17 killed in shooting at Parkland, Florida high school

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BREAKING: School shooter who injured 20 at Florida high school still at large
Police have confirmed that a shooting took place at a Miami-area high school Wednesday afternoon, in what appears to be an active situation as the shooter remains at large.

“The school remains on lockdown, and law enforcement and the district’s special investigation unit are onsite,” the Broward County Public School District said in a statement to the local TV station WSVN, and the Margate Fire Department says there may be more, deeming the situation a "mass casualty incident."

Although Coral Springs police have not yet disclosed if anyone was injured in the shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida, local media outlet WSVN reported in a live broadcast that at least 20 people were injured.
Time to edit the title.
Last edited by DispositionMatrix on Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Alleged shooting at Florida high school

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One anonymous student said he recognized the shooter, a 20 year old, who he said was obsessed with guns and very troubled, and the video is a White male (as usual).
Reports are now from 2 sources that that there are fatalities, but not how many. Casualties are reported in numbers from 14 to 40, so info is spotty.

Among all the other far more important things, every survivor will NEVER forget this St. Valentine's Day Massacre.
"Even if the bee could explain to the fly why pollen is better than shit, the fly could never understand."

Re: Alleged shooting at Florida high school

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The video from inside with gunshots: at least 16 by my count, so...

https://mobile.twitter.com/CBSEveningNe ... 8035817473

Also heard dispatcher refer to someone (infer this suspect) as “a known 20” who had made multiple calls(?) in “the weeks and days...” —then said to call dispatch for details.

A safe bet any mass shooter is mentally ill, but this sounds like someone who might not need access to weapons—so how did he get them?

And THIS is why I favor improved background checks.
I’m NOT the NRA

Re: Alleged shooting at Florida high school

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HotheadPaisan wrote:The video from inside with gunshots: at least 16 by my count, so...

https://mobile.twitter.com/CBSEveningNe ... 8035817473

Also heard dispatcher refer to someone (infer this suspect) as “a known 20” who had made multiple calls(?) in “the weeks and days...” —then said to call dispatch for details.

A safe bet any mass shooter is mentally ill, but this sounds like someone who might not need access to weapons—so how did he get them?

And THIS is why I favor improved background checks.
If this shooting follows the pattern of virtually every other such incident, no change to the background check system would have made a difference. The failure is usually in the mental health/law enforcement systems failing to enter information into the background check system. With the exception of the Sandy Hook shooter, who stole his guns, and the Columbine shooters, who used a straw buyer, every single mass spree shooter has passed at least one background check, and some of them multiple such checks. The Orlando shooter passed the FBI background check to qualify to work as an armed guard at a nuclear power plant. How do you improve on that?
Last edited by Evo1 on Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Alleged shooting at Florida high school

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HotheadPaisan wrote:The video from inside with gunshots: at least 16 by my count, so...

https://mobile.twitter.com/CBSEveningNe ... 8035817473

Also heard dispatcher refer to someone (infer this suspect) as “a known 20” who had made multiple calls(?) in “the weeks and days...” —then said to call dispatch for details.

A safe bet any mass shooter is mentally ill, but this sounds like someone who might not need access to weapons—so how did he get them?

And THIS is why I favor improved background checks.
Improved background checks, require home safes, gun safes, and require owners to take reasonable care to keep their weapons locked down. I do. Always. Every time. They are on my person, or locked down, unloaded. Only my wife knows the combinations.

You can't carry, open or concealed, in NJ, unless you're hunting, legally or have a special hard-to-get permit, and I have no need, and feel no need to EVER carry.
"Even if the bee could explain to the fly why pollen is better than shit, the fly could never understand."

Re: Alleged shooting at Florida high school

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Local news is reporting that the shooter is one Nicholas Cruz, 20 year-old former student who was previously kicked out for bringing knives on campus. Reportedly his foster mother recently passed away and he was angry about this, and he apparently posted a video on social media last night, posing with a handgun, and threatening to carry out an attack.

Re: Alleged shooting at Florida high school

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Clearly no one monitors any of this... if this is the guy the dispatcher was talking about, what is the tipping point PRIOR to him shooting up a school? Where did he get the gun? Who sold it to him if he bought it?

Miami Herald: Cruz not allowed on campus if he had a backpack. Red flag for sure:

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/c ... 26034.html

We have to address the gap(s) between 2A, red flags, and slaughter.
I’m NOT the NRA

Re: Alleged shooting at Florida high school

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Evo1 wrote:
HotheadPaisan wrote:The video from inside with gunshots: at least 16 by my count, so...

https://mobile.twitter.com/CBSEveningNe ... 8035817473

Also heard dispatcher refer to someone (infer this suspect) as “a known 20” who had made multiple calls(?) in “the weeks and days...” —then said to call dispatch for details.

A safe bet any mass shooter is mentally ill, but this sounds like someone who might not need access to weapons—so how did he get them?

And THIS is why I favor improved background checks.
If this shooting follows the pattern of virtually every other such incident, no change to the background check system would have made a difference. The failure is usually in the mental health/law enforcement systems failing to enter information into the background check system. With the exception of the Sandy Hook shooter, who stole his guns, and the Columbine shooters, who used a straw buyer, every single mass spree shooter has passed at least one background check, and some of them multiple such checks. The Orlando shooter passed the FBI background check to qualify to work as an armed guard at a nuclear power plant. How do you improve on that?
I am sure controllers will want a "SSBI" / single scope background investigation to own guns.

Re: Alleged shooting at Florida high school

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OldScratch wrote:"Alleged"? That's almost funny. Another sad day for American schools.
Now that there is a better picture than that provided by the abysmally-executed report to which I linked, I will change the title.
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Re: Alleged shooting at Florida high school

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HotheadPaisan wrote:1. Video describing shooter as troubled and gun-obsessed:

https://twitter.com/joshdcaplan/status/ ... twterm%5E2

2. Evo1, I think your question is asked and answered. I would add that the owner/straw purchaser of a wayward weapon ought to bear more legal responsibility, particularly where minors and the clearly mentally ill are concerned. How would you fix it?
I agree. It has been answered definitively by the fact that demonstrably no imaginable background check system could have ever stopped a single one of these incidents given the particulars of how they have actually played out. That's simple observable fact.

And yes, I agree that straw purchasers or irresponsible owners of guns that are used in crimes should be held accountable. The penalty for being a straw purchaser is 10 years in federal prison (which generally means no parole), plus any charges/liabilities that are added as a result of what is done by the recipient. And in Florida, if a minor gains access to a gun that is not properly stored and uses it to harm someone, the owner is guilty of a felony. So that already happens.

Your question assumes that we can do anything to "fix" it. No country seems to have managed that yet. Germany, despite much stricter gun laws, has a per capita death rate from mass school shootings higher than the US. While Australia has been touted as having suffered no mass shootings since they passed their gun law in the mid 1990s, their own government chief crime statistician has said that there is no evidence whatsoever that there is a causal relationship. He points out that gun crime was already falling for several years before the law passed, and that the rate of decline didn't change afterward, along with the fact that this appears to be a regional phenomenon. New Zealand, for example, had exactly the same drop from almost none to none (numbers nearly identical to Australia both before and after), despite passing no new gun laws. And the UK passed a far stricter set of gun laws at about the same time, some of the strictest in the world, and yet their rate of mass spree shootings didn't decline (it went from almost none to almost - but still not - none).

We're talking about an extremely rare occurrence, despite the fact that in a country of 375 million people, even an extremely rare event seems to happen noticeably often. Such rare events are virtually impossible to understand since we have far too little data, and until you understand them, you can't reasonably offer potential solutions with any expectation that they are anything but feel-good BS. But what these incidents virtually all have in common are: background checks were carried out in almost every one and singularly failed to stop even a single one of these people; safe storage has played virtually no role, since, with the one exception, the shooters personally owned the weapons they used; waiting periods don't work, because these incidents virtually always involve lengthy periods of planning; various types of bans don't work, as even a country like the UK has had no luck in significantly reducing the incidence of these attacks, despite a near total ban backed up with nationwide confiscation and being an island nation with no land borders with gun source countries.

The fact that these are rare incidents, and that these killers usually plan their attacks out meticulously over weeks or months, I seriously doubt there is anything we can do to 'fix it.' We need to understand root causes and do something about those, because otherwise people who are intelligent, motivated, and willing to put that kind of planning and preparation into something like this will always find a way around anything we do to stop them. But as virtually every social problem we have shows, the chance of that occurring is not significantly different than zero. The best we can do is to take steps to minimize the damage they do. But people don't like to hear that, so we probably won't do that either.
Last edited by Evo1 on Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: >=15 allegedly killed in shooting at Florida high school

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WPBF television in West Palm Beach reports that the Parkland Fire Department is now confirming seven people have been killed at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland.

A federal official has identified the Florida school shooting suspect as Nicolas Cruz.

The official spoke to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity. The official says he had been briefed on the investigation into the shooting at the South Florida high school, but was not authorized to discuss it publicly.

Authorities in Florida say the shooter opened fire at the school Wednesday afternoon, killing "numerous" people. The shooting sent frightened students running out into the streets and SWAT team members swarming the building.

Authorities later announced that they had taken a former student, about 18 years old, into custody after locating him off the school grounds.
https://www.sfgate.com/news/education/a ... 614105.php
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Alleged shooting at Florida high school

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It is absolutely obvious to me that if this shit continues apace there will be tighter national gun control, almost certainly the next time the Dems take power. What form precisely, who knows? There is not a civilized society on earth that will continue to accept this level of carnage without feeling the need to "do something" whether it makes any difference or not. We can talk all we want about 18th century concepts of freedom, protection from an overbearing state, etc, in the end it will not matter. Demographics are against us, as the country continues to urbanize and the boomers and older begin to fade from the scene, an ethos of freedom from will overtake freedom to. If you don't believe me, spend some time with millennials, the largest generation in US history.

This is a bleak assessment and it pains me to make it, but I'm not so steeped in ideology that I cannot understand the impulse, even if I rationally disagree with it.
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