Ruger Old Army

1
Just finished the DROS 10 day "cooling off" period on a Ruger Old Army that I glommed from an auction. It is some kind of commemorative...has crossed swords and the legend "Duty Honor Country" on the cylinder, as well as "US" on the grips and the backstrap. apparently a "1 of 100" from Talo, who makes all Ruger's specials.

It looks unfired and if so, probably because it is some kind of commemorative.

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Re: Ruger Old Army

6
Jeebus! And to think you can pay cash and walk out with a black-powder revolver at the local Ace Hardware in Tucson... seriously, treated just like a BB gun! All wrapped up in shrink plastic as a kit with powder, wad, and shot, hanging on the metal hangers in the tools section.
"It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of non-violence to cover impotence. There is hope for a violent man to become non-violent. There is no such hope for the impotent." -Gandhi

Re: Ruger Old Army

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Are they functionally that different from other cap/ball revolvers? You sure your FFL didn’t just take you for a ride?
"It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of non-violence to cover impotence. There is hope for a violent man to become non-violent. There is no such hope for the impotent." -Gandhi

Re: Ruger Old Army

9
My FFL is a personal friend and does not agree with the California Bureau of Firearms interpretation of the law. The auction house (also located in California) from which I bought the ROA also insisted on an FFL transfer.

My FFL friend tells me that the Cal B of F is much stricter that the ATF and much more aggressive.

Many respected large volume gun sealers in California require that Ruger Old Army revolvers be DROS'd. Lock Stock and Barrel, one of those large dealers, published an explanatory post...
"When we challenged this with our last auditor, this is how it was explained to us... (See responses below). I assure you we are neither lazy nor stupid, we sell thousands of guns every year and comply with state and federal law on all of them. We are dedicated and hard working dealers, known and respected collectors and accomplished competitive shooters here and do whatever we can to support gun ownership and the reasonable application of gun laws. But...

As defined in 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(16) the term “antique firearm” means —


A. any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898; or

Ruger Old Army was not manufactured before 01.01.1899

B. any replica of any firearm described in subparagraph (A)

Ruger Old Army is not a replica of anything made before 01.01.1899

C. any muzzle loading rifle, muzzle loading shotgun, or muzzle loading pistol, which is designed to use black powder, or a black powder substitute, and which cannot use fixed ammunition. For purposes of this subparagraph, the term ‘antique firearm’ shall not include any weapon which incorporates a firearm frame or receiver, any firearm which is converted into a muzzle loading weapon, or any muzzle loading weapon, which can be readily converted to fire fixed ammunition by replacing the barrel, bolt, breechblock, or any combination thereof.

The cylinder is a "breechblock" and conversion cylinders are readily available. Thus, this gun could be "easily converted to fire fixed ammunition".

The big difference between the Old Army and all the Italian imports is that the Italian guns are true reproductions of Antiques and satisfy B from above. The Ruger Old Army does not.

While we do not agree with the law, we do feel the need to comply with it and this was confirmed during our last ATF audit. Someone should challenge this, but we do not have the time nor the money to do so. Until ATF declares otherwise, we need to follow their auditor's and our attorney's orders, which do indeed seem to be supported by written law.

Spencer"
As I say, this interpretation is not without controversy, but it is shared by a number of large gun dealers in California, including the auction house from which I won the ROA.

Re: Ruger Old Army

10
Actually, to me that last part “C” is the clincher. I didn’t realize the ROA can have the cylinder replaced to fire normal cartridges like a Blackhawk or Vaquero. If so then this is clearly not a regular Black Powder revolver.

Fascinating creation. Did some research and found a company making replacement cylinders to convert this revolver to shoot .45LC (and .45 Schofield):

http://www.kirstkonverter.com/ruger-old-army.html

However, the cost of one of those cylinders is equivalent to two Hi-Points at yer localpawn shop. Clearly made for the discriminating individual for whom price is no object...
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Last edited by Bisbee on Thu Jan 31, 2019 2:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of non-violence to cover impotence. There is hope for a violent man to become non-violent. There is no such hope for the impotent." -Gandhi

Re: Ruger Old Army

11
i think the problem here is that the ruger old army is not marketed as a ruger new army, hence the ruger old army is not marketed as a replica of a remington new army. functionally, the two appear identical from here, but california seems (a.) more concerned with appearance than function, and/or (b.) california is just looking for any and all excuses to restrict guns, any guns.

all of the black powder revolver replicas, pietta, armi sport, armi san marco, whathaveyou, colt, remington can accept replacement conversion cylinders. it's just easier with the remington pattern guns.
Last edited by lurker on Thu Jan 31, 2019 2:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
i'm retired. what's your excuse?

Re: Ruger Old Army

12
I wasn’t aware that with other black powder revolvers you could also simply replace the cylinders to fire regular centerfire cartridges. Shows my ignorance about BP guns.
"It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of non-violence to cover impotence. There is hope for a violent man to become non-violent. There is no such hope for the impotent." -Gandhi

Re: Ruger Old Army

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there may be other modification to the remington design that i'm not aware of, i've never had a pair side by side to compare. but in terms of function, they're both cap and ball revolvers. you probably wouldn't want to hold up a 7/11 with one, but you could try. they'll kill you just as dead as a modern 6-shot, revolver or semi.
i'm retired. what's your excuse?

Re: Ruger Old Army

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It has assault weapon style sights on it.

Bill Ruger had a real thing for Remington C&B revolvers and envisioned this as how they would have evolved if Rem kept making them. As long as he was still running the show they kept making them.

Once he was out of the picture it was dropped. If you're not worried about collectors value send it off to Bowen and have him turn it into a 50 cal thumper.

Re: Ruger Old Army

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there was a movie, "pale rider" i think, in which clint eastwood's character with a remington new army went against another guy with a colt army or navy. it takes far less time to swap the cylinder on the rem than to reload the colt (heaven forbid you should try to swap on the colt, you end up with the gun in about 4 pieces. oh, and a screwdriver, you need a screwdriver), but neither is faster than reloading a modern revolver.
i'm retired. what's your excuse?

Re: Ruger Old Army

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lurker wrote: Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:15 pm there was a movie, "pale rider" i think, in which clint eastwood's character with a remington new army went against another guy with a colt army or navy. it takes far less time to swap the cylinder on the rem than to reload the colt (heaven forbid you should try to swap on the colt, you end up with the gun in about 4 pieces. oh, and a screwdriver, you need a screwdriver), but neither is faster than reloading a modern revolver.
Probably cost a lot of money to have more than one of those cylinders. If your going to reload one you have to take it out of the frame and then take the cylinder apart empty it recharge then put it back in. I would just reload it with powder and ball, don't have to take it apart for that.

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