Re: Let's hear some of your best, right wing anti gun control talking points.

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Brownrasta wrote: Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:49 pm
Eris wrote: Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:13 pm
Brownrasta wrote: Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:08 pm I will start this: "If they ban guns, they have to ban cars too."
Counter: you need your car to go to work, grocery store, etc.
Counter counter: You can walk, ride a bicycle, or take the bus.
Buses are not available outside the city.
Neither are the police - it takes them 30 minutes to an hour to answer calls in rural areas - and that's why people need to be able to keep guns in their homes.
106+ recreational uses of firearms
1 defensive use
0 people injured
0 people killed

Re: Let's hear some of your best, right wing anti gun control talking points.

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Brownrasta wrote: Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:51 pm
senorgrand wrote: Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:24 pm "Communism"
"Sharia Law"
senorgrand wrote: Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:41 pm If reducing the speed limit to 55 saved half as many lives as killed by guns, would you support it?
Communism killed 20 trillion people
"Caravans"
"Black Panthers"

Like "Communism" and "Sharia Law", it makes no sense, but that is probably beside the point. It is about anyone outside the group/tribe.

The NRA Supported Gun Control When the Black Panthers Had the Weapons
https://www.history.com/news/black-pant ... ulford-act
It is an unfortunate human failing that a full pocketbook often groans more loudly than an empty stomach.

- Franklin D. Roosevelt

Re: Let's hear some of your best, right wing anti gun control talking points.

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Brownrasta wrote: Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:54 pm You need hi capacity mags to hunt hogs.
Get a real hunting rifle to hunt hogs ad you don't need hi capacity mags.

Got a friend that Bow Hunts hogs and has never had to kill one yet with a gun. He does carry a pistol just in case.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

Re: Let's hear some of your best, right wing anti gun control talking points.

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To me is it really simple.

There are ten amendments in the Bill or Rights. Of the one, only the tenth could be considered ambiguous as to whether it is primarily an individual right vs a protection for States. All of the others clearly refer to an individual right.

So clearly, the founders considered the 1st amendment as the single most important.

Am I to assume that they just randomly chose gun ownership as the 2nd? That its order in the sequence has no meaning?

There is a clear mechanism to modify and extend the constitution - the amendment process. The various legislators have been free to revoke the 2A for more than 200 years.

S1: Items in the BoR are individual rights
S2: The founders chose to list the RTKABA as the 2nd most important in the series
S3: There is a mechanism to change the 2A
G: Feel free to get 2/3 of the States to rewrite or revoke the Second Amendment
Image

Re: Let's hear some of your best, right wing anti gun control talking points.

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I think that some of the "far-right" anti-anti-2A arguments are valid (Bill of Rights) and some are just idiotic and racist (too many to list).

High cap mag is a separate issue. Like a V-6 engine, I don't "need" it for survival. However, like a V-6 engine that came with my old truck, it will cost me to replace it just because you think I should replace it - at my own expense.

I am not sure what you are asking, Brownrasta.
It is an unfortunate human failing that a full pocketbook often groans more loudly than an empty stomach.

- Franklin D. Roosevelt

Re: Let's hear some of your best, right wing anti gun control talking points.

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max129 wrote: Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:18 pm To me is it really simple.

There are ten amendments in the Bill or Rights. Of the one, only the tenth could be considered ambiguous as to whether it is primarily an individual right vs a protection for States. All of the others clearly refer to an individual right.

So clearly, the founders considered the 1st amendment as the single most important.

Am I to assume that they just randomly chose gun ownership as the 2nd? That its order in the sequence has no meaning?

There is a clear mechanism to modify and extend the constitution - the amendment process. The various legislators have been free to revoke the 2A for more than 200 years.

S1: Items in the BoR are individual rights
S2: The founders chose to list the RTKABA as the 2nd most important in the series
S3: There is a mechanism to change the 2A
G: Feel free to get 2/3 of the States to rewrite or revoke the Second Amendment
Got to point out your mistake here, though it is a very common one. The 1st and 2nd amendments were not the 1st and 2nd amendments proposed in the Bill of Rights. In fact, the original first two amendments failed and were not ratified at the time. The original 1st was about setting the number of members of the House of Representatives, and the original 2nd was about limits on Congressional pay raises. Curiously, this one never expired and was finally ratified as the 27th Amendment in 1992.

https://www.thoughtco.com/original-bill ... ts-3322334

So the 1st and 2nd amendments that we know today were actually the 3rd and 4th that were presented to Congress for ratification. The order of the amendments should not be read as indicating that some amendments were considered more important than others. As far as I can tell, the 2nd really did get it's position randomly.
106+ recreational uses of firearms
1 defensive use
0 people injured
0 people killed

Re: Let's hear some of your best, right wing anti gun control talking points.

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Eris said:

As far as I can tell, the 2nd really did get it's position randomly.
I agree that the total history of the BoR is complex. But on 15 December 1791, the 2A was voted in second in the queue. I maintain that if there were more folks against it, there is no way it would have been allowed to pass as the second item.

The primary advocates for the 2A being high priority were the Virginia delegates (RTKABA is in the Virginia Declaration of Rights and the English BoR).
Image

Re: Let's hear some of your best, right wing anti gun control talking points.

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max129 wrote: Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:18 pm To me is it really simple.

There are ten amendments in the Bill or Rights. Of the one, only the tenth could be considered ambiguous as to whether it is primarily an individual right vs a protection for States. All of the others clearly refer to an individual right.

So clearly, the founders considered the 1st amendment as the single most important.

Am I to assume that they just randomly chose gun ownership as the 2nd? That its order in the sequence has no meaning?

There is a clear mechanism to modify and extend the constitution - the amendment process. The various legislators have been free to revoke the 2A for more than 200 years.

S1: Items in the BoR are individual rights
S2: The founders chose to list the RTKABA as the 2nd most important in the series
S3: There is a mechanism to change the 2A
G: Feel free to get 2/3 of the States to rewrite or revoke the Second Amendment
Won't do any good.

Article V:
The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds
of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified
by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States,
or by Conventions in three fourths thereof,
3/4's is currently 38 states. Just 13 can block any amendment.
"Even if the bee could explain to the fly why pollen is better than shit, the fly could never understand."

Re: Let's hear some of your best, right wing anti gun control talking points.

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Brownrasta wrote: Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:08 pm I will start this: "If they ban guns, they have to ban cars too."
Counter: you need your car to go to work, grocery store, etc.
Just saw this article. This argument is actually starting to be made by some people, and not right wingers.

https://www.treehugger.com/cars/after-4 ... -suvs.html
Four people, including a toddler, were killed last Friday when the driver of a Porsche SUV veered onto a sidewalk full of pedestrians in central Berlin. The police are suggesting that it might have been a medical emergency, but unusually, a lot of people are complaining about the car.

The district mayor says "tank-like SUV cars" don't belong in the city, as every driving error puts the lives of innocent people at risk. "These [cars] are also climate killers. They are a threat even without an accident."
106+ recreational uses of firearms
1 defensive use
0 people injured
0 people killed

Re: Let's hear some of your best, right wing anti gun control talking points.

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K9s wrote: Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:07 pm OMG

Tank-like SUVs [weapons of war?] on the streets.
You don't need anything that I don't want!

Seriously, though, the global warming argument has legs with me. Guns threaten indivduals. Global warming, and by extension the cars that promote it, threaten entire species. I would much sooner support a ban on cars than a ban on guns.
106+ recreational uses of firearms
1 defensive use
0 people injured
0 people killed

Re: Let's hear some of your best, right wing anti gun control talking points.

24
K9s wrote: Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:45 pm I think that some of the "far-right" anti-anti-2A arguments are valid (Bill of Rights) and some are just idiotic and racist (too many to list).

High cap mag is a separate issue. Like a V-6 engine, I don't "need" it for survival. However, like a V-6 engine that came with my old truck, it will cost me to replace it just because you think I should replace it - at my own expense.

I am not sure what you are asking, Brownrasta.
Let's hear your best, pro 2A argument you ever heard on the internet by a right winger
:drunklep: Everything is better with beer and comrades. :drunklep:

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