Improving the trigger on a Charter Arms snubbie.

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PeterBlack
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Improving the trigger on a Charter Arms snubbie.

#1 Post by PeterBlack » Mon May 08, 2017 8:38 am

Have started taking a shine to my Undecover Special. Seems with practice I can actually hit something.
It's in very good condition for its age. - think it was bought in the 70s and was hardly fired, if at all. Thought the rifling was gone due to corrosion,after sitting in a sock drawer for 30+ years but after many cleans I can still see some.
My first encounter with it was to take it to the range and shoot a box of 50 rounds through it. It seized up after 35 rounds. In retrospect these guns are not meant for a firefight. The cylinder's a tight fit so heat & expansion did it. Sent it back to Charter Arms and for $80 they serviced it and replaced the cylinder release catch. Not a bad deal to get a snubbie in almost showroom condition.

My question is how to get a better double action trigger pull. Don't think it's been fired DA many times, except by me, so would more shooting help or is there something I can do? Have flushed it out with solvent and lubed it to the extent that the cylinder spins freely, which it didn't before.
My level of amateur gunsmithery ends at being able to change the the hammer bushing on a Rugger 22/45, add the slingshot mod and disable the loaded chamber indicator- so I don't want to get in too deep and dangerous.
All suggestions and comments would be appreciated.Image


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Re: Improving the trigger on a Charter Arms snubbie.

#2 Post by PeterBlack » Mon May 08, 2017 8:48 am

The last two numbers of the serial # are 68 - don't show on the pic.


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Re: Improving the trigger on a Charter Arms snubbie.

#3 Post by dandad » Mon May 08, 2017 9:10 am

First maybe try a lighter main spring. Check out wolf springs.

If you want to try the old fashion method used for at least 100 years, you remove a little from the sides of the trigger spring, put it back in and test in both single and double strikes. Remember, lighter DA means much lighter SA. Still to heavy remove a little more and so on. Remove to much and it wont have the power to detonate the primers. My dad always tested with harder rifle primers. He said if it ignites them, all brands of the softer primers will not be a problem .
Also, remove to much and you will need a new spring. So many these days just buy a lighter spring and forgo the shaving process.


Oh, and polish any parts that touch. But unless your skilled,or insane like me, dont mess with sears. A little over jealous polishing and your buying more parts..


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Re: Improving the trigger on a Charter Arms snubbie.

#4 Post by Sarge » Mon May 08, 2017 9:26 am

Most folks will go to little extra trouble to black out the serial number for security and privacy reasons.. it's your gun you choice

nothing with a corroded barrel is in showroom condition Barrel condition is usually a High priority when buying a used pistol again it is your pistol

Lightening the Double action on most revolvers will also result in light strikes when you try and fire it.. possibly not igniting the primer. your pistol

Revolvers don't have a safety, per se, rather they have a heavier than you may be used to trigger pull .. that is a design feature not a bug... under duress and stress when you need a firearm you won't notice the heavy trigger pull .. don't take my word for it.. enter some sort of timed shooting competition, IDPA would work.. you will see. This is also a feature on some of the small pocket autos 380's and 32's

Try cleaning the barrel right after firing while the gun is still hot.. that will help remove some of the crud. they make special solvents for copper and for lead fouling different solvents for each might try those

Don't expect any pistol to feel right until you have 500 rounds thru it .. if you are still unhappy with the trigger after 500 rounds talk to a gunsmith.. he will probably try and discourage you from disabling a safety feature (the heavy DA trigger pull) listen to him. take his advice.

Unless they fixed the cylinder binding the weapon is not reliable enough for self defense

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Re: Improving the trigger on a Charter Arms snubbie.

#5 Post by Stiff » Mon May 08, 2017 10:18 am

Revolvers are supposed to be dead nuts reliable. If it's anything less, then I wouldn't trust it for self defense. While in theory semiautos are slightly less reliable in comparison, 99% of the problem can be solved by racking the slide and changing the mag. When a revolver jams, it's usually a serious problem that you can't fix then and there.

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Re: Improving the trigger on a Charter Arms snubbie.

#6 Post by dandad » Mon May 08, 2017 12:54 pm

Did you ask charter about the trigger? You sent it in for the cylinder, maybe they could give you some idea on it? Maybe even help you get it where you want it ?

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Re: Improving the trigger on a Charter Arms snubbie.

#7 Post by dandad » Mon May 08, 2017 12:58 pm

It appears to be a 1st gen if this is right


http://www.nationalgunforum.com/#/topics/14097?page=1


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Re: Improving the trigger on a Charter Arms snubbie.

#8 Post by dandad » Mon May 08, 2017 1:03 pm

IGNORE MY POST ON SHAVING THE SPRING.. It appears charger does not use a flat spring, but a coil. So shaving is not an option. Only cutting is.

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Re: Improving the trigger on a Charter Arms snubbie.

#9 Post by pokute » Mon May 08, 2017 1:20 pm

If you are going to use it for self-defense, you probably don't want a better DA pull. That heavy DA pull is your "safety", and it also prevents small children from accidentally firing it. MANY pocket guns are set up this way. Some of them are designed to have a very heavy DA pull, and a very fine SA pull. The S&W kit guns are that way.
Charter Arms were VERY popular police hide-out guns in the 80's. They are considered generally reliable.

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Re: Improving the trigger on a Charter Arms snubbie.

#10 Post by PeterBlack » Mon May 08, 2017 10:04 pm

Sarge wrote:Most folks will go to little extra trouble to black out the serial number for security and privacy reasons.. it's your gun you choice

nothing with a corroded barrel is in showroom condition Barrel condition is usually a High priority when buying a used pistol again it is your pistol

Lightening the Double action on most revolvers will also result in light strikes when you try and fire it.. possibly not igniting the primer. your pistol

Revolvers don't have a safety, per se, rather they have a heavier than you may be used to trigger pull .. that is a design feature not a bug... under duress and stress when you need a firearm you won't notice the heavy trigger pull .. don't take my word for it.. enter some sort of timed shooting competition, IDPA would work.. you will see. This is also a feature on some of the small pocket autos 380's and 32's

Try cleaning the barrel right after firing while the gun is still hot.. that will help remove some of the crud. they make special solvents for copper and for lead fouling different solvents for each might try those

Don't expect any pistol to feel right until you have 500 rounds thru it .. if you are still unhappy with the trigger after 500 rounds talk to a gunsmith.. he will probably try and discourage you from disabling a safety feature (the heavy DA trigger pull) listen to him. take his advice.

Unless they fixed the cylinder binding the weapon is not reliable enough for self defense
In my original post I said I thought the barrel was corroded, but after much cleaning I could see a bright bore with visible rifling. Think you misread my original post. So the barrel is good. There was little to no scoring on the cylinder when I acquired the gun indicating it had not been fired much or at all. No dings, dents or scratches. The gun went back to Charter Arms who repaired it and test fired it, so I'm confident it's reliable, and for its age in good condition. I've had no problems -probably only put 200+ rounds through it.
I take your point that a strong double action trigger pull is a good idea, both for safety and avoiding light primer strikes also that I should shoot it more - which I plan to do. Many thanks for the advice.

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Re: Improving the trigger on a Charter Arms snubbie.

#11 Post by PeterBlack » Mon May 08, 2017 10:06 pm

Stiff wrote:Revolvers are supposed to be dead nuts reliable. If it's anything less, then I wouldn't trust it for self defense. While in theory semiautos are slightly less reliable in comparison, 99% of the problem can be solved by racking the slide and changing the mag. When a revolver jams, it's usually a serious problem that you can't fix then and there.
It did go back to Charter Arms who repaired it and test fired it so I'm reasonably confident it will go bang when needed.

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Re: Improving the trigger on a Charter Arms snubbie.

#12 Post by PeterBlack » Mon May 08, 2017 10:09 pm

pokute wrote:If you are going to use it for self-defense, you probably don't want a better DA pull. That heavy DA pull is your "safety", and it also prevents small children from accidentally firing it. MANY pocket guns are set up this way. Some of them are designed to have a very heavy DA pull, and a very fine SA pull. The S&W kit guns are that way.
Charter Arms were VERY popular police hide-out guns in the 80's. They are considered generally reliable.
Agreed - so I won't be messing with the trigger pull.

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Re: Improving the trigger on a Charter Arms snubbie.

#13 Post by PeterBlack » Mon May 08, 2017 10:17 pm

Many thanks to all - my take from this from this is that I keep shooting the gun as it is, as messing with triggers seems problematical, and maybe dangerous.
Always appreciate the comments and advice I get from LGCers.

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Re: Improving the trigger on a Charter Arms snubbie.

#14 Post by PeterBlack » Mon May 08, 2017 10:36 pm

PeterBlack wrote:
Sarge wrote:Most folks will go to little extra trouble to black out the serial number for security and privacy reasons.. it's your gun you choice

nothing with a corroded barrel is in showroom condition Barrel condition is usually a High priority when buying a used pistol again it is your pistol

Lightening the Double action on most revolvers will also result in light strikes when you try and fire it.. possibly not igniting the primer. your pistol

Revolvers don't have a safety, per se, rather they have a heavier than you may be used to trigger pull .. that is a design feature not a bug... under duress and stress when you need a firearm you won't notice the heavy trigger pull .. don't take my word for it.. enter some sort of timed shooting competition, IDPA would work.. you will see. This is also a feature on some of the small pocket autos 380's and 32's

Try cleaning the barrel right after firing while the gun is still hot.. that will help remove some of the crud. they make special solvents for copper and for lead fouling different solvents for each might try those

Don't expect any pistol to feel right until you have 500 rounds thru it .. if you are still unhappy with the trigger after 500 rounds talk to a gunsmith.. he will probably try and discourage you from disabling a safety feature (the heavy DA trigger pull) listen to him. take his advice.

Unless they fixed the cylinder binding the weapon is not reliable enough for self defense
In my original post I said I thought the barrel was corroded, but after much cleaning I could see a bright bore with visible rifling. Think you misread my original post. So the barrel is good. There was little to no scoring on the cylinder when I acquired the gun indicating it had not been fired much or at all. No dings, dents or scratches. The gun went back to Charter Arms who repaired it and test fired it, so I'm confident it's reliable, and for its age in good condition. I've had no problems -probably only put 200+ rounds through it.
I take your point that a strong double action trigger pull is a good idea, both for safety and avoiding light primer strikes also that I should shoot it more - which I plan to do. Many thanks for the advice.
looking at my original post I can see some ambiguity in my comment about corrosion/lack of corrosion in the barrel - My apologies for suggesting you misread my post - I'll be more precise next time.

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Re: Improving the trigger on a Charter Arms snubbie.

#15 Post by Sarge » Tue May 09, 2017 12:37 am

PeterBlack wrote:
PeterBlack wrote:
Sarge wrote:Most folks will go to little extra trouble to black out the serial number for security and privacy reasons.. it's your gun you choice

nothing with a corroded barrel is in showroom condition Barrel condition is usually a High priority when buying a used pistol again it is your pistol

Lightening the Double action on most revolvers will also result in light strikes when you try and fire it.. possibly not igniting the primer. your pistol

Revolvers don't have a safety, per se, rather they have a heavier than you may be used to trigger pull .. that is a design feature not a bug... under duress and stress when you need a firearm you won't notice the heavy trigger pull .. don't take my word for it.. enter some sort of timed shooting competition, IDPA would work.. you will see. This is also a feature on some of the small pocket autos 380's and 32's

Try cleaning the barrel right after firing while the gun is still hot.. that will help remove some of the crud. they make special solvents for copper and for lead fouling different solvents for each might try those

Don't expect any pistol to feel right until you have 500 rounds thru it .. if you are still unhappy with the trigger after 500 rounds talk to a gunsmith.. he will probably try and discourage you from disabling a safety feature (the heavy DA trigger pull) listen to him. take his advice.

Unless they fixed the cylinder binding the weapon is not reliable enough for self defense
In my original post I said I thought the barrel was corroded, but after much cleaning I could see a bright bore with visible rifling. Think you misread my original post. So the barrel is good. There was little to no scoring on the cylinder when I acquired the gun indicating it had not been fired much or at all. No dings, dents or scratches. The gun went back to Charter Arms who repaired it and test fired it, so I'm confident it's reliable, and for its age in good condition. I've had no problems -probably only put 200+ rounds through it.
I take your point that a strong double action trigger pull is a good idea, both for safety and avoiding light primer strikes also that I should shoot it more - which I plan to do. Many thanks for the advice.
looking at my original post I can see some ambiguity in my comment about corrosion/lack of corrosion in the barrel - My apologies for suggesting you misread my post - I'll be more precise next time.
Always happy to hear about somebody bringing a barrel back.. I collect milslurps and apparently some countries simply do not ever clean their guns.. no daylight.. to decent shooter

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Re: Improving the trigger on a Charter Arms snubbie.

#16 Post by nigel » Tue May 09, 2017 12:40 am

I think you'll find it will be much more comfortable, and controllable, if you fit a grip adapter. I have one of these http://bkgrips.com/?page_id=22
They are made from resin so you can do a little fitting and adjustment with a needle file or Emory cloth. Also, they come in more attractive colors than cream.
ImageImageImage

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Re: Improving the trigger on a Charter Arms snubbie.

#17 Post by dandad » Tue May 09, 2017 5:14 am

nigel wrote:I think you'll find it will be much more comfortable, and controllable, if you fit a grip adapter. I have one of these http://bkgrips.com/?page_id=22
They are made from resin so you can do a little fitting and adjustment with a needle file or Emory cloth. Also, they come in more attractive colors than cream.
Oh. Good call. That can help big time .. Image

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Re: Improving the trigger on a Charter Arms snubbie.

#18 Post by PeterBlack » Tue May 09, 2017 7:23 am

nigel wrote:I think you'll find it will be much more comfortable, and controllable, if you fit a grip adapter. I have one of these http://bkgrips.com/?page_id=22
They are made from resin so you can do a little fitting and adjustment with a needle file or Emory cloth. Also, they come in more attractive colors than cream.
Thanks I'll look into that - seems like a good option

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Re: Improving the trigger on a Charter Arms snubbie.

#19 Post by itwasprobablyme5 » Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:07 pm

PeterBlack wrote:
Stiff wrote:Revolvers are supposed to be dead nuts reliable. If it's anything less, then I wouldn't trust it for self defense. While in theory semiautos are slightly less reliable in comparison, 99% of the problem can be solved by racking the slide and changing the mag. When a revolver jams, it's usually a serious problem that you can't fix then and there.
It did go back to Charter Arms who repaired it and test fired it so I'm reasonably confident it will go bang when needed.
Supposed to be 100% reliable. Reality is revolvers do lock up and I would way rather clear a aut than. Revolver with a jumped crimp

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Re: Improving the trigger on a Charter Arms snubbie.

#20 Post by lurker » Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:15 pm

itwasprobablyme5 wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:07 pm
Supposed to be 100% reliable. Reality is revolvers do lock up and I would way rather clear a aut than. Revolver with a jumped crimp
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Re: Improving the trigger on a Charter Arms snubbie.

#21 Post by Heretic » Fri Oct 11, 2019 8:02 pm

One thing not mentioned is that Charter uses pins instead of screws in places - I've always found dealing with pins to be rather a PITA compared with screws, which I find a good argument for leaving things be.

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