Richard Spencer, Alt-Right Provocateur Kicked Off Facebook

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harriss
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Richard Spencer, Alt-Right Provocateur Kicked Off Facebook

#1 Post by harriss » Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:31 pm

Alt-right and neo-Nazi provocateur Richard Spencer had his Facebook account suspended and his Facebook page taken down.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/richard-sp ... s-removed/
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Re: Richard Spencer, Alt-Right Provocateur Kicked Off Facebook

#2 Post by Eris » Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:39 pm

I'm not sure how I feel about this. On the one hand, if anyone deserves it, he does, but on the other hand I don't like corporations being arbiters of who is and isn't allowed to have public speech. When is Facebook going to kick off gun rights groups, including the LGC?


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Last edited by Eris on Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Richard Spencer, Alt-Right Provocateur Kicked Off Facebook

#3 Post by Mason » Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:41 pm

Facebook isn't public. You don't pay for it - they can do whatever they want.
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Re: Richard Spencer, Alt-Right Provocateur Kicked Off Facebook

#4 Post by Eris » Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:43 pm

Mason wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:41 pm
Facebook isn't public. You don't pay for it - they can do whatever they want.
True, but at the same time they have almost become a de facto public utility and might deserve to be regulated as such. After all, an electric company is often a private company too, but we'd raise holy hell if one started deciding that some people weren't allowed to have electricity.
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Re: Richard Spencer, Alt-Right Provocateur Kicked Off Facebook

#5 Post by YankeeTarheel » Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:53 pm

Actually, FB is more like the cable TV company than electricity, except that as more cable companies provide internet services, they are more like the power companies.
Twitter and FB both shut down violence-advocating persons. Spencer walks the line because while not overtly advocating violence, he covertly and subliminally does. Of course, so does Trump but as President, he's harder to stop.
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Re: Richard Spencer, Alt-Right Provocateur Kicked Off Facebook

#6 Post by featureless » Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:11 pm

Eris wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:39 pm
I'm not sure how I feel about this. On the one hand, if anyone deserves it, he does, but on the other hand I don't like corporations being arbiters of who is and isn't allowed to have public speech. When is Facebook going to kick off gun rights groups, including the LGC?


"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" - Evelyn Beatrice Hall (not Voltaire)
Hate speech is not free speech. We must not forget that those advocating violence and murder of a group of persons are not engaging in protected free speech. Once can spout as much racism as one has the ignorance for and we'll all defend their right. Once you start demonstrating ways of running those people over, you've crossed the line.

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Re: Richard Spencer, Alt-Right Provocateur Kicked Off Facebook

#7 Post by Eris » Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:14 pm

featureless wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:11 pm
Eris wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:39 pm
I'm not sure how I feel about this. On the one hand, if anyone deserves it, he does, but on the other hand I don't like corporations being arbiters of who is and isn't allowed to have public speech. When is Facebook going to kick off gun rights groups, including the LGC?


"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" - Evelyn Beatrice Hall (not Voltaire)
Hate speech is not free speech. We must not forget that those advocating violence and murder of a group of persons are not engaging in protected free speech. Once can spout as much racism as one has the ignorance for and we'll all defend their right. Once you start demonstrating ways of running those people over, you've crossed the line.
Advocating violence is one thing, but "hate speech" is too often defined by the listener. There's a Hell of a lot of people in this country today who think that advocating gun rights is "hate speech" and I don't want to to give those people any foot in the door.
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Re: Richard Spencer, Alt-Right Provocateur Kicked Off Facebook

#8 Post by featureless » Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:46 pm

Eris wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:14 pm
featureless wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:11 pm
Eris wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:39 pm
I'm not sure how I feel about this. On the one hand, if anyone deserves it, he does, but on the other hand I don't like corporations being arbiters of who is and isn't allowed to have public speech. When is Facebook going to kick off gun rights groups, including the LGC?


"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" - Evelyn Beatrice Hall (not Voltaire)
Hate speech is not free speech. We must not forget that those advocating violence and murder of a group of persons are not engaging in protected free speech. Once can spout as much racism as one has the ignorance for and we'll all defend their right. Once you start demonstrating ways of running those people over, you've crossed the line.
Advocating violence is one thing, but "hate speech" is too often defined by the listener. There's a Hell of a lot of people in this country today who think that advocating gun rights is "hate speech" and I don't want to to give those people any foot in the door.
I don't disagree with you and the line is fuzzy and my post was specifically toward Spencer, no other.

Spencer and crew did advocate for running people over at their rallies (Charlottesville). That kind of shit is not free speech. I have a personal problem with those that advocate the practice of genocide and parade it about under the protection of free speech (therefor, have zippo sympathy for Spencer being banned by Faceplant). :beer2:

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Re: Richard Spencer, Alt-Right Provocateur Kicked Off Facebook

#9 Post by SpaceRanger42 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:16 pm

I am surprised that anyone lets that guy speak anywhere, ever. Talk about a case of imminent lawless action, if not from his disciples then from folks (like me) who want to punch nutzies.
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Re: Richard Spencer, Alt-Right Provocateur Kicked Off Facebook

#10 Post by YankeeTarheel » Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:35 pm

People who advocate for me and my family to be gassed to death, like Andrew Anglin ("of course I want to gas Kikes"), and people who enable and empower them, like Spencer, don't have "Freedom of Speech" for that. It's long been a point of law in "free" nations that advocating for someone's violent death, inciting violence, riots, or threatening someone's life is NOT protected speech or expression, and never has been in the United States or most of Western Europe.
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Re: Richard Spencer, Alt-Right Provocateur Kicked Off Facebook

#11 Post by DougMasters » Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:36 pm

featureless wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:11 pm
Eris wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:39 pm
I'm not sure how I feel about this. On the one hand, if anyone deserves it, he does, but on the other hand I don't like corporations being arbiters of who is and isn't allowed to have public speech. When is Facebook going to kick off gun rights groups, including the LGC?


"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" - Evelyn Beatrice Hall (not Voltaire)
Hate speech is not free speech. We must not forget that those advocating violence and murder of a group of persons are not engaging in protected free speech. Once can spout as much racism as one has the ignorance for and we'll all defend their right. Once you start demonstrating ways of running those people over, you've crossed the line.
IMHO hate speech is absolutely free speech. Not that FB is bound by free speech. I don't think hate speech is defined by preaching violence though. To me its just having a hateful opinion and sharing why you feel sich and such group is worthy of hate.

I think " this group is so bad we need to kill them, I encourage you all to kill them" goes beyond hate speech.

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Re: Richard Spencer, Alt-Right Provocateur Kicked Off Facebook

#12 Post by YankeeTarheel » Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:36 pm

Hate speech is NOT the same as violent speech. The former is, and should be protected, the latter, not at all.
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Re: Richard Spencer, Alt-Right Provocateur Kicked Off Facebook

#13 Post by ErikO » Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:47 pm

#NoPlatform ;)
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Re: Richard Spencer, Alt-Right Provocateur Kicked Off Facebook

#14 Post by ErikO » Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:48 pm

has he been jailed or fined by the State for anything he has ever said? Then his First Amendment is intact.
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Re: Richard Spencer, Alt-Right Provocateur Kicked Off Facebook

#15 Post by YankeeTarheel » Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:52 pm

ErikO wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:48 pm
has he been jailed or fined by the State for anything he has ever said? Then his First Amendment is intact.
Oh, c'mon! Andrew Anglin hasn't been jailed but has written he wants to murder Jews, just for being Jews. That's NOT protected speech.
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Re: Richard Spencer, Alt-Right Provocateur Kicked Off Facebook

#16 Post by DougMasters » Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:09 pm

I do wonder where the line is, or even where I myself would consider where the line is.

On one hand, I understand that wishing someone was dead or even wishing you yourself could kill someone, isn't advocating for their harm. On the other hand, a tweak in the tone that turns into a veiled threat, that isn't very subtle.

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Re: Richard Spencer, Alt-Right Provocateur Kicked Off Facebook

#17 Post by 7N6Wolf » Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:30 pm

YankeeTarheel wrote:
ErikO wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:48 pm
has he been jailed or fined by the State for anything he has ever said? Then his First Amendment is intact.
Oh, c'mon! Andrew Anglin hasn't been jailed but has written he wants to murder Jews, just for being Jews. That's NOT protected speech.
The poltroon has also been in hiding ever since the SPLC filed a lawsuit against him for having his followers harass a Jewish woman.

I don’t believe in absolute freedom of speech: there should be NO platform for fascists!


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Re: Richard Spencer, Alt-Right Provocateur Kicked Off Facebook

#18 Post by ErikO » Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:28 am

YankeeTarheel wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:52 pm
ErikO wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:48 pm
has he been jailed or fined by the State for anything he has ever said? Then his First Amendment is intact.
Oh, c'mon! Andrew Anglin hasn't been jailed but has written he wants to murder Jews, just for being Jews. That's NOT protected speech.
And he's living in fear these days, so there's that.
In a bacon, egg and cheese sandwich the chicken and cow are involved while the pig is committed.

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Re: Richard Spencer, Alt-Right Provocateur Kicked Off Facebook

#19 Post by rolandson » Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:17 am

Eris wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:39 pm
I'm not sure how I feel about this. On the one hand, if anyone deserves it, he does, but on the other hand I don't like corporations being arbiters of who is and isn't allowed to have public speech. When is Facebook going to kick off gun rights groups, including the LGC?


"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" - Evelyn Beatrice Hall (not Voltaire)
One is entitled, within certain limits, to "public speech" as you refer to it, but no private organization is required to provide a platform for it.

It's called TOS (terms of service); run afoul of them, even a little bit, and at the soul discretion of the provider, you can be made to disappear, without warning or explanation.
A user's "rights" are what the forum's owners say they are. FB, and any other social media entity, is free to be as arbitrary and capricious in applying their terms as they wish. One wants to play in someone else's sandbox, one must play by their rules.

The user enjoys a single remedy... leave.
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Re: Richard Spencer, Alt-Right Provocateur Kicked Off Facebook

#20 Post by YankeeTarheel » Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:15 am

ErikO wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:28 am
YankeeTarheel wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:52 pm
ErikO wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:48 pm
has he been jailed or fined by the State for anything he has ever said? Then his First Amendment is intact.
Oh, c'mon! Andrew Anglin hasn't been jailed but has written he wants to murder Jews, just for being Jews. That's NOT protected speech.
And he's living in fear these days, so there's that.
As someone who is willing to incite others to murder and terrorism, I have no problem with the "divine justice" that he, himself, is now living in fear. It's better than he deserves.
"Fascism comes along when the rich people get the generals to help them stay in control." -- Woody Guthrie
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Re: Richard Spencer, Alt-Right Provocateur Kicked Off Facebook

#21 Post by ErikO » Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:25 am

YankeeTarheel wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:15 am
ErikO wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:28 am
YankeeTarheel wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:52 pm
ErikO wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:48 pm
has he been jailed or fined by the State for anything he has ever said? Then his First Amendment is intact.
Oh, c'mon! Andrew Anglin hasn't been jailed but has written he wants to murder Jews, just for being Jews. That's NOT protected speech.
And he's living in fear these days, so there's that.
As someone who is willing to incite others to murder and terrorism, I have no problem with the "divine justice" that he, himself, is now living in fear. It's better than he deserves.
Yep, I concur.
In a bacon, egg and cheese sandwich the chicken and cow are involved while the pig is committed.

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