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Marines purchasing H&K M27s for all infantry soldiers

1 by SilasSoule
"Marine Corps Commandant Gen. Robert Neller confirmed to Military.com in December that the service had decided to outfit every member of the Marine Corps infantry squad with the M27 in place of the current M4 carbine infantry service rifle."

https://www.military.com/kitup/2018/04/ ... price.html

According to Wikipedia,the M27 has a 5 1/2" longer barrel than M4, weighs about 1 1/2 lbs more.
"When and if fascism comes to America... it will be called, of course, ‘Americanism'." - Halford Luccock
"Liberty without socialism is privilege and injustice. Socialism without liberty is slavery and brutality."
— Mikhail Bakunin

Re: Marines purchasing H&K M27s for all infantry soldiers

2 by YankeeTarheel
A few questions:
1) is the M27 also chambered in 5.56 NATO?
2) can it be chambered in anything else, like .308?
3) Does it use the same magazines as the M4?
4) Is it a gas-impingement system, too, and a variant on the AR-15 model?
5) Why is it so much more accurate than the M4? Is it just the longer barrel?
"Even if the bee could explain to the fly why pollen is better than shit, the fly could never understand."

Re: Marines purchasing H&K M27s for all infantry soldiers

3 by TrueTexan
Why does the Marines just have to be different? They can’t use what the rest of the ground pounders use? Not even buying a gun from an American company. Marines need to be reminded they are just a small part of the Navy. To save money their fatigue uniforms should be the same as the Army and they should use the same equipment as the rest of the ground pounders. Better still just absorb them into the Army as a another division.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

Re: Marines purchasing H&K M27s for all infantry soldiers

4 by highdesert
TrueTexan wrote: Sat May 12, 2018 12:10 pm Why does the Marines just have to be different? They can’t use what the rest of the ground pounders use? Not even buying a gun from an American company. Marines need to be reminded they are just a small part of the Navy. To save money their fatigue uniforms should be the same as the Army and they should use the same equipment as the rest of the ground pounders. Better still just absorb them into the Army as a another division.
Same with federal law enforcement agencies, they're allowed after RFP or RFQ to purchase different weapons.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Marines purchasing H&K M27s for all infantry soldiers

5 by 308Scout
YankeeTarheel wrote: Sat May 12, 2018 10:56 am A few questions:
1) is the M27 also chambered in 5.56 NATO?
2) can it be chambered in anything else, like .308?
3) Does it use the same magazines as the M4?
4) Is it a gas-impingement system, too, and a variant on the AR-15 model?
5) Why is it so much more accurate than the M4? Is it just the longer barrel?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M27_Infan ... atic_Rifle

https://www.heckler-koch.com/en/product ... ifles.html

Re: Marines purchasing H&K M27s for all infantry soldiers

6 by rascally
From what I can tell it's basically an M16A4 with a quad rail forestock and a Vltor A5 shoulder stock system (essentially a longer than carbine length but shorter than rifle length "buffer tube" using a rifle length spring and intermediate length buffer). Reputed to allow using a relatively short adjustable shoulder stock while giving a softer recoil impulse and reliability similar to using a fixed rifle stock system.

In other words, it's nothing you can't do with a regular M16A4. Swap the forestock, swap the shoulder stock system, and there you are. But that would only cost about $450 per rifle. Where's the fun in that..?

Procurement people gonna procure. And the higher the price tag, the better the resume enhancement.


"In every generation there are those who want to rule well - but they mean to rule. They promise to be good masters - but they mean to be masters." — Daniel Webster

Re: Marines purchasing H&K M27s for all infantry soldiers

7 by Nato
The m27 actually has a few differences from an m16a4 it uses the gas piston syste. From the G36 (it's a very good gas system) the barrel is machine gun rated as is the bolt allowing for more sustainted full auto fire more akin to an lmg than an assualt rifle. The heavier barrel and the HK tapered bore system. adds to the increased accuracy. There are also changes to the bolt and carrier to increase reliablity. The buttstock also has some recoil mitigation added to it. The trigger group has also been improved. The rifles will be produced at the HK factory in Georgia and all the m16a4s are currently made by the FN facility in South Carolina.

The M27 is a solid upgrade to the M16A4, there have been many attempts to upgrade both the Marines and army to unify their rifles and upgrade the M4s and M16s, the Marines got tired of the armies general dicking around, so they did an end run by first adopting the m27 as a sort of ultra light machine gun to supplant/replace the m249, but everyone sort of figured the Marines where up to something when the m249s all stuck around. US military small arms have started diverging among the branches since the US Ordinace Springfield got shut down. There are many strange things going on since Ordinace got shut down, now individual generals can go out on there own and buy whatever they can get approved for in congress, there are also a number of industry shenanigans involved now as well.
Pompous, with a touch of elitism.

Re: Marines purchasing H&K M27s for all infantry soldiers

8 by TrueTexan
Nato wrote: Sun May 13, 2018 6:36 am The m27 actually has a few differences from an m16a4 it uses the gas piston syste. From the G36 (it's a very good gas system) the barrel is machine gun rated as is the bolt allowing for more sustainted full auto fire more akin to an lmg than an assualt rifle. The heavier barrel and the HK tapered bore system. adds to the increased accuracy. There are also changes to the bolt and carrier to increase reliablity. The buttstock also has some recoil mitigation added to it. The trigger group has also been improved. The rifles will be produced at the HK factory in Georgia and all the m16a4s are currently made by the FN facility in South Carolina.

The M27 is a solid upgrade to the M16A4, there have been many attempts to upgrade both the Marines and army to unify their rifles and upgrade the M4s and M16s, the Marines got tired of the armies general dicking around, so they did an end run by first adopting the m27 as a sort of ultra light machine gun to supplant/replace the m249, but everyone sort of figured the Marines where up to something when the m249s all stuck around. US military small arms have started diverging among the branches since the US Ordinace Springfield got shut down. There are many strange things going on since Ordinace got shut down, now individual generals can go out on there own and buy whatever they can get approved for in congress, there are also a number of industry shenanigans involved now as well.
The current congress and administration increased the DOD budget so it is Spend, Spend , Spend tilll they demand another increase to protect Americans. First we had the Bomber Gap, then the Missle Gap, The Navy Ship Gap, The Submarine Gap etc. Now I’m sure the DoD has convinced a Congress Critter, from the state where the firearms are assembled, that we have a Rifle Gap with the forces against us in whatever presidential designated shithole country we have troops engaged, so we need new rifles different than the ones we have now.

This will mean different supply storage for each one allowing expansion of supply depots and logistics. Meaning more personnel and more commanders requiring at at least a couple of brigadier generals and a major general to command from the Pentagon. This will then bring more need for more funding. It is a viscous circle that goes back at least seventy years.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

Re: Marines purchasing H&K M27s for all infantry soldiers

9 by SilasSoule
From what I've heard, the Marine Corps puts more emphasis on marksmanship while the Army leans toward the 'spray and pray' approach (getting as many rounds in the general direction of the target as possible).
"When and if fascism comes to America... it will be called, of course, ‘Americanism'." - Halford Luccock
"Liberty without socialism is privilege and injustice. Socialism without liberty is slavery and brutality."
— Mikhail Bakunin

Re: Marines purchasing H&K M27s for all infantry soldiers

10 by Buck13
YankeeTarheel wrote: Sat May 12, 2018 10:56 am 5) Why is it so much more accurate than the M4? Is it just the longer barrel?
The accuracy difference has already been addressed by others, but just to make a point: unless you're aiming with iron sights, accuracy and barrel length aren't necessarily proportional.

How often do our soldiers *not* use some kind of optic on their rifles?
IMR4227: Zero to 900 in 0.001 seconds

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Re: Marines purchasing H&K M27s for all infantry soldiers

12 by KnightsFan
Could Army rifles firing when being switched between semi and full auto be part of this?
The Firearm Blog wrote:Unofficial footage, filmed by troops, surfaced showing a serious malfunction where an M4A1 carbine unintentionally discharged as its selector was shifted from semi to full auto. At least 900 carbines are known to be affected by the flaw.

...

To address this the Army has reportedly made a change to the M4A1’s ambidextrous selector’s technical date package which will force the lever to snap into a fixed detent position rather than potentially floating between the safe, semi, full detent positions. It remains to be see if other branches have encountered similar issues. Regardless it looks likely that unit level armourers are set to be busy for the foreseeable future.
"No one can build his security upon the nobleness of another person."
-Willa Cather
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