What about another MkII?

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Buck13
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What about another MkII?

#1 Post by Buck13 » Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:38 pm

A couple of weeks ago I *barely* resisted the temptation to buy a stainless 6-7/8" tapered bull barrel MkII that was for sale on the S&W forum. Last weekend I stopped at a shop not close to my home and found a stainless 5-1/2" bull barrel MkII for what I consider a pretty fair price, although not an "OMG, I'd be the world's greatest fool to pass this up!" price. I'll be passing by there again this weekend, so I have one last chance to buy this gun. I already have a blued 10" gun, so this would give me the same collection seen in this post (minus the scope bases).

http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums...8&postcount=12

I suspect the 10" is heavy enough that I would shoot a lighter model better, but I've never had a chance to shoot another MkII.

My ability to judge these guns is not great. The thing looked to be in good shape. Frame/receiver fit was tight. No scratches on sight adjusting screws. Bolt not showing much wear (mine has more streaking from many cycles). Crown without nicks. My MkII's trigger has a huge amount of takeup and what I consider a fairly good break. This one had no takeup, and breaks at least as well as mine (to the poor limits of my memory; might be different in a side-by-side). Lands look bright and smooth. Grooves at muzzle show ladder-like tool marks when illuminated from breech with a small flashlight, which I don't remember seeing in mine (but maybe I just never looked closely enough).

Other than this model not being as pretty, in my opinion, as the tapered 6-7/8", this looks OK. Three questions:

1. Are tool marks in the rifling grooves standard procedure, and I just don't see them on mine since the steel is darker and shows less contrast between the high spots and the dirtier low spots, or is this a variable from barrel to barrel, or is it a sign of low round count that smooths out over use?

2. Is lack of takeup an indication that the trigger has been worked on, or is mine just screwed up somehow?

3. For a mediocre shooter, is the 6-7/8 generally going to turn in any better scores than the 5-1/2, or am I just biased by the looks? My problem with Bullseye shooting is REALLY based on my twitchy muscles (my "essential tremor" is worse than average) and my less-than-consistent trigger technique, not my ability to perceive the sight alignment.

Have at it, enablers.
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Re: What about another MkII?

#2 Post by SailDesign » Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:02 pm

Linkie no work....

On the questions,

1. Neither of mine had/have anything noticable, but at this price level nothing is gong to be mirror-polished.
2. I would suspect the former - if it's a "teardrop" trigger I wold suspect Volquartsen internals.
3. You're biased... Probably. Maybe. Longer sight radius, etc...
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Re: What about another MkII?

#3 Post by SailDesign » Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:04 pm

Just caught your post on the 10" in RFC. Is that the collection about 3 posts above yours? SignalMan's?
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Re: What about another MkII?

#4 Post by Buck13 » Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:09 pm

SailDesign wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:04 pm
Just caught your post on the 10" in RFC. Is that the collection about 3 posts above yours? SignalMan's?
No, it's in a thread titled MkII Drill and Tap

Let's see if this works...
http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/sh ... ?t=1065034
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Re: What about another MkII?

#5 Post by Bacchus » Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:26 pm

First, the easy stuff: Just get it.

Now, the other stuff...

Not sure about the marks, but do MK series pistols ever wear out? The way you describe it, it sounds to be in great shape. May just not have been shot very much.

Would shooting with a shorter barrel be easier/better? There's only one way to find out. I do have this anecdote, however: I shot with MaxWyatt the other day and had the pleasure of shooting his newly-acquired MK II with the 10" bull barrel. I loaded up with some Eley CMP bulk rounds I've been using in the Bullseye League and proceeded to shoot a 4" group at about 60' feet. Without warming up. Or having any kind of crazy Zen focus. I shot my MK III target model (5 1/2" bull barrel) and couldn't do nearly that well with the same level of concentration. The trigger on mine is significantly lighter, too. So at least for me, the sight radius seemed to make a difference, even accounting for the extra pounds on the front end.

That's all very unscientific, of course, and it might just have been the placebo effect of shooting something with a mile-long barrel. ;) Would that extra 1 1/2" of barrel make a difference in grouping size and scores, all things being equal? It might.
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Re: What about another MkII?

#6 Post by SailDesign » Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:31 pm

Buck13 wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:09 pm
SailDesign wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:04 pm
Just caught your post on the 10" in RFC. Is that the collection about 3 posts above yours? SignalMan's?
No, it's in a thread titled MkII Drill and Tap

Let's see if this works...
http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/sh ... ?t=1065034
Post #12
Mo' better. Thanks!
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Re: What about another MkII?

#7 Post by Buck13 » Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:21 pm

Bacchus wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:26 pm
Would shooting with a shorter barrel be easier/better?
I think the 10" may be a bit too heavy for me, especially when shooting one-handed. I don't train the relevant muscles enough. Some SERIOUS shaking sets in sometimes when holding one-handed.

I'm suspicious that the 6-7/8" might be the sweet spot. I just haven't had one of those dangled in front of me at such a good price. I think I saw one not too long ago, but it was priced at least $150 higher, IIRC, than the 5.5 I'm looking at now.
Last edited by Buck13 on Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What about another MkII?

#8 Post by Bacchus » Sat Jun 09, 2018 1:27 am

Buck13 wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:21 pm
Bacchus wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:26 pm
Would shooting with a shorter barrel be easier/better?
I think the 10" maybe a bit too heavy for me, especially when shooting one-handed. I don't train the relevant muscles enough. Some SERIOUS shaking sets in sometimes when holding one-handed.

I'm suspicious that the 6-7/8" might be the sweet spot. I just haven't had one of those dangled in front of me at such a good price. I think I saw one not too long ago, but it was priced at least $150 higher, IIRC, than the 5.5 I'm looking at now.
That 10" bull barrel is heavy; I could feel it shooting two handed...
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Re: What about another MkII?

#9 Post by Buck13 » Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:33 am

I did bring the 5.5" home!

Pics to follow eventually, not that there's anything unusual about it to look at. I'll probably get some aftermarket grips for it eventually, maybe in rosewood. That might make it prettier and more interesting.
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Re: What about another MkII?

#10 Post by Buck13 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:05 am

A photo of the boring side (no ejection port). Another is in the gun porn thread (or will be in five minutes).

Definitely need some grips in something other than basic black.

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Re: What about another MkII?

#11 Post by Bacchus » Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:11 am

Buck13 wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:05 am
A photo of the boring side (no ejection port). Another is in the gun porn thread (or will be in five minutes).

Definitely need some grips in something other than basic black.

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Nice! I have that exact format - 5.5" in stainless - except in MK III. I hope you like it. :) It will be interesting to hear how you find it compared to the others, and if the 5.5" has any positive effects to your shooting.
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Re: What about another MkII?

#12 Post by Buck13 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:16 am

If we shoot the proposed weak-hand/one-hand Bullseye match this summer, it will certainly help with that. I can't really control the 10" consistently one-handed even with the Volthane grip. With the original grip and weak hand that would be a disaster, and I'm not willing to get a left-handed asymmetrical grip that I'll use only once. Shooting rapid DA with my left and K22 would also be pretty questionable.

That was hardly the only reason for getting this one, but it was a small point in its favor.
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Re: What about another MkII?

#13 Post by Bacchus » Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:28 am

Buck13 wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:16 am
If we shoot the proposed weak-hand/one-hand Bullseye match this summer, it will certainly help with that. I can't really control the 10" consistently one-handed even with the Volthane grip. With the original grip and weak hand that would be a disaster, and I'm not willing to get a left-handed asymmetrical grip that I'll use only once. Shooting rapid DA with my left and K22 would also be pretty questionable.

That was hardly the only reason for getting this one, but it was a small point in its favor.
I hope we do the one-handed match. :) The 10" bull barrel certainly gives an advantage with the sight radius, but no way could I do that thing one-handed for 30 shots!
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Re: What about another MkII?

#14 Post by MaxWyatt » Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:30 pm

Bacchus wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:28 am
Buck13 wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:16 am
If we shoot the proposed weak-hand/one-hand Bullseye match this summer, it will certainly help with that. I can't really control the 10" consistently one-handed even with the Volthane grip. With the original grip and weak hand that would be a disaster, and I'm not willing to get a left-handed asymmetrical grip that I'll use only once. Shooting rapid DA with my left and K22 would also be pretty questionable.

That was hardly the only reason for getting this one, but it was a small point in its favor.
I hope we do the one-handed match. :) The 10" bull barrel certainly gives an advantage with the sight radius, but no way could I do that thing one-handed for 30 shots!
I've been eating my Wheaties and working out. I *might* be able to shoot it one handed using my dominant hand. :roflmao: I will need to try that out.

I also suspect that 6 3/4 inch is the sweet spot for these guns. I have thought about getting one of these: https://www.gunbroker.com/item/774934004 But I'd probably just buy another MKII first. That way'd I have two MK II's. Tutus.
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Re: What about another MkII?

#15 Post by Buck13 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:32 pm

MaxWyatt wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:30 pm
I *might* be able to shoot it one handed using my dominant hand. :roflmao:
I found the big asymmetrical grip helped some. The basic grip shape of a Mk pistol doesn't do a lot for me. I like my grips at least a little curvy. The Volthane may even be a little too thicc, though...
I also suspect that 6 3/4 inch is the sweet spot for these guns.
Most likely. This is the one I was tempted by:
http://smith-wessonforum.com/guns-sale- ... duced.html
Isn't that cute?!? It was $390 the last time I looked at it before it sold. Not really sure how I resisted it!
I have thought about getting one of these: https://www.gunbroker.com/item/774934004
Whoa. That's pretty cool! I take it the whole thing is aluminum? If so, I'd object that the receiver might wear out where it mates to the frame, but I've already admitted that I only take my MkIIs apart for cleaning every two years, so that probably wouldn't be a problem.
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Re: What about another MkII?

#16 Post by Bucolic » Fri Jun 15, 2018 6:22 am

I made a proposal for a one-handed Postal Match in the Bullseye thread. Please have a look and post comments. I am thinking a simple 10 yard match with four classes - rimfire and centerfire, strong and weak hands. No discrimination between iron and glass sights.

Match is still in the planning phase so let me know what you think.
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Re: What about another MkII?

#17 Post by MaxWyatt » Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:58 am

I'll shoot that match. Results could be humorous
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Re: What about another MkII?

#18 Post by Bucolic » Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:48 am

Stopped by the LGS yesterday to just see what they had in. They have a really nice, stainless Mk II with the long tapered (7”?) barrel. Two mags, very clean, no obvious evidence of bad behavior. The claim is that it was in trade-in for a slab-sided Mk IV. Stock trigger. Nice aftermarket grips. They are asking $449 out the door. I can probably get it for $400. I would have to sneak it in the house since we are being a bit austere after buying a new car. If I buy it, I would do a Volquartsen trigger job but nothing else.

So a question, I have a heavy barrel Mk III 22/45 that shoots very well. Is the accuracy of the heavy barrel demonstrably better than the tapered? I know that we all believe that they are but has anyone confirmed?

So, enablers, what do you think? I am not in love with this pistol but it did catch my fancy.
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Re: What about another MkII?

#19 Post by Bacchus » Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:06 pm

Bucolic wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 6:22 am
I made a proposal for a one-handed Postal Match in the Bullseye thread. Please have a look and post comments. I am thinking a simple 10 yard match with four classes - rimfire and centerfire, strong and weak hands. No discrimination between iron and glass sights.

Match is still in the planning phase so let me know what you think.
I like. :)
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Re: What about another MkII?

#20 Post by MaxwellG » Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:11 pm

Mk II's are nice...like the stainless steel.
I have one with a 3.5 Bull Barrel which I think helps with accuracy as it's nicely weighted and balanced.
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Re: What about another MkII?

#21 Post by Buck13 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:55 am

Bucolic wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:48 am
So, enablers, what do you think? I am not in love with this pistol but it did catch my fancy.
Is that the same model as the one I linked to reply #15? I'd buy it for $400, for sure!

Sight radius never hurts. :fishing:
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Re: What about another MkII?

#22 Post by Buck13 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:00 am

MaxWyatt wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:58 am
I'll shoot that match. Results could be humorous
Yesterday I shot ten rounds from the "new" MkII wrong-handed at a 4" diamond from 50 feet. All the shots were on the paper, but none were *in* the diamond. :wavecry:

I couldn't decide whether to wink and shoot left-eyed or just shoot dominant eyed. At least I didn't have the violent shaking that would have happened if I'd tried it with the 10" MkII.
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Re: What about another MkII?

#23 Post by Bucolic » Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:31 am

Yes, that’s the one. This one has aftermarket target grips and two mags. My only hesitation, other than the fact that my discretionary funds are now near zero since we bought a new Porsche, is that the other LGS has a CZ 75 compact. I have been jonesing for a P-01 for some time.

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Re: What about another MkII?

#24 Post by Bucolic » Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:51 pm

I just returned from shooting a prototype one-handed match. I posted some details in the Bullseye Match 16 thread. It was good fun. I will announce an official postal match over the weekend.
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