December/January Postal Match

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December/January Postal Match

#1 Post by mark » Tue Dec 08, 2009 1:25 pm

UPDATE Apparently, all of these "holidays" are interfering with your priority of shooting things. So, in fairness, the deadline has been extended until January 20th. Have fun saving the world!

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Time to mix things up.

I was thinking about why we have these postal matches: to promote increased familiarity and proficiency with your firearm. So.... that made me think about when you need to be familiar and proficient - of course, the zombie attack scenario! I then Googled "zombie postal match". Turns out that two brothers who do not live in the same area have made their own postal match series using zombie targets:

http://www.moral-flexibility.net/archiv ... tal-match/

Each one comes with its own story line about why they need to be shooting zombies. The last one was in 2007, so its not active but it did spark some neurons in my head.

So, here we go with our simpler and less creative version:

Ours is a SHTF scenario of zombies attacking. 5 zombies are coming up your driveway and you are sitting in the garage cleaning your firearms (what luck!). You need to kill the 5 zombies. You will need a range that is at least 25 yards - most around here seem to be that long, and 5 printed targets.

You can use any weapon you like - as long as you are using iron sights - no scopes, red dots, etc. I was going to allow shotguns, but that complicated the match design a bit, so not this time - sorry.

Its going to get a wee bit complicated but here are the basics.

1. Start cold - no practice before hand. - you didn't know they were coming.
2. Ammo
Zombies are fairly slow so you have 5 'loads' to kill all 5 zombies. A 'load', for these purposes, will consist of one hypothetical loaded magazine, cylinder, tube or whatever. To account for different capacities and reloading times the following shall be in effect:

For pistols a load will be 6 rounds. (a total of 30 rounds for the match)
For rifles a load will be 3 rounds. (total of 15)
For handgun caliber rifles (.22, .9mm, .357, etc) a load will be 4 rounds. (a total of 20 rounds for the match)

Whatever weapon you choose you will have 5 'loads' at your disposal.

3. Kills

Your job, of course, is to kill all the zombies. Killing is defined as follows:

Rifles - one shot within the middle ring will do it (NOT the 'bullseye' or 'center' ring - the middle ring will suffice)- or 3 shots within the outer ring.
Handgun Caliber rifles - 2 shots in the middle ring - or 7 in the outer ring.

pistols:
.357, .40S&W, .45ACP or any round larger than .380 - 2 shots within the middle ring - or 6 shots within the outer ring.
Any other round smaller round - .32, .22, etc. - 3 shots within the middle rings - or 8 shots within the outer ring.

Sorry, turns out that zombies are tougher than most movies make them out to be.

4. Distance
It would probably be easier to hit the zombies at first since they are farther and less of a threat than when they get closer. As they close in on you, shooting will be more difficult. To simulate this difficulty, we are reversing the distance. The first zombie will be shot at 5 yards and we will move targets back from there.

Start with a target up at 5 yards. Kill it. Use as much ammo as you have to to kill it.

However! you must move targets back 5 yards every time you kill a zombie OR every time you run through a 'load'.

So, if you are shooting a .357 this could be a hypothetical match:

Target at 5 yards - 3 shots results in a kill - move new target back.
Target at 10 yards - 3 more shots and you have not killed the target. New load, move target back.
Target at 15 yards - 6 shots results in a kill - and a new load - move new target back.
Target at 20 yards - 5 shots results in a kill - move new target back
Target at 25 yards - 10 shots results in a kill (25 yards is the max distance)

You had 30 rounds, you used 28. You have 2 left over.

5. Timing

Each load must be fired at a 'rapid fire' pace. Leave no more than 2 seconds between shots (or whatever your range might require).

6. Scoring

Everyone starts out with 100 points.
Subtract 20 points for every zombie that you do not kill after using all available rounds.
Add 5 points for every pistol round that you did not use.
Add 10 points for every rifle round (even the handgun caliber rifles) that you did not use.

Our .357 above had 2 rounds left over and killed all zombies for a total score of 110.

Note that if a pistol shoots 5 zombies with 10 rounds they will have 20 rounds left over. 20x5 = 100 for a total score of 200.

If a rifle shoots 5 zombies with 5 rounds they will have 10 rounds left over. 10x10 = 100 for a total score of 200.

If a handgun caliber rifle shoots 5 zombies with 10 rounds they will also have 10 left over. 10x10=100 for a total of 200.

The max score for all of them is 200 points.



6. Mixing things up

Just to make things complicated, you can mix and match weapons. If you want to use your pistol for close up shots and your rifle for distant shots, no problem (or maybe the reverse is a better strategy, I don't know). However, there are rules:
1. You can only change weapons when you are changing 'loads'. So, for example, after you fire your first 6 pistol shots (using one 'load') you can start using your rifle.
2. If you change weapons mid target you will not get any bonus for shots already fired. In other words, you can't combine shot types for a kill. You can't have one pistol round within the middle rings and one rifle round within the outer ring. You must completely score a kill with any one round.
3. For scoring, leftover rounds are counted as whatever type of weapon you killed the last zombie with

In other words.... lets say you shoot the following:
Target 1 and Target 2 are killed with load#1 on a pistol.
Target 3 and 4 are killed with loads#2 and #3 of a rifle.
Target 5 is killed with 2 rifle shots of load #4.

So, you have used a total of 3 'loads' and 2 shots of load #4. So, your left over ammo is

1 rifle round out of load #4 and load #5 (which we will count as a rifle load since that is the last thing you were firing). So, you have a total of 4 rounds left over and get (4x12.5)+100 points.

There is definitely a trade off between more rounds and more accuracy. The choice is yours. Consider the point value of each before switching weapons.

If this doesn't make any sense you can PM me for clarification - or just use one weapon :)

--------------

You can download the target here: http://www.theliberalgunclub.com/postal ... target.pdf

If your range doesn't let you shoot at targets with zombies or zombie-like images on them, here is a zombie-less target. Its the exact some one without the rings: http://www.theliberalgunclub.com/postal ... zombie.pdf

It is a modified version of the one that the guys on moral-flexibility.net used. Ignore the scoring numbers at the bottom of the sheet.

--------------

Scores must be submitted by December 20th.

Submit scores here: http://spreadsheets.google.com/embedded ... 21hMS1DRkE

Prizes:
First prize will be a $35 gift certificate to Target or Amazon.com (just in time for Christmas) and an LGC bumper sticker.


--------------

Bonus:

If you beat Paladin I will throw in an LGC t-shirt.
If you two or more LGC members shoot this together, each gets a 5 point bonus and a free bumper sticker!


--------------

Confused? Just ask - I will try to clarify.

Good luck and have fun!


---------------------

UPDATED - updated the scoring to reflect the addition of handgun caliber rifles. Please read over and make sure that it makes sense and that you understand before going off to the range.
"The waves which dash on the shore are, one by one, broken; but yet the ocean conquers nevertheless."
- Lord Byron

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Re: December Postal Match

#2 Post by Paladin » Tue Dec 08, 2009 1:49 pm

Time to break in the Henry 22
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Re: December Postal Match

#3 Post by Inquisitor » Tue Dec 08, 2009 2:50 pm

Couple things:

- I still think I am not allowed to have human analogues targets at the range, is there a version of this target with JUST the scoring rings?

- Also, my range is fixed at 25 yards outside, anything close that than I need to move to the indoor range and change ammo to lead only, and I cannot move the target close than 10 yds. Is it legal to scale a target larger and put it out further? In order to do this I would have to switch ranges and possibly venues entirely between targets :)

- Jeepers, thats a small scoring ring for 25yards, I can put it on the paper without question, but that's itty bitty for me, and i have no real rifles other than the unsighted marlin :)

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Re: December Postal Match

#4 Post by mark » Tue Dec 08, 2009 3:48 pm

Inquisitor wrote:Couple things:

- I still think I am not allowed to have human analogues targets at the range, is there a version of this target with JUST the scoring rings?
its a ZOMBIE...... tell them you are practicing for the upcoming Armageddon, they will understand.

(yes, I have just the ring, send me an email and I will send it to you)
Inquisitor wrote: - Also, my range is fixed at 25 yards outside, anything close that than I need to move to the indoor range and change ammo to lead only, and I cannot move the target close than 10 yds. Is it legal to scale a target larger and put it out further? In order to do this I would have to switch ranges and possibly venues entirely between targets :)
Wow, what a pain. Um.... uh.... I don't know, let me think. You guys always remind me how lucky I am as a gun owner to live where I do. Of course, its unlucky in other ways.

So, your 10 yard indoor range doesn't go out to 25 yards? I guess they are trying to prevent people from shooting each other? Maybe from bouncing back bullets? I will admit to only going to a handful of indoor ranges but all except one went from 5yds to 25yds. Sounds like you need to move :)

I keed I keed..... let me think.
Inquisitor wrote: - Jeepers, thats a small scoring ring for 25yards, I can put it on the paper without question, but that's itty bitty for me, and i have no real rifles other than the unsighted marlin :)
Well, I would suggest sighting in your Marlin before you head to the range. :) I know its a tiny scoring ring, its meant to be hard. I suspect many people will not kill all 5 zombies if they only bring a pistol.

Sorry. :(
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Re: December Postal Match

#5 Post by mark » Tue Dec 08, 2009 4:11 pm

Inquisitor wrote: - Jeepers, thats a small scoring ring for 25yards, I can put it on the paper without question, but that's itty bitty for me, and i have no real rifles other than the unsighted marlin :)

Also... remember that to kill a Zombie you must destroy its brain. That target is approximately brain sized. ha.... zombie postal shoots are fun :)
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Re: December Postal Match

#6 Post by Inquisitor » Tue Dec 08, 2009 6:27 pm

Indoor range only goes to 50 feet. And they don't want nearer thatn 10 yards. Its restrictive, but we've talked abotu my range being bleh before :)

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Re: December Postal Match

#7 Post by Grove » Fri Dec 18, 2009 3:22 pm

:( I made a mess of my scoring. My own fault. I was thinking middle ring was the bullseye, so shot more than I had to! It was a fun match - next time I'll have to read the directions more closely! Also, as I was doing this out in my yard, I had to walk down to the target after each shot to see where I hit. I did try to adhere to the 2 second-rule as best I could, however.

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Re: December Postal Match

#8 Post by Grove » Wed Dec 23, 2009 9:55 am

:?: Since the Dec. match has been extended, can I have a "do-over"? I doubt I can duplicate my decent shooting , but now that I've read and re-read the rules, I think I know what I'm supposed to do now as far as scoring. On my 1st attempt when you said middle ring, I was thinking you meant the bullseye! (you know... "middle","center".. 6 of 1,...) I shot a lot more than I had to to get a kill, but the ones I killed stayed dead! I defer to the Board, but a new set of targets would be easier to explain than the ones I have now, should I have to submit them.

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Re: December Postal Match

#9 Post by mark » Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:26 am

Grove wrote::?: Since the Dec. match has been extended, can I have a "do-over"? I doubt I can duplicate my decent shooting , but now that I've read and re-read the rules, I think I know what I'm supposed to do now as far as scoring. On my 1st attempt when you said middle ring, I was thinking you meant the bullseye! (you know... "middle","center".. 6 of 1,...) I shot a lot more than I had to to get a kill, but the ones I killed stayed dead! I defer to the Board, but a new set of targets would be easier to explain than the ones I have now, should I have to submit them.

Go for it. I can see the confusion - I should change the rules to make certain that is clear.

I think its a fun match (although admittedly a bit confusing at first read) but its just a hectic time of year to get people out to the range.

Have fun with your Mulligan. :)
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Re: December Postal Match

#10 Post by mark » Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:15 pm

Bump as a reminder. Its a fun shoot - I did it for the fun of it (its hard to award prizes to yourself).
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Re: December Postal Match

#11 Post by Paladin » Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:17 pm

mark wrote:Bump as a reminder. Its a fun shoot - I did it for the fun of it (its hard to award prizes to yourself).

I've got to find the time to do this.

My Henry is not zeroed so it may be an awful shoot.
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Re: December Postal Match

#12 Post by mark » Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:18 pm

Paladin wrote:
mark wrote:Bump as a reminder. Its a fun shoot - I did it for the fun of it (its hard to award prizes to yourself).

I've got to find the time to do this.

My Henry is not zeroed so it may be an awful shoot.
Unfortunately, the zombie attack will happen even if you don't zero in your rifle. Best do it now rather than when its too late. Zombies.

Image
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Re: December/January Postal Match

#13 Post by mark » Tue Jan 05, 2010 9:04 pm

OK, I just noticed that somehow all of the website links for the things like targets and submitting your scores have been removed. I was wondering why no one was submitting.

So, now the post has been updated with actual links. Also, added a link to a zombie-less target for those ranges that don't let you shoot at a zombie likeness.
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Re: December/January Postal Match

#14 Post by Paladin » Sat Jan 16, 2010 5:07 pm

Someone is going to get the bonus prize. This penalized you for good shooting. I killed the five yard zombie in two shots and then only had two shots to kill the ten yard target which I could not do killed it at fifteen and twenty and twenty five but no ten now to figure out scoring

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Re: December/January Postal Match

#15 Post by Grove » Tue Jan 19, 2010 9:33 am

O.K., my do-over is submitted. I mixed it up this time, using my 1940's S&W Victory revolver( in .38 S&W,) for the 1st zombie, and my trusty Remington Nylon 66 for the rest. Had a problem at 15 yds. - I think the sun was in my eyes ;). Anyways... I think I got the scoring correct this time, although it all hinges on my 1 leftover .38 translating into an extra .22 round. For what appeared to be a fairly straight-forward set of rules, I've had a hell of a time figuring it out! :oops:

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Re: December/January Postal Match

#16 Post by mark » Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:33 am

Grove wrote:O.K., my do-over is submitted. I mixed it up this time, using my 1940's S&W Victory revolver( in .38 S&W,) for the 1st zombie, and my trusty Remington Nylon 66 for the rest. Had a problem at 15 yds. - I think the sun was in my eyes ;). Anyways... I think I got the scoring correct this time, although it all hinges on my 1 leftover .38 translating into an extra .22 round. For what appeared to be a fairly straight-forward set of rules, I've had a hell of a time figuring it out! :oops:
It was probably more complicated than needed..... the intent was to mix it up and add some 'strategy'..... oh well, win some, lose some. :)
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Re: December/January Postal Match

#17 Post by mark » Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:42 am

Paladin wrote:Someone is going to get the bonus prize. This penalized you for good shooting. I killed the five yard zombie in two shots and then only had two shots to kill the ten yard target which I could not do killed it at fifteen and twenty and twenty five but no ten now to figure out scoring
Wait, where was the good shooting? :mrgreen: Mostly you got penalized for trying to kill zombies with a .22lr. :)

I do see what you are saying though - because you had to move it at the end of the load you sort of got hosed. Hmmm...... like I said 'win some, lose some' ... but I will work on refining this one. Perhaps doing away with the 'load' concept would simplify it and not penalize in situations like you had. In my defense, my thought was that if you had to reload during an actual zombie invasion, it would let them get closer and increase the difficulty level. I will rework it - suggestions from those that shot it are welcome. Perhaps I will redo it for next Halloween.
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Re: December/January Postal Match

#18 Post by Grove » Tue Jan 19, 2010 11:09 am

mark wrote:
Grove wrote:O.K., my do-over is submitted. I mixed it up this time, using my 1940's S&W Victory revolver( in .38 S&W,) for the 1st zombie, and my trusty Remington Nylon 66 for the rest. Had a problem at 15 yds. - I think the sun was in my eyes ;). Anyways... I think I got the scoring correct this time, although it all hinges on my 1 leftover .38 translating into an extra .22 round. For what appeared to be a fairly straight-forward set of rules, I've had a hell of a time figuring it out! :oops:
It was probably more complicated than needed..... the intent was to mix it up and add some 'strategy'..... oh well, win some, lose some. :)
Who's got time for 'strategy' with five Zombies comin' at ya???? :lol:

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Re: December/January Postal Match

#19 Post by Paladin » Tue Jan 19, 2010 11:42 am

mark wrote:
Paladin wrote:Someone is going to get the bonus prize. This penalized you for good shooting. I killed the five yard zombie in two shots and then only had two shots to kill the ten yard target which I could not do killed it at fifteen and twenty and twenty five but no ten now to figure out scoring
Wait, where was the good shooting? :mrgreen: Mostly you got penalized for trying to kill zombies with a .22lr. :)

I do see what you are saying though - because you had to move it at the end of the load you sort of got hosed. Hmmm...... like I said 'win some, lose some' ... but I will work on refining this one. Perhaps doing away with the 'load' concept would simplify it and not penalize in situations like you had. In my defense, my thought was that if you had to reload during an actual zombie invasion, it would let them get closer and increase the difficulty level. I will rework it - suggestions from those that shot it are welcome. Perhaps I will redo it for next Halloween.

I am not going zombie hunting without a scope or at least a red dot. I'm not good enough yet to take it on with my .357 and I love the kimber the crappy ball ammo for it was not going to do it at 25 yards. Everything else I have has some type of sighting aide on it.
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Re: December/January Postal Match

#20 Post by mark » Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:52 pm

Grove wrote:
mark wrote:
Grove wrote:O.K., my do-over is submitted. I mixed it up this time, using my 1940's S&W Victory revolver( in .38 S&W,) for the 1st zombie, and my trusty Remington Nylon 66 for the rest. Had a problem at 15 yds. - I think the sun was in my eyes ;). Anyways... I think I got the scoring correct this time, although it all hinges on my 1 leftover .38 translating into an extra .22 round. For what appeared to be a fairly straight-forward set of rules, I've had a hell of a time figuring it out! :oops:
It was probably more complicated than needed..... the intent was to mix it up and add some 'strategy'..... oh well, win some, lose some. :)
Who's got time for 'strategy' with five Zombies comin' at ya???? :lol:
Touche. Oh well...at least it got you guys out shooting...and shooting in ways you might not do normally. Plus I get to mention zombies a lot.
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Re: December/January Postal Match

#21 Post by mark » Fri Jan 22, 2010 10:04 pm

Postal match is over - we have a winner. It isn't Paladin. I will post details later :)

I love cliff hangers.
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Re: December/January Postal Match

#22 Post by Paladin » Sat Jan 23, 2010 8:42 am

It gave you great joy to type that didn't it?

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Re: December/January Postal Match

#23 Post by mark » Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:56 pm

Paladin wrote:It gave you great joy to type that didn't it?
Indeed. :)
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Re: December/January Postal Match

#24 Post by mark » Sun Feb 07, 2010 2:48 am

So..... first, I will admit that the rules need some tweaking. Nevertheless, I shot it and thought it was a fun shoot.

Having said that, we have a winner. There were only two entries this time, so I think the complexity scared a lot of you away that have entered before.

But Paladin and Grove both submitted scores - and it turned out to be a close competition. Paladin shot a Henry lever action .22l and Grove shot a .22lr Remington Nylon 66 and a 1940's S&W Victory revolver in .38 S&W. Lets see how it breaks down:

.................Paladin...................Grove
Zombie1......2 shot kill...............5 shot kill w revolver ----- both kills were at 5 yards
Zombie2......6 shot kill @15yrd......2 shot kill @ 10 yards ----- Paladin misses the kill at 10 yards!
Zombie3......4 shot kill @20yrd......7 shot kill @ 20 yards ----- Grove misses the kill at 15 yards!
Zombie4......4 shot kill @25yrd......2 shot kill @ 20 yards ----- I think Grove should have been at 25yrds here??
Zombie5......no kill!...................5 shot kill @ 25 yards ----- Paladin stops shooting!!!

Its obvious that the rules were not clear here. In my mind, after Paladin kills Zombie4 at 25 yards, he should have then put up Zombie5 at 25 yards to try to kill it in the remaining 4 shots. Instead, he figured he reached max distance so he was done. As it turns out, Paladin's performance with those 4 rounds would have decided this match. Since the clarity of the instructions was my fault, and since both Paladin and Grove got out and actually shot the match - and were very close - Both will get a bumper sticker and a $20 gift certificate to Amazon, Target or any other vender you prefer. Just send me an email letting me know and we will get your stuff to you asap.
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