Initiative to breakup CA will likely be on the ballot

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YankeeTarheel
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Re: Initiative to breakup CA will likely be on the ballot

#26 Post by YankeeTarheel » Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:57 am

An effort to break up California spearheaded by a billionaire venture capitalist? Just what does HE think he has to gain by it? Previous attempts to break up California and Colorado were ALL driven by right-wing reactionaries to add Republican votes to the Senate. Just like others seek repeal of the 17th Amendment because there are more GOP controlled state legislatures than there are GOP senators percentage-wise.

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Re: Initiative to breakup CA will likely be on the ballot

#27 Post by highdesert » Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:16 am

The initiative to split CA into three states qualified for the November 6th ballot per CA SOS.
http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-pol- ... story.html
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Re: Initiative to breakup CA will likely be on the ballot

#28 Post by DougMasters » Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:48 am

Im kinda torn on things like this.

If that's how people wanna live, then I don't really have a genuine issue with it. And since I don't live in CA its hard for me to have a true opinion on they what's and why's.

I do know that there has to be some bigbpicture hemming and hawing over the practicalities, and ultimately uncle sam has to say yes. So I suppose as long as it doesn't hurt the USA as a whole, I kinda don't care.

:: edit ::

I shouldn't say I don't care. I more mean I wouldn't care to the point of standing against the will of those people to love that way so long as it doesn't hurt the nation as a whole.

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Re: Initiative to breakup CA will likely be on the ballot

#29 Post by CDFingers » Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:03 pm

Truth be told, the interests of citizens in the proposed northern section are not currently represented very well by numbers, in Sacramento. That's an argument in favor of some kind of segmentation into two or three states.

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Re: Initiative to breakup CA will likely be on the ballot

#30 Post by senorgrand » Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:13 pm

My prediction is that there will be something in this initiative for every division to dislike and that it will go down to defeat easily.

If turnout runs high, SoCal voters will have a big say in how this succeeds or fails. Can't see them voting for it.

I've been a part of a handful of ballot measures brought by billionaires who thought they were smarter than California voters. Each one ended in failure.
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Re: Initiative to breakup CA will likely be on the ballot

#31 Post by YankeeTarheel » Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:45 pm

I'm telling you, it's nothing but an attempt to add 2-4 Republican Senators to the Senate as a fire wall. Plus, it adds to Republican states to the mix to amend the Constitution. Amendments will take 39 states, where now they take 38...2 more GOP states makes it easier.

Now match that up with the thread on the Oligarchs using late economist James Buchanan's plan to CHANGE THE CONSTITUTION to benefit and empower billionaires at the expense of the people and it seems OBVIOUS what this is all about, chipping away at the wall against oligarchy and tyranny.
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Re: Initiative to breakup CA will likely be on the ballot

#32 Post by TrueTexan » Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:10 pm

Maybe we should allow the red parts of California to split off, but only to give the land back to Mexico.

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Re: Initiative to breakup CA will likely be on the ballot

#33 Post by featureless » Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:25 pm

CDFingers wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:03 pm
Truth be told, the interests of citizens in the proposed northern section are not currently represented very well by numbers, in Sacramento. That's an argument in favor of some kind of segmentation into two or three states.

CDFingers
Agreed. However, NorCal won't be served by this, either, since it would include SF and Sacramento. While I'm very much on the liberal side of the spectrum, there is a large portion of the state (probably most of it, by area) that is simply out voted by the Bay Area and the LA/San Diego area. It's kind of a rough sale when the urbanites are constantly pushing their goals and objectives onto the rural residents. There are very real differences in lifestyles and beliefs (infrastructure, cultural exposure, guns, religion, etc.). I am sympathetic to our rural residents in that respect but this isn't the solution they are looking for.

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Re: Initiative to breakup CA will likely be on the ballot

#34 Post by DougMasters » Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:31 pm

If it's just a ploy of representation, and not of the will of the people on how they want to live, then i'd oppose it.

I don't oppose the idea of greater righty representation, not exactly. I mean I wouldn't prefer it, but if the representation is simply a natural consequence that's one thing. If the representation is a total ploy then of course, I think it's bullshit.

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Re: Initiative to breakup CA will likely be on the ballot

#35 Post by senorgrand » Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:38 pm

featureless wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:25 pm
CDFingers wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:03 pm
Truth be told, the interests of citizens in the proposed northern section are not currently represented very well by numbers, in Sacramento. That's an argument in favor of some kind of segmentation into two or three states.

CDFingers
Agreed. However, NorCal won't be served by this, either, since it would include SF and Sacramento. While I'm very much on the liberal side of the spectrum, there is a large portion of the state (probably most of it, by area) that is simply out voted by the Bay Area and the LA/San Diego area. It's kind of a rough sale when the urbanites are constantly pushing their goals and objectives onto the rural residents. There are very real differences in lifestyles and beliefs (infrastructure, cultural exposure, guns, religion, etc.). I am sympathetic to our rural residents in that respect but this isn't the solution they are looking for.
You could reapportion the California Senate so that each county had one senator. That would put a lot of power into the hands of rural counties. It would also leave the California Congressional delegation untouched.

Of course, such a plan would be impossible to pass.
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Re: Initiative to breakup CA will likely be on the ballot

#36 Post by featureless » Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:49 pm

senorgrand wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:38 pm
featureless wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:25 pm
CDFingers wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:03 pm
Truth be told, the interests of citizens in the proposed northern section are not currently represented very well by numbers, in Sacramento. That's an argument in favor of some kind of segmentation into two or three states.

CDFingers
Agreed. However, NorCal won't be served by this, either, since it would include SF and Sacramento. While I'm very much on the liberal side of the spectrum, there is a large portion of the state (probably most of it, by area) that is simply out voted by the Bay Area and the LA/San Diego area. It's kind of a rough sale when the urbanites are constantly pushing their goals and objectives onto the rural residents. There are very real differences in lifestyles and beliefs (infrastructure, cultural exposure, guns, religion, etc.). I am sympathetic to our rural residents in that respect but this isn't the solution they are looking for.
You could reapportion the California Senate so that each county had one senator. That would put a lot of power into the hands of rural counties. It would also leave the California Congressional delegation untouched.

Of course, such a plan would be impossible to pass.
Yeah, politicians seem to balk at equal representation. :lol:

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Re: Initiative to breakup CA will likely be on the ballot

#37 Post by senorgrand » Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:50 pm

Well, I was thinking it would be impossible to pass as an initiative, as the major population centers would shoot it down.
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Re: Initiative to breakup CA will likely be on the ballot

#38 Post by featureless » Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:51 pm

senorgrand wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:50 pm
Well, I was thinking it would be impossible to pass as an initiative, as the major population centers would shoot it down.
There's that problem, too.

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Re: Initiative to breakup CA will likely be on the ballot

#39 Post by highdesert » Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:52 pm

senorgrand wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:38 pm
featureless wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:25 pm
CDFingers wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:03 pm
Truth be told, the interests of citizens in the proposed northern section are not currently represented very well by numbers, in Sacramento. That's an argument in favor of some kind of segmentation into two or three states.

CDFingers
Agreed. However, NorCal won't be served by this, either, since it would include SF and Sacramento. While I'm very much on the liberal side of the spectrum, there is a large portion of the state (probably most of it, by area) that is simply out voted by the Bay Area and the LA/San Diego area. It's kind of a rough sale when the urbanites are constantly pushing their goals and objectives onto the rural residents. There are very real differences in lifestyles and beliefs (infrastructure, cultural exposure, guns, religion, etc.). I am sympathetic to our rural residents in that respect but this isn't the solution they are looking for.
You could reapportion the California Senate so that each county had one senator. That would put a lot of power into the hands of rural counties. It would also leave the California Congressional delegation untouched.

Of course, such a plan would be impossible to pass.
In either Baker vs Carr or Reynolds vs Sims (one person-one vote cases) SCOTUS ruled against apportioning by county. We 'd have Alpine County with 1,175 people and LA County with 105 million people each having a state senator. I agree, the rural areas get screwed because the Bay Area and LA County out vote them. I too don't think So Cal as a whole would vote for it, there are right wing wackos in every county that would love it. LA County like them or not, is a major player in So Cal and moving them to a new state doesn't make sense. If it should pass I don't know if the legislature would have to accept those state boundaries or if they could redraw them. Congress could definitely redrawn them.
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Re: Initiative to breakup CA will likely be on the ballot

#40 Post by featureless » Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:36 pm

It won't pass. California is one of those economies that, like the banks, is too big to (be allowed to) fail. There's no way the powers that be would allow it.

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Re: Initiative to breakup CA will likely be on the ballot

#41 Post by Bisbee » Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:46 pm

Well, that along w the fact that most voters in the major population centers don't even know about this referendum much less feel like they have a dog in the fight. The human tendency for "good enough" alone would prevent The Golden State from splitting off into Those Golden State-lettes.
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Re: Initiative to breakup CA will likely be on the ballot

#42 Post by TrueTexan » Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:50 pm

Even if it did pass it would also take an act of the US Congress and Presidential signature to approve it. I normally would say that would never happen, but since it would probably give the Reptilians another two senators any thing is possible. I thought the Orange Slime Ball would not get nominated or elected. Has anybody check the Temperature in Hell lately?
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Re: Initiative to breakup CA will likely be on the ballot

#43 Post by YankeeTarheel » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:25 pm

TrueTexan wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:50 pm
Even if it did pass it would also take an act of the US Congress and Presidential signature to approve it. I normally would say that would never happen, but since it would probably give the Reptilians another two senators any thing is possible. I thought the Orange Slime Ball would not get nominated or elected. Has anybody check the Temperature in Hell lately?
Been dropping below 0° C since Nov 8, 2016.... :yikes:

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Re: Initiative to breakup CA will likely be on the ballot

#44 Post by Bisbee » Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:00 am

Maybe where Turnip and his EPA chief actually resides. "What's this Global Warming hooey? It's actually getting colder where we live!"
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Re: Initiative to breakup CA will likely be on the ballot

#45 Post by VodoundaVinci » Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:14 pm

So...what's the current state of the CalExit Movement? - https://yescalifornia.org/

Has this been superseded by the "let's split CA into multiple States" or are proponents of California seceding form the US still wanting that?

Gotta tell ya the truth, if CA would jump ship and become it's own nation I think that would benefit California a lot more than splitting it into factions/states.

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