This bugs me--Climate Canaries

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This bugs me--Climate Canaries

#1 Post by featureless » Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:21 pm

Usually, I watch the Arctic Sea ice collapse as my biggest climate canary. Here's another horrifying one. As with the sea ice, just because you don't see it doesn't mean it's not happening.
The world’s insects are hurtling down the path to extinction, threatening a “catastrophic collapse of nature’s ecosystems”, according to the first global scientific review.

More than 40% of insect species are declining and a third are endangered, the analysis found. The rate of extinction is eight times faster than that of mammals, birds and reptiles. The total mass of insects is falling by a precipitous 2.5% a year, according to the best data available, suggesting they could vanish within a century.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... -of-nature

So those of you that garden or rake leaves, have you noticed the reduction of the creepy crawlies in the duff? I have. As a kid, you could find backyard insects everywhere. Now, not nearly so much.

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Re: This bugs me--Climate Canaries

#2 Post by highdesert » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:18 pm

Yes the melting of the ice caps and glaciers and their drifting into shipping channels thousands of miles south. It's all out there, but this years unusually cold weather has just fed into the climate change denial. The experts say the crazy jet stream causing the cold weather is just another sign of climate change. Not surprised about the changes with insects.
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Re: This bugs me--Climate Canaries

#3 Post by AndyH » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:56 pm

featureless wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:21 pm
Usually, I watch the Arctic Sea ice collapse as my biggest climate canary. Here's another horrifying one. As with the sea ice, just because you don't see it doesn't mean it's not happening.
The world’s insects are hurtling down the path to extinction, threatening a “catastrophic collapse of nature’s ecosystems”, according to the first global scientific review.

More than 40% of insect species are declining and a third are endangered, the analysis found. The rate of extinction is eight times faster than that of mammals, birds and reptiles. The total mass of insects is falling by a precipitous 2.5% a year, according to the best data available, suggesting they could vanish within a century.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... -of-nature

So those of you that garden or rake leaves, have you noticed the reduction of the creepy crawlies in the duff? I have. As a kid, you could find backyard insects everywhere. Now, not nearly so much.
Yessir. It wasn't so long ago that one had to stop and clear bug remains from the windshield multiple times during a holiday drive. Our agricultural practices are devastating. Worse yet is the way most Americans treat lawns. Without pollinators we're screwed.
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Re: This bugs me--Climate Canaries

#4 Post by Mason » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:10 pm

The average cultivated suburban lawn has less biodiversity per square foot than a sand desert.

Things are getting very grave.
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Re: This bugs me--Climate Canaries

#5 Post by featureless » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:21 pm

Fun thing about the agricultural pressures on our insect friends, as climate change continues to put additional pressure on feeding 7.5 billion (and growing) people, we'll bring more land into production (such as there is in a changing climate), destroy more habitat and dump more chemicals on it. As insect decomposes decline, we'll find ourselves with even less fertile soil and the loss of organic matter will result in greater soil aridity so we'll have to dump more water on it to get things to grow. Not to mention, when we lose our decomposers, we'll be eyeball deep in bullshit (among other nastiness we'd rather have returned to the soil). Climate change itself is altering insect habitat and food availability at the first level of the food web that will expand on upward resulting in food shortages to the critters we do see. The feedback loops contained in climate change are mind boggling when you start looking at them.

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Re: This bugs me--Climate Canaries

#6 Post by Bisbee » Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:59 pm

:shock:
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Re: This bugs me--Climate Canaries

#7 Post by AndyH » Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:16 pm

featureless wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:21 pm
Fun thing about the agricultural pressures on our insect friends, as climate change continues to put additional pressure on feeding 7.5 billion (and growing) people, we'll bring more land into production (such as there is in a changing climate), destroy more habitat and dump more chemicals on it. As insect decomposes decline, we'll find ourselves with even less fertile soil and the loss of organic matter will result in greater soil aridity so we'll have to dump more water on it to get things to grow. Not to mention, when we lose our decomposers, we'll be eyeball deep in bullshit (among other nastiness we'd rather have returned to the soil). Climate change itself is altering insect habitat and food availability at the first level of the food web that will expand on upward resulting in food shortages to the critters we do see. The feedback loops contained in climate change are mind boggling when you start looking at them.
Conventional agriculture practices turn living soil into dirt already - no climate change necessary. They're just mining the ground of nutrients at this point and watching the soil blow away. Since there's no life left in the dirt, and literally tons of insecticides, we can't even go back to spreading manure. Additionally, we lose about 10% of grain production for every 1°C the temp rises. We're rapidly approaching a point where the bubble will have to burst.

There's a segment in the series "The Expanse" where a botanist is examining the hydroponic system maintaining the air-cleaning plants and talking about how the ecosystem can't survive the sort of disruption that just occurred. He noted that the station is "dead already - they just don't know it yet". (Season 2, Episode 10, "Cascade")
https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1 ... aa5e6d/pdf


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Re: This bugs me--Climate Canaries

#8 Post by YankeeTarheel » Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:40 pm

AndyH wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:16 pm
featureless wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:21 pm
Fun thing about the agricultural pressures on our insect friends, as climate change continues to put additional pressure on feeding 7.5 billion (and growing) people, we'll bring more land into production (such as there is in a changing climate), destroy more habitat and dump more chemicals on it. As insect decomposes decline, we'll find ourselves with even less fertile soil and the loss of organic matter will result in greater soil aridity so we'll have to dump more water on it to get things to grow. Not to mention, when we lose our decomposers, we'll be eyeball deep in bullshit (among other nastiness we'd rather have returned to the soil). Climate change itself is altering insect habitat and food availability at the first level of the food web that will expand on upward resulting in food shortages to the critters we do see. The feedback loops contained in climate change are mind boggling when you start looking at them.
Conventional agriculture practices turn living soil into dirt already - no climate change necessary. They're just mining the ground of nutrients at this point and watching the soil blow away. Since there's no life left in the dirt, and literally tons of insecticides, we can't even go back to spreading manure. Additionally, we lose about 10% of grain production for every 1°C the temp rises. We're rapidly approaching a point where the bubble will have to burst.

There's a segment in the series "The Expanse" where a botanist is examining the hydroponic system maintaining the air-cleaning plants and talking about how the ecosystem can't survive the sort of disruption that just occurred. He noted that the station is "dead already - they just don't know it yet". (Season 2, Episode 10, "Cascade")
https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1 ... aa5e6d/pdf


Happy thoughts.
Yup. Prax, who sees everything in botany terms. My favorite sci-fi show! (Actually, the only sci-fi show I watch, one of only 4 that aren't straight news).

We think of insects as "bugs!". They bite, they get into our food, they eat our houses, they destroy our vegetable and fruit gardens...but, without insects, we're all dead.
1/3 of our food directly requires pollination. They convert and revitalize soil, process and recycle all kinds of stuff. They provide food for all kinds of animals, even plants!

Without the bugs, we're all dead and the most aggressive estimate is that they'll all be extinct in 100 years.
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Re: This bugs me--Climate Canaries

#9 Post by K9s » Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:41 pm

That is strange. I see few bugs (normally a good thing here) but also fewer birds, spiders, snakes, and other stuff that eat bugs. Also, I used to see foxes, owls, and other wildlife regularly. The past few years I only see a few deer and a lot of crows. I also used to commonly see vultures going after road kill - no more.

I used to watch hawks catch white Norwegian rats near the creek. The dogs would sometimes catch them, too. Now, the dead rats are grey/black that I see. No hawk catches in view anymore (just cat kills, I guess?). Dogs haven't caught one in about five years. That change happened immediately about 5 years ago.

I cannot explain it.
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Re: This bugs me--Climate Canaries

#10 Post by YankeeTarheel » Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:13 pm

K9s wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:41 pm
That is strange. I see few bugs (normally a good thing here) but also fewer birds, spiders, snakes, and other stuff that eat bugs. Also, I used to see foxes, owls, and other wildlife regularly. The past few years I only see a few deer and a lot of crows. I also used to commonly see vultures going after road kill - no more.

I used to watch hawks catch white Norwegian rats near the creek. The dogs would sometimes catch them, too. Now, the dead rats are grey/black that I see. No hawk catches in view anymore (just cat kills, I guess?). Dogs haven't caught one in about five years. That change happened immediately about 5 years ago.

I cannot explain it.
Other than the insects dying out, at the base of the food chain?
If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything." -- Mark Twain
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Re: This bugs me--Climate Canaries

#11 Post by featureless » Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:26 pm

YankeeTarheel wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:13 pm
K9s wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:41 pm
That is strange. I see few bugs (normally a good thing here) but also fewer birds, spiders, snakes, and other stuff that eat bugs. Also, I used to see foxes, owls, and other wildlife regularly. The past few years I only see a few deer and a lot of crows. I also used to commonly see vultures going after road kill - no more.

I used to watch hawks catch white Norwegian rats near the creek. The dogs would sometimes catch them, too. Now, the dead rats are grey/black that I see. No hawk catches in view anymore (just cat kills, I guess?). Dogs haven't caught one in about five years. That change happened immediately about 5 years ago.

I cannot explain it.
Other than the insects dying out, at the base of the food chain?
It's happening in the oceans as well. Climate change is also resulting in parts of the food web (aquatic and terrestrial) moving to other locations or showing up at the wrong time of year leaving thier predators to starve. Must keep the matrix going so we all slumber on in our consumption orgy. Happy thoughts indeed.

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Re: This bugs me--Climate Canaries

#12 Post by K9s » Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:12 am

YankeeTarheel wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:13 pm
K9s wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:41 pm
That is strange. I see few bugs (normally a good thing here) but also fewer birds, spiders, snakes, and other stuff that eat bugs. Also, I used to see foxes, owls, and other wildlife regularly. The past few years I only see a few deer and a lot of crows. I also used to commonly see vultures going after road kill - no more.

I used to watch hawks catch white Norwegian rats near the creek. The dogs would sometimes catch them, too. Now, the dead rats are grey/black that I see. No hawk catches in view anymore (just cat kills, I guess?). Dogs haven't caught one in about five years. That change happened immediately about 5 years ago.

I cannot explain it.
Other than the insects dying out, at the base of the food chain?
The whole thing happening here so suddenly. I wouldn't have guessed it could happen so fast. It isn't like there is a lot of new development or obvious changes.
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Re: This bugs me--Climate Canaries

#13 Post by TrueTexan » Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:01 pm

As the climate changes new problems erupt.
Dozens of hungry polar bears have invaded the remote Artic region of Novaya Zemlya, leading authorities to declare an emergency. 'There’s never been such a mass invasion of polar bears,' said Zhigansha Musin, the head of the local administration. 'They have literally been chasing people.' A team of specialists has now been sent to sedate and remove the bears
https://www.theguardian.com/global/vide ... deo-report
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Re: This bugs me--Climate Canaries

#14 Post by featureless » Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:24 pm

I'll be dead in 60 years, but some here might not be. Here's a fun little tool to get an idea of what the climate in your city will be like in 2080. Looks like things shift pole-ward roughly 500 miles. That's going to make a mess of agriculture, water availability and species ability to migrate.

https://fitzlab.shinyapps.io/cityapp/

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Re: This bugs me--Climate Canaries

#15 Post by CDFingers » Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:42 am

I've noticed fewer mosquitoes and fleas.

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Re: This bugs me--Climate Canaries

#16 Post by featureless » Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:09 am

CDFingers wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:42 am
I've noticed fewer mosquitoes and fleas.

CDFingers
That's surprising. With the mild (no hard freeze) winters we've been having, you should actually be seeing more of the blood suckers. Tics here last year were out of control. We have to medicate the dog or they end up all over the house. Yuck.

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Re: This bugs me--Climate Canaries

#17 Post by K9s » Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:30 am

Yes, last year was the first year I had to use tick protection here. These dogs had never had or seen ticks in 10+ years.
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Re: This bugs me--Climate Canaries

#18 Post by sikacz » Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:43 pm

I don’t even see the cockroaches we used to see just a few years ago.
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Re: This bugs me--Climate Canaries

#19 Post by YankeeTarheel » Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:47 pm

sikacz wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:43 pm
I don’t even see the cockroaches we used to see just a few years ago.
When cockroaches, which were old when the dinosaurs appeared, die out, we're all doomed.
If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything." -- Mark Twain
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Re: This bugs me--Climate Canaries

#20 Post by featureless » Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:13 pm

YankeeTarheel wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:47 pm
sikacz wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:43 pm
I don’t even see the cockroaches we used to see just a few years ago.
When cockroaches, which were old when the dinosaurs appeared, die out, we're all doomed.
Yes sir. When one considers we are extincting (is that a word?) species that have survived several past punctuated extinction events, it make one worry about the future or our relatively young species.

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