SHTF...do you really need a helmet?

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JColville
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SHTF...do you really need a helmet?

#1 Post by JColville » Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:10 pm

A video suggestion pops up in my YouTube feed with some guy giving his top 5 helmets for your SHTF BoB. I'm wondering what this guy thinks is going to happen? Is he expecting fragments from artillery, mortars, and grenades? His previous videos have shown 7.62x24 Tokarev will burn through most helmets and rounds from bolt action Mosins, which just about everyone has in their bag, will let a front on shot bounce into your brain pan. Is there something I'm not getting here? If the idea is to travel light to your bunker, why add the extra weight? Is there a use for helmets outside of using that old M1 steel pot to boil water in or look tacticool?
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Re: SHTF...do you really need a helmet?

#2 Post by senorgrand » Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:22 pm

I'd rather be able to carry more water, ammo or move faster than carry a helmet.

Helmets are for people who engage the enemy, not for people who avoid the enemy.
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Re: SHTF...do you really need a helmet?

#3 Post by lurker » Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:36 pm

nobody knows, depends on what kind of S and what kind of F. probably not. attracts attention, adds bulk and weight. iirc, many military rifle rounds were specifically designed to penetrate both sides of a steel pot. with that in mind, most helmets are intended to stop fragments, not bullets.
that said, when i was equipping myself with web gear, gen1 night vision, gas masks, looking at body armor and such, i was going to get a british kevlar paratroop helmet, some protection without that stylin' stormtrooper vibe. and then 9/11 happened and the supply dried up, and i haven't seen one since.

it's ok, don't expect i'll ever need any of it. probably should sell it next time a dem could get elected.
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Re: SHTF...do you really need a helmet?

#4 Post by HuckleberryFun » Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:11 pm

"Incoming!!!"
No, wait. That's not bloody likely is it?

The idea is to avoid a fight if you can. If you can't avoid one then you've got bigger problems than a helmet can likely solve for you.
I always thought they were a pain.
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Re: SHTF...do you really need a helmet?

#5 Post by Simmer down » Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:48 pm

Matching Set.jpg
Can you imagine how silly this would look without the helmet?
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Re: SHTF...do you really need a helmet?

#6 Post by HuckleberryFun » Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:56 pm

Simmer down wrote:
Matching Set.jpg
Can you imagine how silly this would look without the helmet?
Yeah. Totally laughable without the helmet to give the outfit a balanced look.
+1 for the tactical laundry basket in background. "Front Towards Enemy"
:laugh:
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Re: SHTF...do you really need a helmet?

#7 Post by senorgrand » Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:58 pm

Well, the kneepads could make you some friends...
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Re: SHTF...do you really need a helmet?

#8 Post by Sarge » Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:11 pm

experience has taught the military that various kinds of protective gear saves lives.. helmets flak Vests body armor ear plugs steel tor shoes flash gear and flash cream real protective mask ( not the $20 dollar collector specials that don't actually work [we can talk about that in detail if anybody wants] since they don't actually work or protect you from anything they seem to be highly popular.. go figure... because half of an NCO's life consists of making sure people are using safety gear that they absolutely hate wearing.

even this https://armour-wear.com/shop/all/bulletproof-underwear/ save a lot of folks from IED's should have seen the originals.. looked like you were wearing 5 pairs of depends.. I mean loose combat style uniforms like BDU's can only hide so many faults..

You guys and gals are civilians.. you get to choose for yourself what or what not safety gear to wear..

It's always a trade off .. just like a tank that only has one size engine ( I humanpower, but great mileage) speed or mobility or protection or fire power improve one got to take away from the other 3 it's the old wildcat x zero story.. ( Wildcats and FM4's had a 7.1 to 1 kill ratio .. very respectable.. but the Zero got the press) Hoplites or light infantry...

Professionally.. as far as helmets go I would seriously look at the local risk of volcanoes and earthquakes under tall buildings type threats and look at some of the construction or even bike helmets or foot ball helmets something designed to mitigate the local credible threat.. and they are much lighter... I say this because one of the against arguments for wearing helmets was how much artillery airburst or head shot sniping snipers do you expect to encounter.. if you actually do see head wounds from gunshot or artillery as a problem then get military level gear and hope the bad guys don't have RPG's

Gas masks.. I have a whole library of links and tech info on that subject.. long story short version no country has ever sold effective gas masks s surplus .. the rubber gets age crcks the elastic goes limp and filters expire starting at date of manufacture NOT date the can is opened .. they dope the activated charcoal with various chemicals to make it more effective against specific war gasses and they have to use several type of chemicals in that doping to handle a variety of war gasses .. and they interact and break down in the sealed can over time.. the containers are marked as to shelf life after that.. it's not so much that they are ineffective as that they may be toxic all on their own.. and many older filters use asbestos .. filters great.. they even used to use it in cigarette filters .. some specific examples http://www.approvedgasmasks.com/defective-masks.htm

Since I am more concerned about riot agents at peaceful protests .. I carry a readi-msk http://www.shepherdsurvival.com/readi-mask-adult/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYTF5guxqFc pepper spray in the face https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcjCCXBna18 how to use and don

they come in kids sizes and fit in a pocket.. I use them as part of my EDC also good to have stuff https://www.amazon.com/ea-Fox-Labs-Sude ... B0094BFFQ0 recommend both the wipes and the binary decon bottled stuff .especially if you have hair on you head or face.. wipes don't do well on hair.

Safety/ protective gear is not where you want to save money// although good stuff is not expensive https://www.uline.com/Grp_259/Hard-Hats base model starts at $10 and as you might have noticed Readi masks $7 or $6 with the volume discount ( 2 or more) one time use

actually cheaper to do it right and buy gear that works

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Re: SHTF...do you really need a helmet?

#9 Post by MaxWyatt » Thu Sep 28, 2017 1:26 pm

Motorcycle helmet. Great against pretty much everything except firearms/shrapnel.

Sarge, thanks for the tip on the readi-masks.
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Re: SHTF...do you really need a helmet?

#10 Post by YankeeTarheel » Thu Sep 28, 2017 3:25 pm

We saw all those alt-right militias in C'ville. Pretend soldiers.

Motorcycle helmets are designed for both impact and penetration protection. Will it stop a .223 round? Probably not, not even the kevlar ones. But the Snell Rating on MC helmets is probably the best indicator of penetration resistance, although, curiously not necessarily the safest helmet for road use--unless your regularly riding include race grade speeds.
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Re: SHTF...do you really need a helmet?

#11 Post by MaxWyatt » Thu Sep 28, 2017 3:44 pm

YankeeTarheel wrote:We saw all those alt-right militias in C'ville. Pretend soldiers.

Motorcycle helmets are designed for both impact and penetration protection. Will it stop a .223 round? Probably not, not even the kevlar ones. But the Snell Rating on MC helmets is probably the best indicator of penetration resistance, although, curiously not necessarily the safest helmet for road use--unless your regularly riding include race grade speeds.
I've got an old helmet that needs to be retired. I could do some testing, but it would be limited to 9mm and 22lr. However, motorcycle helmets are designed primarily to diffuse force, so I suspect protection would be minimal against a projectile. I could put a small water melon inside the helmet for more realistic testing. I'm not quite sure if that would be funny or macabre. :rolleyes:
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Re: SHTF...do you really need a helmet?

#12 Post by YankeeTarheel » Thu Sep 28, 2017 3:49 pm

MaxWyatt wrote:
YankeeTarheel wrote:We saw all those alt-right militias in C'ville. Pretend soldiers.

Motorcycle helmets are designed for both impact and penetration protection. Will it stop a .223 round? Probably not, not even the kevlar ones. But the Snell Rating on MC helmets is probably the best indicator of penetration resistance, although, curiously not necessarily the safest helmet for road use--unless your regularly riding include race grade speeds.
I've got an old helmet that needs to be retired. I could do some testing, but it would be limited to 9mm and 22lr. However, motorcycle helmets are designed primarily to diffuse force, so I suspect protection would be minimal against a projectile. I could put a small water melon inside the helmet for more realistic testing. I'm not quite sure if that would be funny or macabre. :rolleyes:
Well, I KNOW penetration resistance is part of the testing. It's not guaranteed when you're in an accident you will only impact a flat surface. And, yes, after a few year or after even ONE accident, a helmet must be retired.
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Re: SHTF...do you really need a helmet?

#13 Post by MaxWyatt » Thu Sep 28, 2017 3:55 pm

YankeeTarheel wrote:
MaxWyatt wrote:
YankeeTarheel wrote:We saw all those alt-right militias in C'ville. Pretend soldiers.

Motorcycle helmets are designed for both impact and penetration protection. Will it stop a .223 round? Probably not, not even the kevlar ones. But the Snell Rating on MC helmets is probably the best indicator of penetration resistance, although, curiously not necessarily the safest helmet for road use--unless your regularly riding include race grade speeds.
I've got an old helmet that needs to be retired. I could do some testing, but it would be limited to 9mm and 22lr. However, motorcycle helmets are designed primarily to diffuse force, so I suspect protection would be minimal against a projectile. I could put a small water melon inside the helmet for more realistic testing. I'm not quite sure if that would be funny or macabre. :rolleyes:
Well, I KNOW penetration resistance is part of the testing. It's not guaranteed when you're in an accident you will only impact a flat surface. And, yes, after a few year or after even ONE accident, a helmet must be retired.
Does that mean I should use the water melon or not? :thumbup:
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Re: SHTF...do you really need a helmet?

#14 Post by CottonMcKnight77 » Thu Sep 28, 2017 4:00 pm

MaxWyatt wrote:
YankeeTarheel wrote:We saw all those alt-right militias in C'ville. Pretend soldiers.

Motorcycle helmets are designed for both impact and penetration protection. Will it stop a .223 round? Probably not, not even the kevlar ones. But the Snell Rating on MC helmets is probably the best indicator of penetration resistance, although, curiously not necessarily the safest helmet for road use--unless your regularly riding include race grade speeds.
I've got an old helmet that needs to be retired. I could do some testing, but it would be limited to 9mm and 22lr. However, motorcycle helmets are designed primarily to diffuse force, so I suspect protection would be minimal against a projectile. I could put a small water melon inside the helmet for more realistic testing. I'm not quite sure if that would be funny or macabre. :rolleyes:
Sounds like funny and macabretastic! You should totally do this experiment and post the results here. For science.
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Re: SHTF...do you really need a helmet?

#15 Post by YankeeTarheel » Thu Sep 28, 2017 4:15 pm

CottonMcKnight77 wrote:
MaxWyatt wrote:
YankeeTarheel wrote:We saw all those alt-right militias in C'ville. Pretend soldiers.

Motorcycle helmets are designed for both impact and penetration protection. Will it stop a .223 round? Probably not, not even the kevlar ones. But the Snell Rating on MC helmets is probably the best indicator of penetration resistance, although, curiously not necessarily the safest helmet for road use--unless your regularly riding include race grade speeds.
I've got an old helmet that needs to be retired. I could do some testing, but it would be limited to 9mm and 22lr. However, motorcycle helmets are designed primarily to diffuse force, so I suspect protection would be minimal against a projectile. I could put a small water melon inside the helmet for more realistic testing. I'm not quite sure if that would be funny or macabre. :rolleyes:
Sounds like funny and macabretastic! You should totally do this experiment and post the results here. For science.
Don't think a watermelon will fit unless you have a REALLY big head! A honey-dew melon or large cantaloupe might fit better. It's a lot less macabre than a fake head filled with fake blood and brains! Again, not sure the force of 150-200 pound head hitting something rather pointy at 150mph versus a 9mm at 1200 fps hitting it. Something to do with mass * velocity, I think.
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Re: SHTF...do you really need a helmet?

#16 Post by MaxWyatt » Thu Sep 28, 2017 4:21 pm

YankeeTarheel wrote:
Don't think a watermelon will fit unless you have a REALLY big head! A honey-dew melon or large cantaloupe might fit better. It's a lot less macabre than a fake head filled with fake blood and brains! Again, not sure the force of 150-200 pound head hitting something rather pointy at 150mph versus a 9mm at 1200 fps hitting it. Something to do with mass * velocity, I think.
Honey dew. Good idea, and much easier to find than a small water melon. This test will be somewhat less than scientifically valid, but the fun factor should more than make up for it. :bananadance:
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Re: SHTF...do you really need a helmet?

#17 Post by YankeeTarheel » Thu Sep 28, 2017 4:28 pm

MaxWyatt wrote:
YankeeTarheel wrote:
Don't think a watermelon will fit unless you have a REALLY big head! A honey-dew melon or large cantaloupe might fit better. It's a lot less macabre than a fake head filled with fake blood and brains! Again, not sure the force of 150-200 pound head hitting something rather pointy at 150mph versus a 9mm at 1200 fps hitting it. Something to do with mass * velocity, I think.
Honey dew. Good idea, and much easier to find than a small water melon. This test will be somewhat less than scientifically valid, but the fun factor should more than make up for it. :bananadance:
Be sure to video it! :shoot2:
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Re: SHTF...do you really need a helmet?

#18 Post by MaxWyatt » Thu Sep 28, 2017 4:34 pm

YankeeTarheel wrote: Be sure to video it! :shoot2:
I will.
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Re: SHTF...do you really need a helmet?

#19 Post by SwampGrouch » Thu Sep 28, 2017 5:49 pm

You just don't want anyone else rockin' a spiffy pickelhaube when it all goes down.
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Re: SHTF...do you really need a helmet?

#20 Post by dpfeifer » Thu Sep 28, 2017 6:18 pm

If I were to invest in anything of the sort, it'd be a back plate to stick in my backpack. My carefully thought out plan for this situation involves me running away from people shooting.
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Re: SHTF...do you really need a helmet?

#21 Post by richardw » Thu Sep 28, 2017 8:43 pm

JColville wrote:A video suggestion pops up in my YouTube feed with some guy giving his top 5 helmets for your SHTF BoB.
On my second and third tours in Nam I was in recon battalion. We never wore helmets. We did LRRPs (long range reconnaissance patrols that could keep us out for week. Helmets were rejected because the weight to protection ratio made it a no brained.

Re the idiotic advice one can get on YouTube, it means the viewer ought to always check the credentials of the presenter. So many frauds there that much of the advice is bogus.

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Re: SHTF...do you really need a helmet?

#22 Post by Hiker » Thu Sep 28, 2017 8:55 pm

IMHO, a military style helmet is a "shoot me first", "let's get that military person to help us", "let's follow that military person" kind of thing. If I lived in a militia compound, it would be OK, but not in civilian area.
Since I am retired, I don't spend much time in tall buildings anymore. So avoiding things falling on my head is not as much of a problem. If i did work in a tall bldg again, I might go for a cheap motorcycle helmet in my desk drawer, but just a plain ol construction worker hard hat seems like the least attention getting head protection.

And now that you've got you fancy helmet, please keep in mind that the ground is covered in nails, screws, and jagged pieces of metal and glass. Do you have full steel shank boots?
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Re: SHTF...do you really need a helmet?

#23 Post by Buck13 » Sat Oct 21, 2017 6:27 pm

dpfeifer wrote:If I were to invest in anything of the sort, it'd be a back plate to stick in my backpack. My carefully thought out plan for this situation involves me running away from people shooting.
:thumbup:
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Re: SHTF...do you really need a helmet?

#24 Post by SubRosa » Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:34 pm

Well, you'll need something to piss in....

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Re: SHTF...do you really need a helmet?

#25 Post by YankeeTarheel » Sat Oct 21, 2017 9:12 pm

I just realized: If your SHTF vehicle is a motorcycle then you DEFINITELY want a helmet, armored boots, shin, knee, elbow and shoulder pads. Kevlar pants (Draggin Jeans) would also be good.

I'm not thinking bullets but all the stuff you may run into.
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