can set the safety by accident.

As my mentor said "That safety will get you killed.".

First decision on a OWB carry is do you want to have to look when holstering. I don't, so I have ones where putting my thumb on hammer prevents the gun from firing no matter how the trigger is inadvertantly pulled. Pull the trigger as hard as you want, but you will never be able to overcome the thumb on the hammer.

Grip safety on the S&W MP 380 EZ performs the same function. Move thumb to back of slide and holster without looking. No way it can go off.

Re: Why no safeties?

79
I really wonder how many of the people teaching about concealed carry have any law enforcement experience. I had various jobs over 36 years that involved carrying a handgun. I never had to do a fast draw. I reality I think too many people have watch too many "Hollywood" shootouts.

Re: Why no safeties?

80
JoelB wrote: Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:17 pm I really wonder how many of the people teaching about concealed carry have any law enforcement experience. I had various jobs over 36 years that involved carrying a handgun. I never had to do a fast draw. I reality I think too many people have watch too many "Hollywood" shootouts.
I'm not allowed to carry by my overlords. However, I've naval gazed about it quite a bit and agree with you. In my opinion, if you're looking at a quick draw to solve the problem, ya dun fucked up. :)

Re: Why no safeties?

81
JoelB wrote: Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:17 pm I really wonder how many of the people teaching about concealed carry have any law enforcement experience. I had various jobs over 36 years that involved carrying a handgun. I never had to do a fast draw. I reality I think too many people have watch too many "Hollywood" shootouts.
Have you ever watched LFI's Handgun Safety video? Mas Ayoob does a very good job with the 'hows' and 'whys' of safeties, and the hows and why-nots of things like an overhand rack.
Who has a Smith or Beretta pistol I can borrow for a sec? Thank you. OK, your wing-type slide mounted safety decock lever - the Walther type safety, if you will, used today on the Walther, the Smith and Wesson, the Beretta, a few of the Tanfoglio clones, and some other guns. Using the overhand slide [grip], this pistol's in a firing battery. We're going to replicate for you what happened to a Metro Dade police officer earlier this year who got into a gunfight. His pistol jammed. He worked the slide - he should have been able to come up firing and shoot the man that was coming at him with a shotgun - and instead he jammed his own pistol. Because the hand came up over like this and when you grab it the safety goes down and the guy's here going like this [quickly pulling the trigger] and thank God there was an off-duty cop in the parking lot with a Glock who shot the guy down and killed him and saved the man's life.

Re: Why no safeties?

82
featureless wrote: Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:25 pm
JoelB wrote: Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:17 pm I really wonder how many of the people teaching about concealed carry have any law enforcement experience. I had various jobs over 36 years that involved carrying a handgun. I never had to do a fast draw. I reality I think too many people have watch too many "Hollywood" shootouts.
I'm not allowed to carry by my overlords. However, I've naval gazed about it quite a bit and agree with you. In my opinion, if you're looking at a quick draw to solve the problem, ya dun fucked up. :)
Yes, the odds of having to draw are small. If the day turns bad, though, I'd much rather be able to quickly draw from cover to stop a threat than need to and not know how. Killing someone would suck. Watching someone I couldn't stop kill my son would suck more.

Re: Why no safeties?

83
AndyH wrote: Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:05 pm
featureless wrote: Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:25 pm
JoelB wrote: Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:17 pm I really wonder how many of the people teaching about concealed carry have any law enforcement experience. I had various jobs over 36 years that involved carrying a handgun. I never had to do a fast draw. I reality I think too many people have watch too many "Hollywood" shootouts.
I'm not allowed to carry by my overlords. However, I've naval gazed about it quite a bit and agree with you. In my opinion, if you're looking at a quick draw to solve the problem, ya dun fucked up. :)
Yes, the odds of having to draw are small. If the day turns bad, though, I'd much rather be able to quickly draw from cover to stop a threat than need to and not know how. Killing someone would suck. Watching someone I couldn't stop kill my son would suck more.
Absolutely. I get to go with fists of fury either way. Keeps time devoted to practicing the draw down, so there's that. :blush:

Re: Why no safeties?

84
JoelB wrote: Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:17 pm I really wonder how many of the people teaching about concealed carry have any law enforcement experience. I had various jobs over 36 years that involved carrying a handgun. I never had to do a fast draw. I reality I think too many people have watch too many "Hollywood" shootouts.
Ah... one can watch many, many security videos on you tube of actual engagements, and very often... I'd even say most of the time for sudden engagements, the time between the threat and first shot (from either direction) is very short. My goal would be to win that contest. So, I think it is an inaccurate stereotyping that the need to be able to respond quickly in a sudden panic situation is from watching movies. It may be for some. But not me.

(BTW, I've been mugged, and I've been accosted in other ways, it goes down in seconds)

Here's an interesting story told by this Vietnam vet and long term defense instructor. Although I don't agree with his politics (he's done many vids on many subjects), he's clearly experienced and was in a live shooting in Kansas.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijN-axd9hH0

Again, to each his/her own. There is a 99.99999999% chance I will never draw my weapon.

Re: Why no safeties?

85
I'm a DA/SA Decocker guy. I think a lot of people who have never witnessed a gunfight/shooting are thinking in terms of deploying the firearm and dealing with the safety under distress and that's a good thing.

My brain set is that after the shooting/self defense, one is going to want to holster that smoke wagon so as to not be standing there with a pistol when the police show up. I have always imagined myself shaking like a leaf, throwing up, on super red alert and literally distracted to the point of hysteria and then trying to Appendix holster a hot pistol that doesn't have a safety and shooting my dick off of putting one in my femoral artery.

Not cool.

I like having a switch that I can hit, a kill switch if you will, that renders the pistol inert. This gives me much peace. I'm pretty sure I can defend my Life and not forget to turn off the safety. I'm pretty sure in the ensuing mayhem following live action I'm gonna wanna make it all safe before I stuff it back in my pants.

Just sayin',

VooDoo
Tyrants disarm the people they intend to oppress.

I am sworn to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

Re: Why no safeties?

86
VodoundaVinci wrote: Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:17 pm I'm a DA/SA Decocker guy. I think a lot of people who have never witnessed a gunfight/shooting are thinking in terms of deploying the firearm and dealing with the safety under distress and that's a good thing.

My brain set is that after the shooting/self defense, one is going to want to holster that smoke wagon so as to not be standing there with a pistol when the police show up. I have always imagined myself shaking like a leaf, throwing up, on super red alert and literally distracted to the point of hysteria and then trying to Appendix holster a hot pistol that doesn't have a safety and shooting my dick off of putting one in my femoral artery.

Not cool.

I like having a switch that I can hit, a kill switch if you will, that renders the pistol inert. This gives me much peace. I'm pretty sure I can defend my Life and not forget to turn off the safety. I'm pretty sure in the ensuing mayhem following live action I'm gonna wanna make it all safe before I stuff it back in my pants.

Just sayin',

VooDoo
I agree with you. I like the KISS principle when I’m in a situation that calls for quick actions. This is why when I carry it is usually a revolver or my Sig P227.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests