Leaving monarchies behind

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sikacz
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Leaving monarchies behind

Post by sikacz »

I'm a anti monarchist and this article brought me joy.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... a-republic
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Re: Leaving monarchies behind

Post by wings »

:yahoo:
Off with her head! Oh, wait.

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Re: Leaving monarchies behind

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i'm very very unhappy with anything that smells of hereditary privilege or superiority. harry and megan? white trash in glitter. part of the reason i lost interest in Star Wars. Luke, i am your father.

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Re: Leaving monarchies behind

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lurker wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:50 am
i'm very very unhappy with anything that smells of hereditary privilege or superiority. harry and megan? white trash in glitter. part of the reason i lost interest in Star Wars. Luke, i am your father.
Yup. I was done w/Star Wars right there.
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Re: Leaving monarchies behind

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lurker wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:50 am
i'm very very unhappy with anything that smells of hereditary privilege or superiority. harry and megan? white trash in glitter. part of the reason i lost interest in Star Wars. Luke, i am your father.
Hereditary privilege even in non monarchies is disdainful as well. I like that description, but would amend to "trash in glitter", let's not forget the kim types.
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Re: Leaving monarchies behind

Post by sikacz »

RotaryMags wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:55 am
lurker wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:50 am
i'm very very unhappy with anything that smells of hereditary privilege or superiority. harry and megan? white trash in glitter. part of the reason i lost interest in Star Wars. Luke, i am your father.
Yup. I was done w/Star Wars right there.
I'm a sci-fi buff, unfortunately many writers are enamored with the trappings of right wing and the institutions surrounding them including monarchies.
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Re: Leaving monarchies behind

Post by RotaryMags »

The only authoritarian I approve of is Havelock Vetinari.

I think they read too much Heinlein.
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Re: Leaving monarchies behind

Post by wings »

Heinlein was a die-hard libertarian. He did refer to this stretch of his future history as the 'Crazy Years,' though. Seem to recall him writing about how the US would ultimately become a radical right-wing religious dictatorship "If This Goes On -"

"The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" is a pretty hardcore social-libertarian and anti-colonialist screed, too. Starship Troopers wasn't exactly indicative of his political leanings. More of his fears.

Vetenari is the Platonic ideal of a ruthless autocrat.

Star Wars was good. Rogue One was too, now that you mention it. None of the others really hold up, not that I've seen the last few. Now, Star Trek has its ups and downs, but most of the movies are back on Prime, and I watched Wrath of Khan again a few weeks back. Damn, that was good, Shatner be damned. I haven't got back to B5 since '16, but the parallels to present are striking. Ironically, the writers were also responsible for the original She-Ra, and I have watched the entire Netflix reboot straight through. Despite the princesses, it's way better than it has any right to be.

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Re: Leaving monarchies behind

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RotaryMags wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:11 am
The only authoritarian I approve of is Havelock Vetinari.

I think they read too much Heinlein.
Come on. Havelock is a Tyrant.
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Re: Leaving monarchies behind

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I've been trying to watch at least one of the Star War movies all the way through. I own copies of them all (except maybe the last few) but I simply cannot abide more then ten or fifteen minutes of one before I simply have to give up.
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Re: Leaving monarchies behind

Post by YankeeTarheel »

What I didn't get from the article is whether Barbados is, as a republic, no longer a member of the Commonwealth.
Barbados is a lovely island, and we've been there a number of times, but probably not in 20 years. Bridgetown used to be a fun place, and the people used to be described as "more English than the English".
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Re: Leaving monarchies behind

Post by harriss »

sikacz wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:00 am
I'm a anti monarchist and this article brought me joy.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... a-republic
Thomas Hobbes disagrees with you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leviathan_(Hobbes_book)
Is ignorance bliss? NO! It's suffering. Suffering ends when ignorance ends.

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Re: Leaving monarchies behind

Post by cooper »

This thread cracks me up. Apparently, I didn't bring my full analytical brain to watching Star Wars. I was 8 when the first one came out, so yeah it got me hook, line, and sinker.

:lol:

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Re: Leaving monarchies behind

Post by YankeeTarheel »

cooper wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:30 pm
This thread cracks me up. Apparently, I didn't bring my full analytical brain to watching Star Wars. I was 8 when the first one came out, so yeah it got me hook, line, and sinker.

:lol:
I was 22. It wasn't called "A New Hope", just "Star Wars" Thought it was dumb, mindless, empty entertainment, with "quotes" (thefts) from Westerns, swashbucklers, WWII dogfight movies, and, of course, 2001: A Space Odyssey. Loved it. Paid to see it in a movie theater 4 times! Seen it many times since then--all of Lucas's "improvements" did zippo, IMHO. The only actors I recognized were Alec Guinness (of course!), Peter Cushing, and David Prowse (he was in "A Clockwork Orange"). James Earl Jones, whom I've seen 5x on stage, wasn't credited.
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Re: Leaving monarchies behind

Post by lurker »

star wars was, while enjoyable, essentially a live-action comic book. they've built a whole franchise on it, which merely proves that live-action comic books can still be profitable. profit margin dropping off? make another one. now we have the marvel universe, 3 or 4 star trek spinoffs, etc. :yawn:

i never took it seriously, buck/roy rogers with better production values. han solo's blaster was a mauser c-96. :cool:

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Re: Leaving monarchies behind

Post by sikacz »

harriss wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:52 pm
sikacz wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:00 am
I'm a anti monarchist and this article brought me joy.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... a-republic
Thomas Hobbes disagrees with you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leviathan_(Hobbes_book)
It’s my personal perspective, it doesn’t matter what hobbes thinks. If every monarchist disappeared this minute humanity would be better off and I would rejoice.
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Re: Leaving monarchies behind

Post by TrueTexan »

YankeeTarheel wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:38 pm
cooper wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:30 pm
This thread cracks me up. Apparently, I didn't bring my full analytical brain to watching Star Wars. I was 8 when the first one came out, so yeah it got me hook, line, and sinker.

:lol:
I was 22. It wasn't called "A New Hope", just "Star Wars" Thought it was dumb, mindless, empty entertainment, with "quotes" (thefts) from Westerns, swashbucklers, WWII dogfight movies, and, of course, 2001: A Space Odyssey. Loved it. Paid to see it in a movie theater 4 times! Seen it many times since then--all of Lucas's "improvements" did zippo, IMHO. The only actors I recognized were Alec Guinness (of course!), Peter Cushing, and David Prowse (he was in "A Clockwork Orange"). James Earl Jones, whom I've seen 5x on stage, wasn't credited.
I was just a few years older and that was the first date with my future wife, one year later. You are correct about Star Wars. Lucas based it on the serial movies of the Saturday matinees he watched in his youth. It just struck a cord with a lot of people. YT you left out Flash Gordon and the Emperor Ming.

BTW I’m waiting for the second season of Mandalorian On October 30.
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Re: Leaving monarchies behind

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Re: Leaving monarchies behind

Post by lurker »

considering how badly we're doing with elected heads of state lately, and given what little i know about her, if elizabeth wanted to trade places with donald i'd be ok with that.

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Re: Leaving monarchies behind

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lurker wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:27 am
considering how badly we're doing with elected heads of state lately, and given what little i know about her, if elizabeth wanted to trade places with donald i'd be ok with that.
Finland seems to have a fair number of elected women running the country and doing a good job. I don't buy the e to d trade. How about we just start selecting better candidates instead of the ones that have been leading us into disaster for the past 40 years.
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Re: Leaving monarchies behind

Post by YankeeTarheel »

lurker wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:27 am
considering how badly we're doing with elected heads of state lately, and given what little i know about her, if elizabeth wanted to trade places with donald i'd be ok with that.
She's sane, but wouldn't want the job. Besides, when she passes, Charles takes over and he's clearly not too tightly wrapped, and is as absorbed in enjoying the privileges as much as the Duh Furor. But I don't think he is a sadistic sociopath.
""If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you." -- LBJ

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Re: Leaving monarchies behind

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lurker wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:27 am
considering how badly we're doing with elected heads of state lately, and given what little i know about her, if elizabeth wanted to trade places with donald i'd be ok with that.
There is something to be said for figurehead heads of state, someone who is above politics whether it's hereditary or elected. QE II is more popular than her elected prime ministers, but she lives in a gilded cage. Royals never discuss politics and do not vote. Prince Harry once commented that no one (meaning royals) wants to be king. It's a very constraining life with paparazzi everywhere all their lives, it would never appeal to me. Continental monarchies are similar, some of those royals have jobs and don't use their titles. The present king of the Netherlands was an airline pilot for years when he was crown prince. Some have even renounced their titles so they can live an ordinary life. Yes, a separate neutral head of state and an elected head of government seems a much better way.

Not all members of the Commonwealth of Nations recognize QE II as head of state, there has been serious talk in Australia of becoming a republic after the queen passes. QE II isn't head of the Commonwealth any longer, member states elected Prince Charles on the queen's recommendation.

Elected heads of state can sometimes be problematic, they come from political parties and aren't always seen as honest brokers when it's required. Challenges for each country.
Last edited by highdesert on Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Leaving monarchies behind

Post by YankeeTarheel »

Parliamentary systems have either a monarch or elect a President. Germany and Israel have Presidents, as well as a Prime Minister (Chancellor in Germany). Many nations follow this type of democracy, where the President has limited power, similar to a monarch's. Mainly, they are to assure a continuity of government when the PM is voted out of office or must resign.
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Re: Leaving monarchies behind

Post by highdesert »

YankeeTarheel wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:01 pm
Parliamentary systems have either a monarch or elect a President. Germany and Israel have Presidents, as well as a Prime Minister (Chancellor in Germany). Many nations follow this type of democracy, where the President has limited power, similar to a monarch's. Mainly, they are to assure a continuity of government when the PM is voted out of office or must resign.
I think the elected heads of state are better when they aren't from any of the major parties so are able to stay above the fray. Joachin Gauck of Germany was a Lutheran minister and was an independent in parliament before he became Germany's president. The current German president came from the Social Democratic Party which is part of the current national unity government of Angela Merkel. Reuven Rivlin who is the current president of Israel was a former Likud cabinet minister even though he and Bibi aren't "mates" they are from the same party. The current president of Ireland, the beloved Michael D Higgins who is 79 years old came from the minor Irish Labour Party. Giorgio Napolitano of Italy who came from the left, was also very popular and could have served longer but he was 90 years old and pushed the country to elect a new president so he could resign. As you know QE II is 94 years old.
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Re: Leaving monarchies behind

Post by sikacz »

The solution is not old men or old women from monarchies. It's electing candidates with vision and intellect instead of corporate cronies and those beholding to monied elites.

Response during crisis..
https://www.forbes.com/sites/avivahwitt ... d7341d3dec

Women lead..
https://www.forbes.com/sites/carmenniet ... 99b1b35aa0
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