Fun conversation with anti gun progressive

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A friend stopped in today with his wife. I dragged out the winchester 1885 to show him. He is a woodworking hobbyists and thought he'd enjoy the stock. Well his wife was not impressed.

Anywho. The conversation came around to

"Would you really shoot another human being, take their life just for breaking in and stealing your shit"

I said "Maybe" But they are the ones who are causing their own problem, not me"

Why is the person protecting their property and family the bad guy? Why is it bad to try to stop a theif?

I also discovered she automatically thinks every shooting is to kill. She could not fathom that I may shoot a robber to stop them and not to kill them. She couldnt wrap her head around a non lethal gun shot.

She went on with the usual..." maybe he is just trying to feed his kids and needs it "

To which I replied " DUh. I need it too, and I bought it , and I need to feed my kids too so if I have to pay to replace what he stole, how is that right.?

One of those mornings where you wish you'd slept in.. Lol

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This is just my opinion, yours may vary and is no less valid.
- Me -

"I will never claim to be an expert, and it has been my experience that self proclaimed experts are usually self proclaimed."
-Me-

I must proof read more

Re: Fun conversation with anti gun progressive

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I do feel free to shoot anyone who threatens me and/or my wife. If the BG has my stuff and is running, I am using the phone. If he is coming into the house while I am home, he is willing to fight me, injure me, and/or kill me to take my shit. But I have no need or desire to protect your friend or his wife. They are adults. Their shit, their lives, their decision.
Last edited by dougb on Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children what it was once like in the United States where men were free.
- Ronald Reagan

Re: Fun conversation with anti gun progressive

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atxgunguy wrote:
Inquisitor wrote:I have an opinion. You won't like it.


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Me too. Something about an appropriate use of force vs. situation.
Never shoot to kill, only to stop. That being said, never shoot unless your life is in imminent danger to begin with.

However, if your state is like mine and has Castle Doctrine, you are justified (legally) to shoot someone simply for breaking in. Personally, I wouldn't... unless they threatened life or limb.

Re: Fun conversation with anti gun progressive

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To echo what other folks are saying, I'm not surprised your guests weren't persuaded.

The correct answer to what you would do if someone is breaking in while you are home: neither common sense nor the law require you to ask an invader what their intentions are.

I know that in Texas you can shoot a thief, but that opens you up to hard questions about the presence of a threat to your life.

Re: Fun conversation with anti gun progressive

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Thorian wrote:
atxgunguy wrote:
Inquisitor wrote:I have an opinion. You won't like it.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
Me too. Something about an appropriate use of force vs. situation.
Never shoot to kill, only to stop. That being said, never shoot unless your life is in imminent danger to begin with.

However, if your state is like mine and has Castle Doctrine, you are justified (legally) to shoot someone simply for breaking in. Personally, I wouldn't... unless they threatened life or limb.
Oregon law means I'd be legally covered by shooting someone that broke in, but in practice I'd still pay a fortune in legal fees just to protect myself from the lawyers.
Not worth it unless life was at stake. Oh yeah, plus the my TV isn't really worth a life thing.
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Re: Fun conversation with anti gun progressive

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A motorcycle buddy and his wife stopped during their ride together and my wife and I shared some tea and snacks with them. During the conversation it happened that he mentioned he was carrying. I guess he must have known I was into guns but didn't know my wife was adamantly against guns in the house. I smiled but was glad that he didn't pull it out to show me his daily carry in front of my wife.

But I did observe my wife's mood afterward and was happy that she didn't seem to sour on them. We continued talking about the legalities of CC in Oregon also so there was plenty of opportunity for her to jump in with, "Would you really shoot someone if they ---" kinda question.

Such questions are meaningless. They imply a measure of control over a situation which, by it's very nature violates of the norm to upended for most people's lives. How many folks (aside from the police or career criminals) have the wherewithal to stay in control of themselves (much less the intruder) in a home invasion, mugging, or heaven forbid a rape? I would argue that having a gun in one's hand brings back a measure of control but even that's not guaranteed. But to imagine being so cool as to say, "go ahead since you must need my shit more than I do to break into my house while me and the kids are in it but just try not to track mud on the carpets as you work..."

How does one answer poorly thought out questions that are based on a fantastical premises? I guess you can point out the root fantasies the person holds, as if that ever ends well. But if you value the friendship it's better just to smile and say, "Ya know? I never thought about that before. Let me ponder the question a little and get back to you."
"It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of non-violence to cover impotence. There is hope for a violent man to become non-violent. There is no such hope for the impotent." -Gandhi

Re: Fun conversation with anti gun progressive

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Bisbee I agree with the sentiment, and I agree generally in not being afraid to say "I don't know," but I think the guests may have found that answer even more alarming.

A general note to gun owners: figure out your answer to this question early and often (your stance may change), and make sure it aligns with good sense and the law where you live.

For myself, I can say that even though I don't (can't legally) carry, purchasing defensive firearms and training in their use has forced me to consider these questions at length. I think every gun owner, even the couple-times-a-year plinkers, should resolve these questions for themselves at some point.

Re: Fun conversation with anti gun progressive

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My answer is simple. I will do my best to avoid shooting intruders. I will tell them loudly to get out, and if they choose to attack only then I will open fire. I have a wife and a daughter, if I'm down then they are in grave danger. Therefore, I can't risk getting incapacitated. If you can't understand a husband and a father wanting to keep his family safe, you are hereby invited to leave my property and not return.
Glad that federal government is boring again.

Re: Fun conversation with anti gun progressive

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Stiff wrote:My answer is simple. I will do my best to avoid shooting intruders. I will tell them loudly to get out, and if they choose to attack only then I will open fire. I have a wife and a daughter, if I'm down then they are in grave danger. Therefore, I can't risk getting incapacitated. If you can't understand a husband and a father wanting to keep his family safe, you are hereby invited to leave my property and not return.
+1. I will give the dirtbag every opportunity to get out of the house while my wife is calling 911, but as soon as I perceive an actual threat to our safety (e.g. Kicking at doors, coming up stairs, vocalizing harm to us, etc) I will take a much more aggressive posture.

Re: Fun conversation with anti gun progressive

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p0lyhuman wrote:To echo what other folks are saying, I'm not surprised your guests weren't persuaded.

The correct answer to what you would do if someone is breaking in while you are home: neither common sense nor the law require you to ask an invader what their intentions are.

I know that in Texas you can shoot a thief, but that opens you up to hard questions about the presence of a threat to your life.
In Texas you can use lethal force in any attached area of your home, for example, an uninvited person on your porch or in your attached garage.

I've had my house broken into and it's not the stuff that bothers me that's why I buy insurance. It's the violation of your space and safety that keeps me up at night. I also live in a neighborhood where someone was shot when he answered a knock on the door. If someone at the door is not expected, I will open the door prepared.

Re: Fun conversation with anti gun progressive

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spara wrote:
p0lyhuman wrote:To echo what other folks are saying, I'm not surprised your guests weren't persuaded.

The correct answer to what you would do if someone is breaking in while you are home: neither common sense nor the law require you to ask an invader what their intentions are.
Yep. And to echo, you don't shoot to wound. You shoot to stop the threat to your or your loved ones lives. Anyone who thinks they can just shoot someone in the kneecaps is living in a hollywood fantasy land. You shoot at the biggest target which is center mass until the threat stops.
“Do the best you can until you know better. Then when you know better, do better.”
- Maya Angelou

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Re: Fun conversation with anti gun progressive

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I do hope one day in my lifetime we will move to a 'personal property not private property' model. I hate that capitalism is driving folks to do things that most of the herd won't do in order to survive due to factors that are totally unfair.

I also know that any animal - including the humans - when driven to desperate actions are very dangerous. Someone steals my stuff but does not harm myself or my family? I am not going to chase them or want to hunt them down to make them pay. I am going to replace the things as I am able to do so.

Nobody comes to rob anyone's home when folks are home without meaning to also bring harm to those people. I will take any actions required to stop any threat to myself or my family or anyone near me.
In a bacon, egg and cheese sandwich the chicken and cow are involved while the pig is committed.

Re: Fun conversation with anti gun progressive

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To expand on my thought process: breaking into homes is not as profitable as robbing banks or gas stations. People rarely keep cash at home these days, and the valuables are cumbersome to take away. Criminals who break into houses --despite knowing somebody is home-- are desperate, stupid, or both. That makes them particularly dangerous.

I don't expect anybody to invade my place, but when they do I can't count on them leaving us unharmed while they cart off the large screen tv, computers, and phones.

Thankfully in Indiana I'm justified to use deadly force to prevent or terminate an unlawful entry. When somebody is kicking down my door, I don't have to wait until he gets inside before I open fire.
(d) A person:
(1) is justified in using reasonable force, including deadly force, against any other person;  and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;
if the person reasonably believes that the force is necessary to prevent or terminate the other person's unlawful entry of or attack on the person's dwelling, curtilage, or occupied motor vehicle.
Glad that federal government is boring again.

Re: Fun conversation with anti gun progressive

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Honestly, I would rather lay my own life down than let someone steal the dryer lint out of my pants pocket. Too many people have victimized me, too many people have gotten away with victimizing me, and I am sick and fucking tired of living in a world where people think they can just take whatever they want from whomever they want, and other people think their victims should just let them.

If someone kicks down my door, there's going to be a fight. I will try to keep them alive if I win, but only after I win.

If nothing in my house is worth somebody else's life, why are they risking their lives to steal it?
Viktyr C Gehrig
United States Pirate Party

Re: Fun conversation with anti gun progressive

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spara wrote:
p0lyhuman wrote:T

. If someone at the door is not expected, I will open the door prepared.
As long as you can see him from inside first and make sure he's not wearing a uniform. He could shoot youand get away with it as has happened.
Bill in Ohio

Where Liberty dwells, there is my country.- Ben Franklin
Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever. - Jefferson
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.- Hunter Thompson

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