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YankeeTarheel wrote:
I gather that most drum mags are unreliable, prone to jamming and breakage, plus they are heavy as hell. But X-15 apparently makes extremely reliable 50 round drums and, now a skeletonized 50-round drum that's also very light and unintrusive, however insanely expensive--like $350.
just like most everything else in the world, if you want a quality product, expect to pay.
i'm retired. what's your excuse?

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Does diazepam cause aggression? We explain the dangers of the powerful and highly-addictive anti-anxiety drug prescribed to Las Vegas shooter Stephen Paddock

"In the wake of the devastating shooting in Las Vegas, it has emerged that gunman Stephen Paddock was taking diazepam, the generic form of Valium.

The revelation has sparked a debate surrounding the powerful anti-anxiety medication and its side effects.

For the majority of users who take the medication under close supervision, side effects are akin to alcohol: drowsiness, dizziness, memory issues, and even sexual dysfunction.

However, in some rare cases the drug can trigger suicidal thoughts, aggressiveness, panic attacks, impulsive thoughts, and a lack of empathy.

On Wednesday, as the Twittersphere rushed to attribute Paddock's shooting spree to his medication, doctors cautioned that it is highly unlikely - if not impossible - for diazepam alone to drive a person to shoot more than 500 people.

But the debate has thrown the anti-anxiety medication into the spotlight - with many questioning the regulation of prescriptions.

'Aggression is one of the side effects in rare cases,' Dr Daniel Amen, a psychiatrist at Amen Clinics in Chicago, told Daily Mail Online.

Dr Amen, a staunch critic of medication to treat psychiatric disorders, admitted that it is not common side effect - the common side effects are drowsiness, grogginess.

'But like alcohol,' he said, 'for the vulnerable brain it can cause aggression.'"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/artic ... aking.html

Las Vegas Strip shooter prescribed anti-anxiety drug in June

"Stephen Paddock, who killed at least 58 people and wounded hundreds more in Las Vegas on Sunday with high-powered rifles, was prescribed an anti-anxiety drug in June that can lead to aggressive behavior, the Las Vegas Review-Journal has learned.

Records from the Nevada Prescription Monitoring Program obtained Tuesday show Paddock was prescribed 50 10-milligram diazepam tablets by Henderson physician Dr. Steven Winkler on June 21.

A woman who answered the phone at Winkler’s office would not make him available to answer questions and would neither confirm nor deny that Paddock was ever a patient.

Paddock purchased the drug — its brand name is Valium — without insurance at a Walgreens store in Reno on the same day it was prescribed. He was supposed to take one pill a day.

Diazepam is a sedative-hypnotic drug in the class of drugs known as benzodiazepines, which studies have shown can trigger aggressive behavior. Chronic use or abuse of sedatives such as diazepam can also trigger psychotic experiences, according to drugabuse.com.

‘They can become aggressive’

“If somebody has an underlying aggression problem and you sedate them with that drug, they can become aggressive,” said Dr. Mel Pohl, chief medical officer of the Las Vegas Recovery Center. “It can disinhibit an underlying emotional state. … It is much like what happens when you give alcohol to some people … they become aggressive instead of going to sleep.”

Pohl, who spoke to the Review-Journal from the Netherlands, said the effects of the drug also can be magnified by alcohol.

A 2015 study published in World Psychiatry of 960 Finnish adults and teens convicted of homicide showed that their odds of killing were 45 percent higher during time periods when they were on benzodiazepines.

A year earlier, the Australian and New Zealand Journal of Psychiatry published a study titled, “Benzodiazepine Use and Aggressive Behavior.” The authors wrote: “It appears that benzodiazepine use is moderately associated with subsequent aggressive behavior.”

Dr. Michael First, a clinical psychiatry professor at Columbia University and expert on benzodiazepines, said the Finnish study speaks for itself. But he also told the Review-Journal on Tuesday that he believes the drugs would be more likely to fuel impulsive aggression than premeditated behavior.

“What this man in Las Vegas did was very planned,” he noted, referring to reports that Paddock sneaked an arsenal of weapons into the Mandalay Bay and placed cameras inside and outside his room before launching his attack.

Why was it prescribed?

First said it would be important to discover why Paddock was prescribed the drug.

“That may have more to do with why he did what he did,” First said.

The Nevada state monitoring report also noted that Winkler prescribed 50 10-milligram tablets of diazepam to Paddock in 2016. He also filled that prescription the day it was written, this time at Evergreen Drugs in Henderson. It was for two tablets a day.

Questions have long swirled around whether psychiatric drugs are linked to mass school shootings in the United States, though researchers have yet to find a definitive connections, despite several studies.

Critics of unscientific linkage in the news media and on social media between psychiatric drugs and violence say it stigmatizes those who benefit from their use. That, in turn, can make people quit using medications that can actually be lifesavers, they say.

On Monday, actress Kirstie Alley, best known for her role in the TV sitcom “Cheers,” stirred controversy by tweeting that guns and psychiatric drugs are the common denominators in recent mass shootings in the United States. She cited no evidence that Paddock has used the drugs."

https://www.reviewjournal.com/local/the ... g-in-june/
Last edited by SilasSoule on Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:26 am, edited 2 times in total.
"When and if fascism comes to America... it will be called, of course, ‘Americanism'." - Halford Luccock
"Liberty without socialism is privilege and injustice. Socialism without liberty is slavery and brutality."
— Mikhail Bakunin

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After Las Vegas mass shooting, 'bump stock' is hot at gun stores

"For more than a year, the Georgia Gun Store in Gainesville, Georgia, had no requests for a "bump stock" – an accessory that transforms a semi-automatic rifle into a weapon capable of firing hundreds of rounds a minute.

But following Sunday's mass shooting in Las Vegas, the shop fielded several calls from customers asking about the product, apparently out of concern that lawmakers may outlaw it. The store's owner, Kellie Weeks, said several distributors were out of stock when she called them seeking supplies.

"Anybody that wants to get them is probably just worried that they're going to be banned," said Weeks.

Authorities say the shooter, Stephen Paddock, had 12 rifles outfitted with bump stocks among the arsenal of weapons in his hotel room, and audio of the attack suggested he used weapons with rapid-fire capabilities.

The increased interest in bump stocks echoed the spike in gun sales that often follows a high-profile mass shooting, as gun owners become concerned about stiffer gun control laws. Gun company stocks rose in market trading following Sunday's attack.

Democratic U.S. Senator Dianne Feinstein introduced a bill on Wednesday that would outlaw bump stocks and other devices that, as she put it, "easily and cheaply modify legal weapons into what are essentially machine guns.""

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/10/05/after-v ... tores.html
"When and if fascism comes to America... it will be called, of course, ‘Americanism'." - Halford Luccock
"Liberty without socialism is privilege and injustice. Socialism without liberty is slavery and brutality."
— Mikhail Bakunin

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SilasSoule wrote: 'But like alcohol,' he said, 'for the vulnerable brain it can cause aggression.'"
considering what i've just experienced with blood pressure meds, this strikes me as very plausible.
and yes, it's interesting how focused the media discussion here is on the gun control argument. lots and lots of other implications not being covered.

interesting side effects, from: https://www.drugs.com/sfx/valium-side-effects.html
agitation, confusion, discouragement, false beliefs that cannot be changed by facts, feeling that others are watching you or controlling your behavior, feeling that others can hear your thoughts, feeling, seeing, or hearing things that are not there, hyperexcitability, outbursts of anger.... wow, just wow.
Last edited by lurker on Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:36 am, edited 2 times in total.
i'm retired. what's your excuse?

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Some examples of right wing hysteria from other sites and a UK link with more detail about shooting than I've found in USA news:
I am hearing there may be an ANTIFA connection. I have seen pictures of the shooter at protests and he was a Hillary supporter, it appears.
There is not any conspiracy, only fact, and the fact is nothing adds up, period................
And I will not be surprised if the Left is involved, read any comment section or facebook post and they are
on a warpath! It to me is strangely arranged to stir up all the views expressed and voiced that the Left spout off about...................
Come on, a 64 year old white millionaire sitting in a room with 25 guns, shooting what is probably conservative patrons, having who knows how
many rounds with him.................
Wake up folks!
None of this adds up. 64 year old millionaire that owns a plane and several homes. His brother said he only owned couple of handguns police confiscated 23 weapons in one home and 19 in the other. Not including what he had in the room. "No military training... No weapons training... No weapon Armor training... No Police Record... No Radical Background... "Philippine Girlfriend" that deleted her social media accounts the day before this tragedy, and left the country.
So he purchased his own weapons. Altered them to fire full auto. Stockpiled them in an expensive hotel room in broad daylight, and nothing looked strange by housekeeping or the thousands of cameras in Vegas??? Built two platforms for two windows to assist in his firing position. Fired from inside the window. Setting off smoke alarms. But, not allowing a muzzle flash to be seen outside of the window. Plus he placed closed circuit TV to see the hallway outside of his door. He did all this by himself. No training, using black opps, mercenary, or sniper techniques.... You tell me, if this doesn't smell like a political scandal by the democrats n liberals crying gun control ALL THE TIME. I don't think we're that stupid. This guy was a pawn, and I'm not buying the story they're telling...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -room.html
"Being Republican is more than a difference of opinion - it's a character flaw." "COVID can fix STUPID!"
The greatest, most aggrieved mistake EVER made in USA was electing DJT as POTUS.

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Drug given to Paddock calms some, provokes others, experts say

"The anti-anxiety drug prescribed to Stephen Paddock less than four months before his horrific onslaught in Las Vegas is often consumed by marksmen to calm their nerves and steady their aim.

But that same drug — diazepam — also was prescribed for John Hinckley Jr. before his attempted assassination of President Ronald Reagan in 1981. Washington, D.C., attorney Paul Kamenar said Wednesday that he believes diazepam aggravated Hinckley’s mental illness and “actually contributed to his dangerous propensity.”

The Jekyll-and-Hyde reactions to the drug, more commonly known under the trade name Valium, are well understood, according to both Dr. Denis Patterson, a board-certified pain medicine specialist based in Reno, and Dr. Mel Pohl, chief medical officer at the Las Vegas Recovery Center.

Pohl pointed out that all sorts of drugs cause paradoxical reactions. Manufacturers themselves acknowledge that fact through TV ads that warn antidepressants “may cause suicidal thoughts in some patients.”"

---

"“He might have had a tumor like Charles Whitman,” he said. “We need to know as much as we possibly can.”

In 1966, Whitman became infamous as the “Texas Tower Sniper.” Like Paddock, he killed innocent people while high above them.

After murderering his mother and wife, he went inside a tower at the University of Texas, Austin and killed three people there. Then he went to the tower’s 28th floor and shot down onto the campus, killing an additional 11 people while wounding 31 others before being killed by police.

An autopsy later found that Whitman, who wanted his brain to be tested after his death because he had irrational thoughts, had a cancerous brain tumor. There still is much debate as to what role, if any, it played in his behavior."

https://www.reviewjournal.com/local/the ... perts-say/
"When and if fascism comes to America... it will be called, of course, ‘Americanism'." - Halford Luccock
"Liberty without socialism is privilege and injustice. Socialism without liberty is slavery and brutality."
— Mikhail Bakunin

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Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?
Warning: The use or possession of marijuana remains unlawful under Federal law regardless of whether it has been legalized or
decriminalized for medicinal or recreational purposes in the state where you reside.
from the 4473.

As long as you're not addicted, a lawful user of Valium is just fine, but not a lawful pot user. Go figure.

CDFingers
Crazy cat peekin' through a lace bandana
like a one-eyed Cheshire, like a diamond-eyed Jack

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The media keeps calling this the deadliest mass shooting in America. It is the deadliest in this century, but not in American History. Why are these being ignored by the media?The problem is the big mass shooting in the US history have mainly been minorities. In the 19th Century it was mainly against Native Americans, women and children weren’t spared, In the 20 century in was mainly Blacks, although there were also mass killing of labor strikers. In both eras the people doing the killing were sometimes supported by the police and/or militia. Also with the previous large mass killings it was not done by one person, until Charles Whitman in 1966 at the University of Texas.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/ame ... mg00000009

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludlow_Massacre

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Whitman
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

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No, gun silencers wouldn't have worsened the Las Vegas shooting
Hillary Clinton suggested gun silencers would have worsened the Las Vegas attack in a tweet.

It’s certainly possible that silencers or suppressors could make some shootings worse than they would be otherwise. But the specifics of the Las Vegas shooting don’t fit that scenario. Experts told us it’s highly unlikely a silencer would have made the Las Vegas shooting even more deadly, because of the distance of the shooter from the crowds and because of the crowded, urban environment where the victims were targeted.
We rate this statement False.
sbɐɯ ʎʇıɔɐdɐɔ pɹɐpuɐʇs ɟo ןןnɟ ǝɟɐs
ɯɯ6 bdd ɹǝɥʇןɐʍ
13ʞ
"ǝuıqɹɐɔ 1ɐ4ɯ" dɯɐʇsןןoɹ --- ɯoɔos0269ǝן ʇןoɔ
"ǝuıqɹɐɔ ʇuǝɯǝɔɹoɟuǝ ʍɐן sʇןoɔ" dɯɐʇsןןoɹ --- 0269ǝן ʇןoɔ
(béɟ) 59-pɯɐ

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Watched the daily press briefing yesterday, the Sheriff feels that Paddock had an accomplice, but didn't drop any names. He restated that this doesn't follow the usual pattern for mass shooters and it's going to take a long time to complete the investigation. About 100 LV Police, 100 FBI agents, plus ATF are working the case. The FBI SAC was tight lipped, he's not letting out any information.

The Sheriff is an elected official overseeing the LV Metro Police that patrols most of Clark County. The current sheriff is a Republican and the county commission is all Democratic. Most of the LV Strip is in unincorporated areas of Clark County, not in the City of Las Vegas.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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LGBTGunner wrote:
wanzer777 wrote:Ugh god. how stupid can these people get? sure lets ban bump stocks and when someone comes along with a semi auto again? sure ban that, ban everything until the mass murderers are using fertilizer bombs then lets ban the fucking fertilizer..... oooops that'll kill off billions in starvation when coupled with global warming.

people it's called earth, it's a planet swimming in hydrocarbons. there is always going to be an easy way to kill dozens of people and humans are clever enough to figure it out.

You can make explosives with your piss, some trees and a rock. and the recipe is everywhere.
The game is called incrementalism. The counter is to ask them for a list of ALL the laws they want. I did a debate in college with my interlocutor saying nobody needs 100 round magazines.

MY rebuttal was to ask her what the legal limit she thought would be appropriate. Her answer was 11 rounds. I chastised her to a point of near harassment (in the debate) by asking why she did not say "nobody needs 11 rounds."

She tried to come back with if you cannot hit what you are shooting at with 10 round then your should not have a gun line. At that point I explained to her that if that was the case, the police would not be able to be armed nor the military.

The trick to deal with these people is to flesh out their ideas.


Yes, I am a dick. But I am a coldly logical dick.
There is nothing dickish about cold logic. proceed.
In Solidarity.

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The video poker machines that Stephen Paddock liked were the ones that did not draw attention. They had few look-at-me flashing lights or listen-to-me bells. He would sit in front of them for hours, often wagering more than $100 a hand. The way he played — instinctually, decisively, calculatingly, silently, with little movement beyond his shifting eyes and nimble fingers — meant he could play several hundred hands an hour.

Casino hosts knew him well. “Not a lot of smiles and friendliness,” said John Weinreich, who was an executive casino host at the Atlantis Casino Resort Spa in Reno, Nev., where Mr. Paddock was once a regular and where he met his girlfriend. “There was not a lot of body movement except for his hands.” His methodical style and his skill level allowed him to gamble, and occasionally win, tens of thousands of dollars in one sitting, collecting payouts and hotel perks in big bunches. Last week, as a reward for his loyalty and gambling, Mr. Paddock stayed free of charge on the 32nd floor in one of the elite suites of the Mandalay Bay Resort and Casino, one of his favorite places to play.

On Sunday night, using an arsenal of rifles he secretly shuttled in and shooting through windows he broke, Mr. Paddock, 64, sprayed gunfire into a concert crowd across South Las Vegas Boulevard. When it was over, 58 people were dead, plus Mr. Paddock, who killed himself in the room as police teams moved in. About 500 were injured by bullets or in the panic to escape the barrage. That the attack was launched from a glassy tower of one of Las Vegas’s most prestigious casinos was not a coincidence. A defining aspect of Mr. Paddock’s life involved gambling, and he hungered for the kinds of rewards that only the Las Vegas Strip could provide. Just three days before he opened fire from the Mandalay Bay, he was seen playing video poker in its casino.

Mr. Paddock was not widely known among the city’s serious gamblers, operating at a level below the highest rollers. He was not a whale, the term used for the biggest gamblers. But placing bets of $100 or more in video poker, “this guy was gambling high,” said Anthony Curtis, a former professional gambler and currently the owner and publisher of Las Vegas Advisor, a website covering the casino business. Mr. Paddock once owned and managed an apartment complex near Dallas, and he has been described by some as a wealthy retiree. People who knew him were under the impression that he was a profitable gambler, or that he at least won often enough to make his casino lifestyle worthwhile.

According to a person who has reviewed Mr. Paddock’s gambling history, and who requested anonymity because the information was part of an active police investigation, dozens of “currency transaction reports,” which casinos must send the federal government for transactions greater than $10,000, were filed in Mr. Paddock’s name. Mr. Paddock had six-figure credit lines at casinos that afforded him the chance to make big sums in long sit-down sessions, and he was known as someone who always paid his accounts. His rooms were often comped, meaning given to him free, including this past weekend at Mandalay Bay, according to the person familiar with his history.

He was there to play, not to party. The night before the shooting, Mr. Paddock made two complaints to the hotel about noise coming from his downstairs neighbors: Albert Garzon, a restaurant owner visiting from San Diego, and his wife and friends. Mr. Garzon, who was staying in 31-135, directly beneath Mr. Paddock, said security guards knocked on his door around 1:30 a.m. on Sunday and asked him to turn down his music, country songs. When he asked where the complaint was coming from, pointing out that the nearest rooms on either side were far away, the security guard said, “It’s the guest above you.” They turned the music down, but had another visit from different security guards half an hour later. The man had called to complain again. Mr. Garzon turned the music off. It wasn’t until the early hours of Monday that Mr. Garzon realized Mr. Paddock had been the complainer. “I looked up and I could see his curtain flapping in the wind,” he said.

At the Atlantis in Reno, Mr. Paddock would often move to a machine when somebody using it got up to take a break. “That would annoy people and he did not seem to care at all,” Mr. Weinreich said. “He acted like ‘these machines are for me.’” Mr. Paddock was also a “starer,” Mr. Weinreich said. “He loved to stare at other people playing,” he said. “It was not a good thing because it would make other VIPs in the high-limit area uncomfortable.” “One of my guests once said to me, ‘He really gives me the creeps.’” At Mandalay Bay, Mr. Paddock played the video poker machines located in a relatively quiet room labeled “High Limit Slots,” set aside from the jangly machines on the vast casino floor. The room has its own attendants, working behind a desk, and its own restrooms, to keep gamblers close.

The relative anonymity fit his personality in many ways — a solitary pursuit that exercised his calculating mind. “He was a math guy,” Eric Paddock, his youngest brother, said. “He could tell you off the top of his head what the odds were down to a tenth of a percent on whatever machine he was playing. He studied it like it was a Ph.D. thing. It was not silly gambling. It was work.” Video poker receives less attention than poker at the tables, which has garnered fame and riches for those who compete in tournaments such as the World Series of Poker. Video poker shares some of the same parameters — players looking for winning combinations of cards, from pairs and full houses to straights and flushes. But it is a vastly different game. “Video poker is the crack cocaine of gambling,” Mr. Curtis said.

There are no opponents. There is no bluffing or worrying about competitors’ hands. Generally, five cards are drawn from a refreshed 52-card virtual deck — instantly on the video screen — and players decide which ones to “hold,” or keep, and which ones to exchange for new cards. Players calculate the possibilities remaining in the 47 other cards. A pair of jacks or better might earn the bet back, a “wash” for the player. A royal flush might pay 400 times the bet — perhaps a $50,000 payout on a $125 wager. For experts like Mr. Paddock, who had played the game for 25 years, his brother said, each hand required only a few seconds of time. Ten hands could be played in a minute. The computer kept track of the financial tally. It is a game of coldly calculated probabilities, played without hunches or emotion.

“Gut feel has nothing to do with it,” said Bob Dancer, a professional video poker player in Las Vegas who has written 10 books on the subject. “If I have a feeling that says, ‘I’m going for another heart,’ then I will lie down until the feeling goes away.” The top machines at Mandalay Bay pay out 99.17 percent, or $99.17 for every $100 wagered, according to Mr. Curtis. If Mr. Paddock did wind up a net loser, those losses could be offset, in part, by comps, or “kickback rewards,” essentially free money casinos give loyal customers to gamble with. The more that players play, the more they earn in comps. And casinos offer an ever-changing menu of promotions that can cut the expected losses a fraction further. “If you get close to 100 percent — that’s where he gambled,” Eric Paddock said. “It’s not just the machine. It’s the comps, it’s the room. It’s the 50-year-old port that costs $500 a glass. You add all that stuff together and his net is better than 100 percent.”

Those types of perks were one reason Mr. Paddock drove nearly 90 minutes from his home in Mesquite, Nev., to Las Vegas for high-stakes gambling. He also visited Mesquite’s more modest casinos, but was not known for gambling big sums there. “Paddock did not play at a level of significance with us,” Andre Carrier, chief operating officer of Eureka Casino Resort in Mesquite, said in an email. “From all of my discussion with my colleagues it appears Paddock existed in our casino as he did in his neighborhood: as someone not well known by anyone.” He was better known around a few high-limit rooms of the Las Vegas Strip, including at Mandalay Bay and the Wynn Las Vegas. In May, Mr. Paddock invited his brother Eric and his nephew, who is in his 20s, to a weekend at Wynn, where he had achieved “Chairman’s Club” status, his brother said. They feasted on expensive sushi and saw a show. Mr. Paddock said his brother had seen it so many times that he noticed that one of the performers was an alternate.

In 2012, Mr. Paddock sued the owner of The Cosmopolitan of Las Vegas, a resort and casino on the Strip, for negligence, saying that he “slipped and fell on an obstruction on the floor” while he was a customer there in 2011, resulting in $30,600 in medical expenses. The owner of The Cosmopolitan disputed many of Mr. Paddock’s allegations, and a judge dismissed the lawsuit in 2014, according to court records. Mr. Paddock also had a home in Reno, where he played at the Atlantis. There he met Marilou Danley, his girlfriend, when she worked enlisting gamblers to sign up for frequent-customer cards, before she became a high-limit slot hostess, said Mr. Weinreich. Mr. Weinreich noted that Mr. Paddock was generally hard to discern. “He was pretty statuesque in that he was stoic and stern,” he said.

Mr. Paddock gambled as he lived, his brother said — methodically, always weighing the odds. He was cautious and liked to plan ahead, Eric Paddock said, and didn’t like leaving things to chance. He always carried two cellphones, each with a different carrier, in case one network was down. Mr. Paddock was in the high-limit room at Mandalay Bay last Thursday night, playing a machine that allowed him to bet $100 with each deal of the virtual cards. Nearby, another customer hit a big hand and rose excitedly from his chair. He recalled how his enthusiasm caused Mr. Paddock to pause and turn. “What’d you hit?” Mr. Paddock asked. “A royal flush,” the man said. “Good job,” Mr. Paddock replied. And he went back to playing.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/04/us/s ... bling.html
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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Las Vegas gunman had been prescribed the psychotropic medication diazepam. “…in some rare cases the drug can trigger suicidal thoughts, aggressiveness, panic attacks, impulsive thoughts, and a lack of empathy.” http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/artic ... aking.html

Other mass shooters on psychotropic medications

Joseph T. Wesbecker shot 20 workers at Standard Gravure Corp. in Louisville, Kentucky in 1989, killing nine. He was taking Prozac. https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/ ... b34d18fb6/

Patrick Purdy murdered five children and wounded 30 in Stockton, California in 1989. Purdy had been on the anti-psychotic drug Thorazine. http://www.sactownmag.com/December-Janu ... iarticle=2

Eric Harris, who with schoolmate Dylan Klebold killed 12 students and a teacher and wounded 24 others as Columbine High School in April 1999, had been taking Luvox. http://extras.denverpost.com/news/shot0504e.htm

In 2005, 16-year-old Jeff Weise shot and killed nine people and wounded five others in Red Lake, Minnesota before killing himself. Weise had been taking Prozac. http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/26/us/fa ... tings.html

Staff Sgt. Robert Bales, who killed 15 innocent civilians in Afghanistan in March of 2012, was being treated with unspecified anti-depressants. https://www.thedailybeast.com/military- ... bert-bales

Aurora movie theater shooter James Holmes killed 12 people and wounded 58 in the July 20, 2012, tragedy in Aurora, Colorado. Police found the anti-anxiety drug clonazepam and the anti-depressant sertraline in his apartment. http://articles.latimes.com/2013/apr/04 ... s-20130405

2013 Navy Yard shooter Aaron Alexis had been prescribed Trazodone. https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... story.html

In 2014, Ivan Lopez, a soldier at Ft. Hood, Texas, opened fire on fellow soldiers, killing three and wounding sixteen. He was taking “prescription medication” for mental health issues. http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nationa ... -1.1744315

Unknown but likely

Seung Hui Cho killed 32 Virginia Tech students and wounded 17 others in 2007. He was taken to a mental health facility by police in 2005 and ruled an “imminent danger”, but it is still unclear what medications he was taking. http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=3052278&page=1

Adam Lanza, who killed twenty students and six adults at Sandy Hook Elementary School on December 14, 2012 in Newtown, Connecticut, had reportedly been treated by mental health professionals, but information about his treatment was withheld from the public report. https://www.cchrint.org/2013/11/27/sand ... heres-why/

2016 Orlando, Florida Pulse nightclub gunman Omar Mateen told an acquaintance that he had been up all night doing research on anti-psychosis medications. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-flor ... SKCN0Z82LH He also discussed medication with a friend in a phone call during the attack. http://edition.cnn.com/2016/06/17/us/or ... index.html
"When and if fascism comes to America... it will be called, of course, ‘Americanism'." - Halford Luccock
"Liberty without socialism is privilege and injustice. Socialism without liberty is slavery and brutality."
— Mikhail Bakunin

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Gun enthusiasts looking for an extra thrill have long found makeshift ways to replicate the exhilaration of using an automatic weapon — the thrill of the noise and the jolt of rapid-fire rounds — while bypassing the legal hassle and expense of getting one. They contrived devices using pieces of wood, belt loops and sometimes even rubber bands, to mimic the speed of a fully automatic weapon — even if it meant sacrificing accuracy. Then came Jeremiah Cottle with an answer. A Texas farm boy turned Air Force veteran, he figured he could do better. He sank $120,000 of his savings into the development of a high-end bump stock, a device that harnessed a rifle’s recoil to fire hundreds of rounds a minute.

He began selling his bump stocks in 2010 with the help of his wife and grandparents in Moran, Tex., his small hometown of fewer than 300 residents. His company, Slide Fire Solutions, won approval from federal firearms regulators, and the business moved from a portable building that had once been a dog kennel into a much larger space on the Cottle family farm. Sales exceeded $10 million and 35,000 units in the first year. “We literally made our first million in a doghouse,” Mr. Cottle told The Albany News of Texas in 2011.

Interest in his products, and in similar stocks from other companies, suddenly surged after Sunday when Stephen Paddock, equipped with a small arsenal of weapons that included a dozen rifles outfitted with bump stocks, massacred dozens of people and injured hundreds in Las Vegas. The distinct, jagged sound of the rifles has haunted newscasts for days. Before long, retailers like Walmart and Cabela’s pulled bump stocks from their websites. Some gun owners, fearing an imminent crackdown, flooded social media looking to buy them. Lawmakers, including Republicans in Congress, have called for bump stocks to be banned. The National Rifle Association said in a statement on Thursday that it “believes that devices designed to allow semiautomatic rifles to function like fully-automatic rifles should be subject to additional regulations.”

Slide Fire — which boasts on its website that it “revolutionized recreational shooting” — soon ran out of stock and stopped taking orders. Mr. Cottle did not respond to multiple requests for comment, but said in an interview with Ammoland last year that highly regulated firearms like machine guns require “a mountain of paperwork sure to give you life-threatening paper cuts.” But bump stocks, he said, can help a semiautomatic firearm recreate the adrenaline-inducing power of an automatic weapon. “Some people like drag racing, some people like skiing and some people, like me, love full auto,” he told Ammoland. Fiercely protective of his creation, Mr. Cottle has repeatedly — and successfully — sued competitors for patent infringement. But before this week, the product remained largely obscure except in certain gun enthusiast circles. “It was only ever a niche product to begin with — it was a tiny component of the industry that wasn’t really well known,” said Rommel Dionisio, managing director at Aegis Capital. “It was never a significant seller.”

The AR-15 rifle and similar weapons — Mr. Paddock at least three such firearms in his hotel room — were banned under federal law from 1994 until 2004, when Congress allowed the ban to expire. Outfitting the AR-15 soon became “one of the fastest-growing segments of the firearms market,” Mr. Dionisio said. “It’s considered the Mr. Potato Head of firearms, because you can put a lot of different accessories on it — barrels, sound suppressors, scopes and more,” he said. “The accessories market exploded.” Equipment, apparel and supplies constitute 12.8 percent of the $2.5 billion online gun and ammunition industry, with ammunition, handguns and long guns making up the rest, according to IBISWorld, a market research firm. Slide Fire sells online and also through a retail network that, within 11 months of starting business, included 500 outlets, according to The Albany News. Mr. Cottle joined the military at 19 and was in the Air Force for nine years, attaining the rank of staff sergeant. He was involved in the Bosnia and Kosovo conflicts, and medically retired from the military after developing meningitis and encephalitis, he told The Abilene Reporter-News in 2006.

Back in Texas, while out shooting with a friend, Mr. Cottle was frustrated with his weapon’s firing speed, according to The Albany News. He crafted a prototype bump stock out of wood and metal in two hours. Mr. Cottle saw an opportunity. He sent a production model to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives and, in June 2010, received a letter in response saying that the company’s bump stock product “is a firearm part and is not regulated as a firearm under the Gun Control Act or the National Firearms Act.” The letter noted that the stock “has no automatically functioning mechanical parts or springs and performs no automatic mechanical function when installed.” It also mentioned that Mr. Cottle’s letter had described the bump stock as “intended to assist persons whose hands have limited mobility to ‘bump-fire’ an AR-15 type rifle.” The A.T.F. declined to comment on Thursday. On Sept. 16, the agency decided that the AutoGlove — a gauntlet with a battery-powered, motorized trigger finger than can allow its wearer to fire 1,000 rounds per minute — could not be used or possessed by individuals. The company issued refunds to all of its customers soon after, according to a cached version of its website.

Slide Fire’s product “grants shooters the freedom of controlled rapid fire without compromising the safety of themselves or others around them,” according to the company’s website. Mr. Cottle has appeared on YouTube promoting his bump stocks, priced from $140 to $300. But the internet also abounds with tutorials on how to gin up homemade versions of the accessory using belt loops and rubber bands. On YouTube, videos show AR-15 rifles equipped with 3D-printed bump stocks and “bump boards” made of wood. Mr. Cottle is listed as an inventor on several slide-action stock patents and has doggedly defended his products against copycats. “The technology sets our company apart,” Mr. Cottle said in a video on the company website. “There is no one that does what we do.”

In 2014, Slide Fire sued Bump Fire, a company selling $99 bump stocks. Slide Fire alleged infringement on eight of its patents, winning a court judgment last year that forced Bump Fire to stop producing and selling stocks that functionally mirror Slide Fire’s products. In early 2014, Slide Fire began an advertising campaign that included billboards with an image of a rifle next to photos of an apple pie and a baseball glove above the phrase “Pure American.” The display represented “the perfect symbolism for the core beliefs we hold here at Slide Fire,” the company said in a blog post. The advocacy group Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense in America asked that one of the billboard, next to a busy Chicago freeway, be taken down. But Lamar Advertising Co. said in a Facebook post that it would “support the First Amendment right of advertisers and believe that it is in the best interest of our company and the communities we serve to accept advertising copy openly.” Back home, Slide Fire is seen as a hometown anchor of sorts. Mr. Cottle hired local residents, including a former teacher and a neighbor, and became a major employer in the area, according to The Albany News. He told the publication that the company’s success was a miracle. “This is beyond a Cinderella story,” he said.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/05/busi ... vator.html
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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SilasSoule wrote:Why was it prescribed?

First said it would be important to discover why Paddock was prescribed the drug.

“That may have more to do with why he did what he did,” First said.

The Nevada state monitoring report also noted that Winkler prescribed 50 10-milligram tablets of diazepam to Paddock in 2016. He also filled that prescription the day it was written, this time at Evergreen Drugs in Henderson. It was for two tablets a day.

Questions have long swirled around whether psychiatric drugs are linked to mass school shootings in the United States, though researchers have yet to find a definitive connections, despite several studies.

Critics of unscientific linkage in the news media and on social media between psychiatric drugs and violence say it stigmatizes those who benefit from their use. That, in turn, can make people quit using medications that can actually be lifesavers, they say.

On Monday, actress Kirstie Alley, best known for her role in the TV sitcom “Cheers,” stirred controversy by tweeting that guns and psychiatric drugs are the common denominators in recent mass shootings in the United States. She cited no evidence that Paddock has used the drugs." https://www.reviewjournal.com/local/the ... g-in-june/
Law enforcement hasn't turned up any motive so far - no suicide note, no manifesto etc.... Medical records and a postmortem could provide some clues, there are a few hundred law enforcement personnel working this case so we're bound to hear more about his health condition and any pharmaceuticals he was taking.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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FlyGuy wrote:I wish I remembered to copy the link of the article or even find it again. But, there was mention that the shooter had in his arsenal a few AR10 rifles. This at least explains why I thought the first sounds where from an AK. A .308 has a very different sound profile than a 5.56 round.

Can anybody back this up?
This WaPo piece suggests the shooter had a number of different calibers available, but so far little seems to be confirmed.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/che ... b52997f3d0
A third weapon, identified as an AK-47 type rifle, was outfitted with a stand to steady it and improve accuracy, said people close to the ongoing probe. Clark County Sheriff Joseph Lombardo said the weapons that have been recovered range in caliber from .223, which is associated with AR-15 style rifles, to .308, which is a caliber commonly used in hunting rifles.
edit...lost a T
Last edited by AndyH on Sat Oct 07, 2017 6:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Arizona man who handed his guns over to police “to stop mass shootings” is a dual American-British citizen. “Pring said he could have pawned the guns for a few thousand dollars, but he hoped to inspire others by giving them up.”

https://www.rawstory.com/2017/10/arizon ... -him-dead/

Was he thinking about shooting someone? I’m sure his guns are safe with the cops – they never shoot anyone.
"When and if fascism comes to America... it will be called, of course, ‘Americanism'." - Halford Luccock
"Liberty without socialism is privilege and injustice. Socialism without liberty is slavery and brutality."
— Mikhail Bakunin

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Another gunman on psych meds?

Gunman in GOP baseball shooting kept storage locker with 200 rounds of ammunition, Steve Scalise's condition improving

"James Hodgkinson visited the unit 43 times between April and the day he opened fire on a field where Republican politicians were practicing for a charity baseball event, assistant FBI director Tim Slater said during a press briefing on Wednesday."

---

"Investigators said it's still not clear what prompted the unemployed Bellville resident to travel from his home in Illinois to the Washington-area where they believe he lived out of his van since March.

Still though, the FBI is confident Hodgkinson acted alone and had no “nexus to terrorism.”

Slater said the 66-year-old was “struggling in all kinds of different ways,” adding Hodgkinson had a “known anger management problem” as well as a troubled marriage, financial issues and “suffered from taking some prescription medication.”"

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nationa ... -1.3265619

Search engines give me nothing on what drugs he was taking or autopsy results.

This is probably why:

Five days later, few details are available in Hodgkinson death, FBI investigation

"James T. Hodgkinson died of multiple gunshot wounds to the torso after congressional police officers shot him, but the medical examiner’s office will not release further details because of privacy laws in the District of Columbia, according to the District of Columbia Office of the Chief Medical Examiner.

The D.C. medical examiner’s office conducted Hodgkinson’s autopsy last week and released the cause and manner of death. Medical examiner reports, such as toxicology or autopsy reports, are kept confidential by law in D.C., according to a spokeswoman for the medical examiner’s office."

http://www.bnd.com/news/local/article156945234.html
Last edited by SilasSoule on Sun Oct 08, 2017 11:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"When and if fascism comes to America... it will be called, of course, ‘Americanism'." - Halford Luccock
"Liberty without socialism is privilege and injustice. Socialism without liberty is slavery and brutality."
— Mikhail Bakunin
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Eris wrote:Let's be sure we aren't demonizing people who take psych meds. Most people who take them are helped by them, not hurt.
no one here is saying they're bad people. i'm saying that some of the side effects of some drugs in some people can cause them to act in antisocial ways. i know this from recent personal experience. i've since talked to two other people who've had or are having the same experience. it's not about good or bad people, it's about dr.s prescribing the right drug for the ailment and without destructive side effects. in my case, there was no follow-up until i (the patient) complained, and if it makes you paranoid, you're unlikely to trust the dr. enough to discuss it.

my experience was this: expecting me to go into surgery in a month, a surgeon prescribes a medication to help control my blood pressure. a nice low dose, side effects are described as rare. within a month i'm noticing episodes of forgetfulness, can't remember words, can't sleep, and i'm unusually emotional, often angry. i was verbally going off on people for trivial little things, imagined slights. couple of other milder effects, all indicating that this is not the right medication for my metabolism. i nearly broke down in tears in the drs' office, and he took me off beta blockers, casually prescribed ace inhibitors.
guess what, completely different side effects. i'm not taking them. did the beta blockers make me a worse person than i had been before? no. they altered my metabolism and hence my thought processes and behavior. could i have become a danger to myself or others? maybe. am i at fault? no, unless i fail to notice or report the changes, and don't insist on getting off the med. it's been 3 weeks, and i'm about back to "normal", whatever that is.
i'm retired. what's your excuse?

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