BBC: Active Shooter in Christchurch NZ

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Re: BBC: Active Shooter in Christchurch NZ

#26 Post by Wino » Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:02 pm

senorgrand wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:28 am
harriss wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:25 am
What came first? The race thinking and racism or the Trump? Obviously, race thinking and racism came first. Trump is just the current messenger.

Just a rethinking of the chicken or the egg conundrum.
I think Trump is a symptom of a disease that was already there. A festering malignancy that finally exposed itself with a massive, pustulent tumor.
Yes, it is a malignancy that has metastasized before our very eyes under Orange Puke and it will have a devastating effect on this nation for a generation if not halted.
"Being Republican is more than a difference of opinion - it's a character flaw."
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Re: BBC: Active Shooter in Christchurch NZ

#27 Post by max129 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:28 pm

senorgrand said:

I think Trump is a symptom of a disease that was already there.
I think there is evidence of this. The anecdotes infer that Trump was "trained" to say "Build the Wall" as his reminder to talk about immigration (which tested well in his target). Well it took on a life of its own and has darn near defined the man.

IMO, Trump has a true evil genius for exploiting small things and making them into big things. He really is brilliant. (Who here has forgotten that he said "Jeb Bush pees sitting down"?).

The flaws, cracks and weaknesses were already fully present. What asshats like Hitler and Trump do is turn small cracks into nation defining cracks. They only need a few such flaws to exploit. Hitler was able to direct all the fury of the bad deal at Versailles into "The Jews did it". Hitler never needed 20 flaws to exploit; just 2 or 3.

Trump had plenty of material. And he has exploited it with an evil genius.

IMO, that is what he is really signaling with the sh*t-eating-grin of his

[ *** TRIGGER WARNING *** The below picture renders the face of he who many here call "The Orange Sh*t Stain". Your mental, emotional and visual health may be impacted by clicking the link. In case you want to avoid see his face, it is just him with his idiotic grin.]
http://www.newsbehavingbadly.com/wp-con ... t-Grin.png

... I think the grin says, "I am doing it RIGHT NOW in front over everyone. And it Works!"
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Re: BBC: Active Shooter in Christchurch NZ

#28 Post by HuckleberryFun » Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:03 pm

From the NZ mass shooter’s manifesto:
0F817303-8828-468F-ADB2-2BB9C1FA3D81.jpeg
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Re: BBC: Active Shooter in Christchurch NZ

#29 Post by senorgrand » Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:26 pm

i think reposting a shooter's manifesto just encourages more shooters
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Re: BBC: Active Shooter in Christchurch NZ

#30 Post by max129 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:33 pm

WRT HuckleberryFun's post:

From the NZ mass shooter’s manifesto: [Image not repeated]
Now let's be reasonable about this ...

OK, once you read a statement like the above, there is clearly no middle ground, no compromises, no reasoning of any kind. These people have declared war on civilization. And it is personal. We lived through this in the late 60s and 70s with Bader Meinhof who were simply that same kind of thugs on the far left (so left, they wrapped around).

The same phenomenon on the far right, with this batch of un-named white supremacists, they are like Bader Meinhof without the intellect. Just brute force thugs - similar to the bully boys of 1500 Northern Europe.
Last edited by max129 on Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: BBC: Active Shooter in Christchurch NZ

#31 Post by max129 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:35 pm

senorgrand said:

i think reposting a shooter's manifesto just encourages more shooters
I would respectfully disagree, I am glad Huck posted this. This is a safer place than a Reddit forum. And we all need to see how extreme these groups are.
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Re: BBC: Active Shooter in Christchurch NZ

#32 Post by senorgrand » Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:02 pm

I see no difference in reposting this, or ISIS propaganda.
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Re: BBC: Active Shooter in Christchurch NZ

#33 Post by HuckleberryFun » Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:03 pm

max129 wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:35 pm
senorgrand said:

i think reposting a shooter's manifesto just encourages more shooters
I disagree, I am glad Huck posted this. This is a safer place than a Reddit forum. And we all need to see how extreme these groups are.
Thank you. I reposted this small snippet from the shooter’s “manifesto” for the benefit of the “if only we could all just sit down together and talk” faction on this forum. My nature is to want to gather intelligence on what threats I’m dealing with.
Imagine if Churchill during his years in the political wilderness in the 1930s had never read Mein Kampf because that would “just encourage more Hitlers”. Know your enemy. Don’t encourage him, but know him.
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Re: BBC: Active Shooter in Christchurch NZ

#34 Post by dougb » Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:12 pm

senorgrand wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:26 pm
i think reposting a shooter's manifesto just encourages more shooters
Unless the photo includes the shooters bullet riddled body
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Re: BBC: Active Shooter in Christchurch NZ

#35 Post by YankeeTarheel » Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:19 pm

dougb wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:12 pm
senorgrand wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:26 pm
i think reposting a shooter's manifesto just encourages more shooters
Unless the photo includes the shooters bullet riddled body
Well there is that...
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Re: BBC: Active Shooter in Christchurch NZ

#36 Post by YankeeTarheel » Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:20 pm

HuckleberryFun wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:03 pm
max129 wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:35 pm
senorgrand said:

i think reposting a shooter's manifesto just encourages more shooters
I disagree, I am glad Huck posted this. This is a safer place than a Reddit forum. And we all need to see how extreme these groups are.
Thank you. I reposted this small snippet from the shooter’s “manifesto” for the benefit of the “if only we could all just sit down together and talk” faction on this forum. My nature is to want to gather intelligence on what threats I’m dealing with.
Imagine if Churchill during his years in the political wilderness in the 1930s had never read Mein Kampf because that would “just encourage more Hitlers”. Know your enemy. Don’t encourage him, but know him.
That's straight out of "The Art of War":
Know your enemy!
If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything." -- Mark Twain
My son says: "Don't argue with an idiot. They'll only drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!" -- YT

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Re: BBC: Active Shooter in Christchurch NZ

#37 Post by max129 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:27 pm

I count myself as one who tends to under estimate cultural threats. I am not naive, but they are not happening in my neighborhood.

But YIKES, the a**hole who shot up 50+ people in Las Vegas did it about 500 meters South of my house. Now that is a wake up call. The difference between that nut-job and the white supremacists whose manifesto Huck posted is that nut-jobs tend to be lone nut-jobs. White supremacists are forming packs and becoming active terrorists.
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Re: BBC: Active Shooter in Christchurch NZ

#38 Post by HuckleberryFun » Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:39 pm

max129 wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:27 pm
I count myself as one who tends to under estimate cultural threats. I am not naive, but they are not happening in my neighborhood.

But YIKES, the a**hole who shot up 50+ people in Las Vegas did it about 500 meters South of my house. Now that is a wake up call. The difference between that nut-job and the white supremacists whose manifesto Huck posted is that nut-jobs tend to be lone nut-jobs. White supremacists are forming packs and becoming active terrorists.
The white supremecists are re-organizing themselves into action cells with the goal of taking “direct action,” (ie, terrorist attacks and hate crimes) against their perceived enemies. I’ve talked about this in a previous post in another thread.
This shit is just getting started. You are their targets. Wake up. For the love of god, wake the fuck up.
(Comments directed generally, not to max129)
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Re: BBC: Active Shooter in Christchurch NZ

#39 Post by Eris » Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:43 pm

I have no problem with quoting his manifesto. As noted above, know your enemy. We ignore them at our peril.
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Re: BBC: Active Shooter in Christchurch NZ

#40 Post by DispositionMatrix » Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:47 pm

Evil Australian export charged over rampage
“That can give you a good idea of why we need to see our gun laws changed,” Ms Ardern said.

“Today as the country grieves we are seeking answers,” she said

“Our gun laws will change. Now is the time for change,” Ms Ardern said.
The shooter had acquired the 5 firearms legally in New Zealand. Two allegedly were semi-automatic.

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Re: BBC: Active Shooter in Christchurch NZ

#41 Post by highdesert » Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:49 pm

The suspect allegedly stated that he was in contact with Anders Breivik the Norwegian mass murdered who killed 69 people in 2011, mostly children. Both are right wing loners.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/20 ... 8de7624789
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Re: BBC: Active Shooter in Christchurch NZ

#42 Post by HuckleberryFun » Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:08 pm

highdesert wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:49 pm
The suspect allegedly stated that he was in contact with Anders Breivik the Norwegian mass murdered who killed 69 people in 2011, mostly children. Both are right wing loners.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/20 ... 8de7624789
Makes sense. The at more-than-one-location attacks immediately brought to mind Breivik.
Maximum casualties and mayhem is the goal. “Multiculturalism” is their bete noir
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Re: BBC: Active Shooter in Christchurch NZ

#43 Post by Eris » Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:25 pm

Why did he do this? I downloaded his manifesto. I have only read the first few pages, but it's pretty typical white supremacsist BS. Then there is this in his list of reasons for the attack:
Finally, to create conflict between the two ideologies within the United States on the ownership of firearms in order to further the social, cultural, political and racial divide within the United states.This conflict over the 2nd amendment and the attempted removal of firearms rights will
ultimately result in a civil war that will eventually balkanize the US along political, cultural and, most importantly, racial lines.

This balkanization of the US will not only result in the racial separation of the people within the United States ensuring the future of the White race on the North American continent, but also ensuring the death of the “melting pot” pipe dream.

Furthermore this balkanization will also reduce the USA’s ability to project power globally, and thereby ensure that never again can such a situation as the US involvement in Kosovo ever occur again(where US/NATO forces fought beside muslims and slaughtered ChristianEuropeans attempting to remove these Islamic occupiers from Europe).
Muslims were his victims, but his target is us.
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Re: BBC: Active Shooter in Christchurch NZ

#44 Post by featureless » Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:29 pm

@ Eris: And of course, the media is playing along just like the nutter expected them to on the gun control front. It's not the evil in the heart to blame, it is the scary tool used. Ban that and the problem is solved, right? Narrative would be different if he'd used the bombs in the car instead.

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Re: BBC: Active Shooter in Christchurch NZ

#45 Post by YankeeTarheel » Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:34 pm

Of course his target is us, all of us. This nazi shit believes that Jews are behind it all.
I'm usually against the death penalty but short of being locked up in Supermax (or its equal) in solitary till he goes so crazy he starts flinging his own feces at the walls, nothing else will suffice.
Unless, of course, his fellow prisoners beat him to death, a la Jeffrey Dahmer.
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Re: BBC: Active Shooter in Christchurch NZ

#46 Post by Bisbee » Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:36 pm

Holy shit. This guy was evil but he clearly wasn’t ignorant. His motivations are far more profound than most people who resort to random violence due to personal feelings of impotence. He is in fact playing the Devil himself.

I wonder if the anti-gunners are actually reading this and feeling like they are being played?
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Re: BBC: Active Shooter in Christchurch NZ

#47 Post by Eris » Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:40 pm

Welp, I've had enough hatred for now. Ugh. I know it's important to know your enemy, but reading that stuff is sickening.

If anyone wants a copy of the manifesto, PM me and I'll get it to you. I found it on 8chan where it was originally posted, but I don't reccomend anyone else going there. I run a heavily secured web browser, but even in my short time there I managed to get some pop up claiming it had encrypted my hard drive and I needed to pay a ransom. (Don't worry, my browser didn't let anything actually happen, but I don't reccommend anyone else taking the chance.)
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Re: BBC: Active Shooter in Christchurch NZ

#48 Post by max129 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:40 pm

featureless said:

if he'd used the bombs in the car instead.
Or 50 liters of petrol. You don't even need to make a b*mb.

It is slightly easier for me to imagine the state of mind of a Jihadist (what with all the martyr bs and heaven, etc.). For sure, most jihadists are living sh*t lives anyway.

But people living in NZ? The place is pretty damn nice. What makes you get so worked up that you decide to go on what is CLEARLY a suicide mission rampage to kill some strangers?

I don't need an actual answer. I know the process. Reading/watching hate filled media content. Getting all worked up over brown-people-getting-onto-our-white-wimins. So yeah, I know the path they took. But what in that path takes a person living in civilization over the terrorist edge?

Far easier for me to understand the rage of Palestinians for example (or heck, Native Americans).

I guess I have too much of a commitment to rationality.

But white folks in New Zealand? What the heck did Muslims ever do to them?
Eris said:

Welp, I've had enough hatred for now. Ugh. I know it's important to know your enemy, but reading that stuff is sickening.
Me too. I am going to a bar.
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Re: BBC: Active Shooter in Christchurch NZ

#49 Post by Bisbee » Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:01 pm

Max, It’s difficult to write a simple post to explain what motivates these First World terrorists convincingly but I suspect I have the answer. It has to do with fear and rage and the ironic increase of those feelings in those who actually live with full bellies in the absence of “purpose”. I understand their motivations very well and am happy to discuss this over the anesthetic qualities of a pint.

But it is precisely our devotion to rationality that prevents us from seeing the underpinnings of hate and mental illness. I say this without meaning to besmirch mentally ill people but point to the very schism that this terrorist is trying to make into a canyon. I say this with humility: rationally, Max, is the blind spot.
"It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of non-violence to cover impotence. There is hope for a violent man to become non-violent. There is no such hope for the impotent." -Gandhi

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Re: BBC: Active Shooter in Christchurch NZ

#50 Post by max129 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:11 pm

bisbee said:

... happy to discuss this over the anesthetic qualities of a pint.
Now that is a good idea.

Thanks
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