"Want to Make an Untraceable Handgun at Home? Cody Wilson Can Help."

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"How's that national conversation going?"--Cody Wilson.

Want to Make an Untraceable Handgun at Home? Cody Wilson Can Help. (Archive link.)
"Gun control is not dead, gun control is undead," explains Cody Wilson, the director of Defense Distributed. "We just keep killing it but it keeps coming back."

Wilson, a crypto-anarchist and serial "troublemaker," helped launch the age of the digital gun when he published files showing how to make the Liberator, a 3D-printed pistol, in 2013. It set off a panic in the media and in anti-gun political circles, and the State Department demanded Defense Distributed remove the files from their website.

But five years after the Liberator debut, the technological limitations of homemade firearms have started disappearing. The materials are cheaper and better, the machines are more precise, and the software is more advanced. Groups of hobbyist gun printers started gathering in IRC chats and internet forums, and are working together to make their own gun designs. It's a new reality that hasn't entirely filtered into public debates over gun control.
UK discovers Cody Wilson & Defense Distributed; has bird
The Man Who Scared the World With 3D Printed
New ITAR Regs
Wired writer makes AR-15 receiver via Ghost Gunner...
Cody Wilson offers $15K for MarkForged 3-D CF printer
Ghost Gunner vs. FedEx
Review of Gun Documentary 'No Control' on TTAG
Banning 3D printed guns?
Printed Liberator Style Pistol
Cody Wilson wants you to print your own guns...

Re: "Want to Make an Untraceable Handgun at Home? Cody Wilson Can Help."

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According to Wired, Defense Distributed and SAF prevailed in their lawsuit.
A LANDMARK LEGAL SHIFT OPENS PANDORA’S BOX FOR DIY GUNS
Two months ago, the Department of Justice quietly offered Wilson a settlement to end a lawsuit he and a group of co-plaintiffs have pursued since 2015 against the United States government. Wilson and his team of lawyers focused their legal argument on a free speech claim: They pointed out that by forbidding Wilson from posting his 3-D-printable data, the State Department was not only violating his right to bear arms but his right to freely share information. By blurring the line between a gun and a digital file, Wilson had also successfully blurred the lines between the Second Amendment and the First.

"If code is speech, the constitutional contradictions are evident," Wilson explained to WIRED when he first launched the lawsuit in 2015. "So what if this code is a gun?”

The Department of Justice's surprising settlement, confirmed in court documents earlier this month, essentially surrenders to that argument. It promises to change the export control rules surrounding any firearm below .50 caliber—with a few exceptions like fully automatic weapons and rare gun designs that use caseless ammunition—and move their regulation to the Commerce Department, which won't try to police technical data about the guns posted on the public internet. In the meantime, it gives Wilson a unique license to publish data about those weapons anywhere he chooses.

Re: "Want to Make an Untraceable Handgun at Home? Cody Wilson Can Help."

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Another little part of the settlement may have bigger effects.
Significantly, the government expressly acknowledges that non-automatic firearms up to .50-caliber – including modern semi-auto sporting rifles such as the popular AR-15 and similar firearms – are not inherently military.

Not only is this a First Amendment victory for free speech, it also is a devastating blow to the gun prohibition lobby,” noted SAF founder and Executive Vice President Alan M. Gottlieb. “For years, anti-gunners have contended that modern semi-automatic sport-utility rifles are so-called ‘weapons of war,’ and with this settlement, the government has acknowledged they are nothing of the sort.

“Under this settlement,” he continued, “the government will draft and pursue regulatory amendments that eliminate ITAR control over the technical information at the center of this case. They will transfer export jurisdiction to the Commerce Department, which does not impose prior restraint on public speech. That will allow Defense Distributed and SAF to publish information about 3-D technology.”
http://joshblackman.com/blog/2018/07/10 ... d-lawsuit/
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

Re: "Want to Make an Untraceable Handgun at Home? Cody Wilson Can Help."

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Person opposed to the RKBA on the aftermath.
HOW THE SECOND AMENDMENT TURNED INTO FREEDOM OF INFORMATION THANKS TO 3D PRINTING
Here's the rub, however: There’s nothing we can really do about it now. As much as I’d want to abolish the Second Amendment, in the 21st century, the Second Amendment has become cemented and solidified via the emergence of additive manufacturing (aka 3D printing). In fact, the biggest distributor of 3D-printed weaponry specs, Defense Distributed, just won a major court battle that officially legalizes uploading (and downloading) 3D-printable gun blueprints over the Internet.

Before 3D printing made its way into the consumer mainstream, abolishing the Second Amendment could’ve been easily achieved. Guns and ammunition would instead be exchanged via the black market at a price so high that the vast majority of people wouldn’t be able to afford them. And yet, with 3D printing, gun manufacturing and sales have now entered the same realm as that of film and music exchange via torrents. One’s access to guns is now simply one click away.
What we're talking about here is the conversation of guns transcending from where it originated - the Second Amendment - to a far broader, much more encompassing conversation surrounding our freedom of information. The design, manufacturing, and distribution of guns is no longer limited to material technologies, but has instead transformed into an informational technology as a whole.

Re: "Want to Make an Untraceable Handgun at Home? Cody Wilson Can Help."

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Regardless of how anyone feels about 3D printing and firearms, the Genie is out of the Bottle. Society cannot 'unlearn' how to print guns anymore than we can collectively unlearn how to create fission weapons.

The current crude level of printed guns will evolve very rapidly. Currently, the hobbyist crowd can only print in some version of thermoform or epoxy plastic, but home resin is coming, as are resin ceramics. These have many of the characteristics of metal.

We cannot 'unlearn' printed guns.
Image

Re: "Want to Make an Untraceable Handgun at Home? Cody Wilson Can Help."

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max129 wrote:We cannot 'unlearn' printed guns.
But the ruling class can pass feel-good laws against making them that will impact more traditional methods of making them. It only takes a politician or two whinging about 3-D printed "ghost guns" to get the ball rolling.

sbɐɯ ʎʇıɔɐdɐɔ pɹɐpuɐʇs ɟo ןןnɟ ǝɟɐs
ɯɯ6 bdd ɹǝɥʇןɐʍ
13ʞ
"ǝuıqɹɐɔ 1ɐ4ɯ" dɯɐʇsןןoɹ --- ɯoɔos0269ǝן ʇןoɔ
"ǝuıqɹɐɔ ʇuǝɯǝɔɹoɟuǝ ʍɐן sʇןoɔ" dɯɐʇsןןoɹ --- 0269ǝן ʇןoɔ
(béɟ) 59-pɯɐ

Re: "Want to Make an Untraceable Handgun at Home? Cody Wilson Can Help."

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While I don't expect a fully homemade ghost gun to hold up near as well as a properly forged gun, I have to wonder if there's a point where the ease of manufacture negates the reduced service life to a point that they actually become practical. At some point it may be easier to just print a firearm, use it, and if you have to move, destroy it and build another in your new home. That said, there will probably still be the whole rifle building support to some degree where non-serialized components can be bought instead of printed up until they demand everything short of the smallest parts be serialized.

Re: "Want to Make an Untraceable Handgun at Home? Cody Wilson Can Help."

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It's all about the manufacturing machine technology isn't it? What they are exploring here is the ease and portability of manufacturing and how that will democratize the power of making and owning things. It calls into question the foundations of of a society where things are the basis of value and embued with certain powers.
"It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of non-violence to cover impotence. There is hope for a violent man to become non-violent. There is no such hope for the impotent." -Gandhi

Re:

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DispositionMatrix wrote: Tue Jul 17, 2018 5:28 am
max129 wrote:We cannot 'unlearn' printed guns.
But the ruling class can pass feel-good laws against making them that will impact more traditional methods of making them. It only takes a politician or two whinging about 3-D printed "ghost guns" to get the ball rolling.
Or like copiers that can't duplicate currency, producing 3D or CNC firearms will be considered "Forgery" and software to block their creation will be required.

Re: Re:

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NoEyeDeer wrote: Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:48 pm
DispositionMatrix wrote: Tue Jul 17, 2018 5:28 am
max129 wrote:We cannot 'unlearn' printed guns.
But the ruling class can pass feel-good laws against making them that will impact more traditional methods of making them. It only takes a politician or two whinging about 3-D printed "ghost guns" to get the ball rolling.
Or like copiers that can't duplicate currency, producing 3D or CNC firearms will be considered "Forgery" and software to block their creation will be required.
At which point someone redesigns the gun to simply not have the components that are recognized as "gun" by the software. Think you could make software to block firing pins? Not without blocking a whole host of similar legitimate items. How about barrels? Are you going to block machines from making anything that has a tube in it? Sorry, but any software would either be overly restrictive or easily defeated, or both.
106+ recreational uses of firearms
1 defensive use
0 people injured
0 people killed

Re: Re:

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Eris wrote:
NoEyeDeer wrote: Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:48 pm
DispositionMatrix wrote: Tue Jul 17, 2018 5:28 am
max129 wrote:We cannot 'unlearn' printed guns.
But the ruling class can pass feel-good laws against making them that will impact more traditional methods of making them. It only takes a politician or two whinging about 3-D printed "ghost guns" to get the ball rolling.
Or like copiers that can't duplicate currency, producing 3D or CNC firearms will be considered "Forgery" and software to block their creation will be required.
At which point someone redesigns the gun to simply not have the components that are recognized as "gun" by the software. Think you could make software to block firing pins? Not without blocking a whole host of similar legitimate items. How about barrels? Are you going to block machines from making anything that has a tube in it? Sorry, but any software would either be overly restrictive or easily defeated, or both.
They're not actually going to "block" anything, but that would not stop the myriad useless laws and regulations. What this presents to pols is multiple opportunities to signal their virtue under the pretense of trying to solve problems.
sbɐɯ ʎʇıɔɐdɐɔ pɹɐpuɐʇs ɟo ןןnɟ ǝɟɐs
ɯɯ6 bdd ɹǝɥʇןɐʍ
13ʞ
"ǝuıqɹɐɔ 1ɐ4ɯ" dɯɐʇsןןoɹ --- ɯoɔos0269ǝן ʇןoɔ
"ǝuıqɹɐɔ ʇuǝɯǝɔɹoɟuǝ ʍɐן sʇןoɔ" dɯɐʇsןןoɹ --- 0269ǝן ʇןoɔ
(béɟ) 59-pɯɐ

Re: Re:

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DispositionMatrix wrote: Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:15 pm
Eris wrote:
NoEyeDeer wrote: Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:48 pm
DispositionMatrix wrote: Tue Jul 17, 2018 5:28 am
But the ruling class can pass feel-good laws against making them that will impact more traditional methods of making them. It only takes a politician or two whinging about 3-D printed "ghost guns" to get the ball rolling.
Or like copiers that can't duplicate currency, producing 3D or CNC firearms will be considered "Forgery" and software to block their creation will be required.
At which point someone redesigns the gun to simply not have the components that are recognized as "gun" by the software. Think you could make software to block firing pins? Not without blocking a whole host of similar legitimate items. How about barrels? Are you going to block machines from making anything that has a tube in it? Sorry, but any software would either be overly restrictive or easily defeated, or both.
They're not actually going to "block" anything, but that would not stop the myriad useless laws and regulations. What this presents to pols is multiple opportunities to signal their virtue under the pretense of trying to solve problems.
between the myriad of interests involved in surpressing 3d printing and CNC technology, I feel like at some point they're going to try to ban 3d printers outright. Is there any law that prevents the restriction of printers? Do they have some sort of 1st amendment protection?

Re: "Want to Make an Untraceable Handgun at Home? Cody Wilson Can Help."

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There won't be a ban on them. The industrial applications are already pretty big.

What some 3D printer makers have done, though, is take the built-in software that controls them (the "firmware" to use an older term) and put license restrictions on it saying that you can't use it to make a gun. If you do, then you are in violation of contract and copyright laws.
106+ recreational uses of firearms
1 defensive use
0 people injured
0 people killed

Re: "Want to Make an Untraceable Handgun at Home? Cody Wilson Can Help."

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BillMcD wrote: Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:04 pm Contract sure, copyright no. You lose the right to control something via copyright the moment you sell the copy except via contract law. Even then, its civil law and they can't really do much about it. There's nothing they could sue you for as there is no real remedy unless they're putting DRM and crap on their machines that bricks them when they find out what you're doing...
Yes, copyright law, because once you break the license you no longer have a legal right to use the software, because only the license gives you that right.

EDIT - This next link isn't quite a lawyer's advice, but it's probably the closest you'll get on the Internet:

https://info.legalzoom.com/breach-licen ... 22564.html
On the other hand, if the user utilizes the copyrighted work in a manner not authorized by the licensing agreement – such as adapting the work by translating it into another language – this use breaches the agreement and also constitutes copyright infringement.
I'm sure if someone ever did print a gun in violation of a license then the only winners would be the lawyers and their bankers, because it's bound to be argued back and forth in multiple courts.
106+ recreational uses of firearms
1 defensive use
0 people injured
0 people killed

Re: "Want to Make an Untraceable Handgun at Home? Cody Wilson Can Help."

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Eris wrote: Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:08 pm
BillMcD wrote: Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:04 pm Contract sure, copyright no. You lose the right to control something via copyright the moment you sell the copy except via contract law. Even then, its civil law and they can't really do much about it. There's nothing they could sue you for as there is no real remedy unless they're putting DRM and crap on their machines that bricks them when they find out what you're doing...
Yes, copyright law, because once you break the license you no longer have a legal right to use the software, because only the license gives you that right.

EDIT - This next link isn't quite a lawyer's advice, but it's probably the closest you'll get on the Internet:

https://info.legalzoom.com/breach-licen ... 22564.html
On the other hand, if the user utilizes the copyrighted work in a manner not authorized by the licensing agreement – such as adapting the work by translating it into another language – this use breaches the agreement and also constitutes copyright infringement.
I'm sure if someone ever did print a gun in violation of a license then the only winners would be the lawyers and their bankers, because it's bound to be argued back and forth in multiple courts.
How long, though, before someone creates open source software for the printers, and the manufacturer's license becomes irrelevant?

Re: "Want to Make an Untraceable Handgun at Home? Cody Wilson Can Help."

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Evo1 wrote: Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:31 pm How long, though, before someone creates open source software for the printers, and the manufacturer's license becomes irrelevant?
Won't happen. I'm not talking about software you run on your PC. I'm talking about software that is burned into ROM chips soldered into the circuits. You need a capability to manufacture chips in order to replace those, and I doubt if there are any open source groups that have that capability, and even if they did they'd probably run afoul of the DMCA as soon as they tried to reverse engineer the existing chip to determine their inputs and outputs.

Now, none of this means that there won't be open source groups making their own 3D printers from scratch - those already exist.

https://www.open-electronics.org/which- ... d-printer/

But right now they are not capable of making 3d printed guns.
106+ recreational uses of firearms
1 defensive use
0 people injured
0 people killed

Re: "Want to Make an Untraceable Handgun at Home? Cody Wilson Can Help."

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Hmm, no trigger and the barrel looks like it's for a flare gun. I guess the plastic has to be that thick to withstand the force of the discharge. Something tells me this is not going to be the weapon of choice for gang members.

"The government has agreed to allow Wilson and his company to post plans, files and 3D drawings in any form, according to a settlement dated June 29 and reported this week.

It exempts Wilson and his company from restrictions on the export of defense materials, according to a copy of the settlement given to CNN by Wilson’s attorneys.

The government also agreed to pay nearly $40,000 of Wilson’s legal fees.

CNN noted that the guns will lack serial numbers and be untraceable because users will build the weapons themselves.

"We asked for the Moon and we figured the government would reject it, but they didn't want to go to trial," Alan Gottlieb, the founder of the Second Amendment Foundation, which assisted Wilson in his case, told the network.

"The government fought us all the way and then all of the sudden folded their tent.”

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing- ... ntable-gun
"When and if fascism comes to America... it will be called, of course, ‘Americanism'." - Halford Luccock
"Liberty without socialism is privilege and injustice. Socialism without liberty is slavery and brutality."
— Mikhail Bakunin
Attachments
3dprintedgun_071918getty.jpg

Re: "Want to Make an Untraceable Handgun at Home? Cody Wilson Can Help."

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OnPoint did a segment on this case.
http://www.wbur.org/onpoint/2018/07/25/ ... un-control
Cody Wilson was on the guest list but did not call in.
Andy Greenberg, senior writer for Wired who has been following this story since 2013. (@a_greenberg)
Greenberg is the Wired writer who did a story on making an AR with a Ghost Gunnner. Wired writer makes AR-15 receiver via Ghost Gunner...
Avery Gardiner, co-president of The Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence, which filed an amicus brief in the case. (@AveryWGardiner)

Dave Kopel, associate policy analyst, Cato Institute. Research director at the Independence Institute. Adjunct professor of constitutional law at Denver University and author of "The Truth About Gun Control." (@davekopel)
The Brady Center is going to ask the judge to block DD from posting the files. Gardiner: "We need to worry about..." "This is a serious threat to all of us."

Dave Koppel pointed out all this data is already in the wild and the files were already legally distributable. The Obama-era ruling against DD simply prevented them from posting the files online.

A caller pointed out gun manufacturers might have an interest in this.

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I find the following Facebook campaign by www.NoRAnow.org really obnoxious and I'm trying to figure out why. I'm certainly no fan of the NRA. Goes without saying I dislike domestic violence. In other contexts, I'm even in favor of limited background checks, waiting periods, and some other tools that keep the craziest and most violent from owning.

I think this bugs me because I don't really believe that this group is interested in reasonable gun control or sees any value to guns at all -- I think they are just raising the "all guns are bad" hysteria.

I think this bugs me because I don't believe that gun control is the main answer to increasing gun violence in our society -- and this campaign seems to feed that narrative.

I'm not sure I want people to be able to print guns on their printers... Although a part of me can see value in it.

Image
Image

Most definitely NOT in the bullseye league... yet!

Re: "Want to Make an Untraceable Handgun at Home? Cody Wilson Can Help."

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zagone wrote: Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:04 pm I find the following Facebook campaign by www.NoRAnow.org really obnoxious and I'm trying to figure out why. I'm certainly no fan of the NRA. Goes without saying I dislike domestic violence. In other contexts, I'm even in favor of limited background checks, waiting periods, and some other tools that keep the craziest and most violent from owning.

I think this bugs me because I don't really believe that this group is interested in reasonable gun control or sees any value to guns at all -- I think they are just raising the "all guns are bad" hysteria.

I think this bugs me because I don't believe that gun control is the main answer to increasing gun violence in our society -- and this campaign seems to feed that narrative.

I'm not sure I want people to be able to print guns on their printers... Although a part of me can see value in it.

[ridiculous_image]
"He" already can print a gun at home and so can she, as has been the case for years. The ad is a lie. Per the recent settlement, Defense Distributed can host its files on its website. But the files have been distributable since they were first made available. The organization responsible for the image and the Brady Consortium are both deliberately misleading the public in order to stoke fear about 3D printers.

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