Re: the ongoing saga of fixing a cheap AR.

26
SailDesign wrote: Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:27 am
Marlene wrote: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:37 am Never buy an expensive consumer product expecting to get your money back out of it.

<snip good advice>

Sounds like you dig your 22. Imagine selling this piece of shit at a loss and buying a ton of ammo and maybe a new scope or stock or whatever for your 22 that might make you like it even more. Shooting stuff is fun. Go have some fun.
That last paragraph - WAY beyond "good" advice - that there is reasoned and SAGE advice. :)
Absolutely! Hit the range!
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: the ongoing saga of fixing a cheap AR.

27
sikacz wrote: Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:37 am
SailDesign wrote: Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:27 am
Marlene wrote: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:37 am Never buy an expensive consumer product expecting to get your money back out of it.

<snip good advice>

Sounds like you dig your 22. Imagine selling this piece of shit at a loss and buying a ton of ammo and maybe a new scope or stock or whatever for your 22 that might make you like it even more. Shooting stuff is fun. Go have some fun.
That last paragraph - WAY beyond "good" advice - that there is reasoned and SAGE advice. :)
Absolutely! Hit the range!
Yeah I'm going to be soaking some of the cost regardless. I was just hoping not to lose half the money I put into the thing. I'll see what i can get for it at the next show. I'm just going to have to leave out the "gas problem."

Re: the ongoing saga of fixing a cheap AR.

28
Bill,
Do you know what buffer is in it? I've read that sometimes a different buffer weight will resolve gas issues. I can't recall, but logically, it seems you'd want a heavier buffer... Might be cheaper than an adjustable gas block. I haven't had to fix any of mine yet, so this is going off fuzzy memory related to running a rifle length gas system on a carbine recoil tube.

But, if you're just done screwing with it, the advise on cutting losses is good.

Re: the ongoing saga of fixing a cheap AR.

29
BillMcD wrote: Tue Apr 24, 2018 12:16 am I don't know whether the gas block or the barrel itself is the issue, but both cost more money.
The good news is that it doesn't matter. An adjustable gas block will allow you to adjust it to your liking within reason - you won't have to replace the barrel. Here's an option if your rifle has a front sight base:
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/10033 ... teel-matte

I say 'within reason' because building my AR-10 from parts and tuning it continues to teach me things about the gun. I learned that most barrel manufacturers drill about the same size hole in the barrel and for most ammo the hole's too big. The ammo's the thing, really. If one uses ammo that's too 'hot' in a Garand, they may damage the gun. Do the same in an AR and all you get is more smoke in the face. It appears that manufacturers are opening the gas system so that the gun operates even with commercial ammo on the anemic side of things. I ended up with an adjustable block on my -10 after trying a fixed block. It was overgassed with 7.62x51, it was overgassed with most hunting loads, and it was really overgassed when I put the suppressor on the front. :ninja:

The good news is that if your rifle was 'stupidly overgassed' (<-- not a technical term) it would be a single-shot rifle. That it functions means you're in the middle of the bell curve somewhere - somewhere between "not enough gas to operate the bolt and strip a new round" and "so much gas that the gun's trying to blow the bolt back before the brass has shrunk from the chamber walls and the extractor's ripping chunks of brass off the rim without extracting the spent case". The bolt will 'short stroke' at both extremes - makes diagnosing more fun. ;)

Some people don't drink coffee, some like to drink coffee, and some people like to chew their coffee. Options are available. 8-)

Re: the ongoing saga of fixing a cheap AR.

30
AndyH wrote: Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:34 pm The good news is that if your rifle was 'stupidly overgassed' (<-- not a technical term) it would be a single-shot rifle. That it functions means you're in the middle of the bell curve somewhere - somewhere between "not enough gas to operate the bolt and strip a new round" and "so much gas that the gun's trying to blow the bolt back before the brass has shrunk from the chamber walls and the extractor's ripping chunks of brass off the rim without extracting the spent case". The bolt will 'short stroke' at both extremes - makes diagnosing more fun. ;)
Yeah, just stupidly overgassed rifles also kick harder, which while hard to imagine on an AR maybe, There is actually increased felt recoil when its way overgassed from the block slamming back harder. I've shot ARs that kick significantly less than mine. Its still AR recoil but there is a noticeable difference.

Re: the ongoing saga of fixing a cheap AR.

31
BillMcD wrote: Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:11 am
AndyH wrote: Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:34 pm The good news is that if your rifle was 'stupidly overgassed' (<-- not a technical term) it would be a single-shot rifle. That it functions means you're in the middle of the bell curve somewhere - somewhere between "not enough gas to operate the bolt and strip a new round" and "so much gas that the gun's trying to blow the bolt back before the brass has shrunk from the chamber walls and the extractor's ripping chunks of brass off the rim without extracting the spent case". The bolt will 'short stroke' at both extremes - makes diagnosing more fun. ;)
Yeah, just stupidly overgassed rifles also kick harder, which while hard to imagine on an AR maybe, There is actually increased felt recoil when its way overgassed from the block slamming back harder. I've shot ARs that kick significantly less than mine. Its still AR recoil but there is a noticeable difference.
Once you settle on ammo and install the gas block, you can turn the gas off, and adjust it open until the gun operates reliably. If you want to experiment with felt recoil from there, you can change buffers and buffer springs.

Re: the ongoing saga of fixing a cheap AR.

32
AndyH wrote:
BillMcD wrote: Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:11 am
AndyH wrote: Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:34 pm The good news is that if your rifle was 'stupidly overgassed' (<-- not a technical term) it would be a single-shot rifle. That it functions means you're in the middle of the bell curve somewhere - somewhere between "not enough gas to operate the bolt and strip a new round" and "so much gas that the gun's trying to blow the bolt back before the brass has shrunk from the chamber walls and the extractor's ripping chunks of brass off the rim without extracting the spent case". The bolt will 'short stroke' at both extremes - makes diagnosing more fun. ;)
Yeah, just stupidly overgassed rifles also kick harder, which while hard to imagine on an AR maybe, There is actually increased felt recoil when its way overgassed from the block slamming back harder. I've shot ARs that kick significantly less than mine. Its still AR recoil but there is a noticeable difference.
Once you settle on ammo and install the gas block, you can turn the gas off, and adjust it open until the gun operates reliably. If you want to experiment with felt recoil from there, you can change buffers and buffer springs.
Changing buffers is pretty easy, and they don't cost that much. My range bag always contains several: a standard carbine buffer, H, H2, and H3, for changes in conditions, ammo, or helping others out. I also carry extra bolt carriers, in both semi and full auto weights.

"Increased felt recoil" can also be induced by using too light of a buffer, e.g. using a standard carbine buffer when the gas situation calls for an H2.





"In every generation there are those who want to rule well - but they mean to rule. They promise to be good masters - but they mean to be masters." — Daniel Webster

Re: the ongoing saga of fixing a cheap AR.

33
rascally wrote: Wed Apr 25, 2018 6:50 pm
AndyH wrote:
BillMcD wrote: Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:11 am
AndyH wrote: Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:34 pm The good news is that if your rifle was 'stupidly overgassed' (<-- not a technical term) it would be a single-shot rifle. That it functions means you're in the middle of the bell curve somewhere - somewhere between "not enough gas to operate the bolt and strip a new round" and "so much gas that the gun's trying to blow the bolt back before the brass has shrunk from the chamber walls and the extractor's ripping chunks of brass off the rim without extracting the spent case". The bolt will 'short stroke' at both extremes - makes diagnosing more fun. ;)
Yeah, just stupidly overgassed rifles also kick harder, which while hard to imagine on an AR maybe, There is actually increased felt recoil when its way overgassed from the block slamming back harder. I've shot ARs that kick significantly less than mine. Its still AR recoil but there is a noticeable difference.
Once you settle on ammo and install the gas block, you can turn the gas off, and adjust it open until the gun operates reliably. If you want to experiment with felt recoil from there, you can change buffers and buffer springs.
Changing buffers is pretty easy, and they don't cost that much. My range bag always contains several: a standard carbine buffer, H, H2, and H3, for changes in conditions, ammo, or helping others out. I also carry extra bolt carriers, in both semi and full auto weights.

"Increased felt recoil" can also be induced by using too light of a buffer, e.g. using a standard carbine buffer when the gas situation calls for an H2.
A change in buffer still isn't going to change the fact that i get a blast of gas in the face/eyes every shot. It's a DI system that's putting too much gas into the upper receiver. If I wanted to keep the rifle I would change the gas block. Right now though I want out of the AR platform, not yet more AR stuff.

Re: the ongoing saga of fixing a cheap AR.

35
PennyForTheGuy wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 12:43 am
BillMcD wrote: I'll see what i can get for it at the next show. I'm just going to have to leave out the "gas problem."
For shame. Do not sell anything to anyone if you're not prepared to tell the truth about it. You're just screwing over the next guy. Take responsibility for your mistake.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
My mistake is trusting people at a gun show... sigh... I should probably take off the accessories, put on the cheap stock and grip, and just pawn it. I can take the parts to the show and sell those separately. Only thing is I wish I had a cheap handguard to replace the freefloat one it came with, but im not spending more money because there is no rate of return with modern firearms.

Re: the ongoing saga of fixing a cheap AR.

36
My last entry in this thread is to recommend that, if you ever decide to build an AR to suit your needs, you spend more to get a side charging upper receiver. The good ones are made without the charging handle cut, so no possibility of gas to your face.

Good luck.

"In every generation there are those who want to rule well - but they mean to rule. They promise to be good masters - but they mean to be masters." — Daniel Webster

Re: the ongoing saga of fixing a cheap AR.

37
BillMcD wrote: Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:56 pm
rascally wrote: Wed Apr 25, 2018 6:50 pm
AndyH wrote:
BillMcD wrote: Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:11 am

Yeah, just stupidly overgassed rifles also kick harder, which while hard to imagine on an AR maybe, There is actually increased felt recoil when its way overgassed from the block slamming back harder. I've shot ARs that kick significantly less than mine. Its still AR recoil but there is a noticeable difference.
Once you settle on ammo and install the gas block, you can turn the gas off, and adjust it open until the gun operates reliably. If you want to experiment with felt recoil from there, you can change buffers and buffer springs.
Changing buffers is pretty easy, and they don't cost that much. My range bag always contains several: a standard carbine buffer, H, H2, and H3, for changes in conditions, ammo, or helping others out. I also carry extra bolt carriers, in both semi and full auto weights.

"Increased felt recoil" can also be induced by using too light of a buffer, e.g. using a standard carbine buffer when the gas situation calls for an H2.
A change in buffer still isn't going to change the fact that i get a blast of gas in the face/eyes every shot. It's a DI system that's putting too much gas into the upper receiver. If I wanted to keep the rifle I would change the gas block. Right now though I want out of the AR platform, not yet more AR stuff.
I get that you want out, and that's completely fine. I'm sorry that you got a lemon and it soured you on the platform. Maybe leave it in the corner for a month or so until the frustration bleeds off and re-evaluate then. I hit a couple of frustration walls when I was building my -10 but in hindsight, the education was priceless and I'm really enjoying the sub-MOA rifle.

Re: the ongoing saga of fixing a cheap AR.

39
An update: After cooling off for a while, I'm probably going to start slowly piecing together a new AR as I find parts I like at prices I like. There is no rush in this project so i can cut costs by just waiting for sales. I'm not going to go for cheap parts, just cheaper prices. I'm not sure where I'm going to go with it entirely, but I figure you can't go wrong with good fundamentals.

first parts, upgraded lower internals at half off.

Re: the ongoing saga of fixing a cheap AR.

40
BillMcD wrote:An update: After cooling off for a while, I'm probably going to start slowly piecing together a new AR as I find parts I like at prices I like. There is no rush in this project so i can cut costs by just waiting for sales. I'm not going to go for cheap parts, just cheaper prices. I'm not sure where I'm going to go with it entirely, but I figure you can't go wrong with good fundamentals.

first parts, upgraded lower internals at half off.
That's the ticket! It took me about a year to finish my last one, waiting for sale prices for what I wanted. Also sometimes took a while to find the right things...but in the end I had pretty much what I wanted. Patience can bring rewards.

Also, ARPartsFinder can be very enlightening. The price spread on some things is astounding...

Ammoseek, same thing. Why pay double what you have to?

"In every generation there are those who want to rule well - but they mean to rule. They promise to be good masters - but they mean to be masters." — Daniel Webster

Re: the ongoing saga of fixing a cheap AR.

42
Darnit. I blew it again (okay maybe not so much). I didn't go buying a cheap AR, but i went and bought a bunch of things on sale and am now waiting on them to all ship, minus one which i have yet to sort out how i'm going to order, IE the lower receiver. At least I chose all these parts myself and know what I'm getting as compared to the hodge podge of random crap someone else might try to sell me. I know it won't have resale value but this is going to be a tinker gun for sure.

I might be missing some random parts but i can get the rest easy enough.

Re: the ongoing saga of fixing a cheap AR.

43
Huh...I thought I read that there was no rush. Silly me... And here I was thinking about what advice to give. Oh well.

The lower receiver isn't all that critical. I've always used Aero Precision, but Palmetto State Armory (PSA) can be had cheaper when on sale. Just be aware that PSA is not known for fast shipping. And stay away from their "Freedom' line...

Good luck, and maybe keep us apprised.

Someone in the past posted about a book, "The Definitive Guide to AR Building", or something like that. Maybe they'll remember.

Finally, regarding YouTube how-to videos...not everyone who puts up a video knows what they're talking about.


"In every generation there are those who want to rule well - but they mean to rule. They promise to be good masters - but they mean to be masters." — Daniel Webster

Re: the ongoing saga of fixing a cheap AR.

44
rascally wrote: Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:09 pm Huh...I thought I read that there was no rush. Silly me... And here I was thinking about what advice to give. Oh well.

The lower receiver isn't all that critical. I've always used Aero Precision, but Palmetto State Armory (PSA) can be had cheaper when on sale. Just be aware that PSA is not known for fast shipping. And stay away from their "Freedom' line...

Good luck, and maybe keep us apprised.

Someone in the past posted about a book, "The Definitive Guide to AR Building", or something like that. Maybe they'll remember.

Finally, regarding YouTube how-to videos...not everyone who puts up a video knows what they're talking about.
No rush, but there were sales and i couldn't resist. If i find something silly like a moron label on it that i wasn't expecting, I'll just put a decal over it or something. I'm definitely buying that book.

Re: the ongoing saga of fixing a cheap AR.

46
BillMcD wrote:
rascally wrote: Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:09 pm Huh...I thought I read that there was no rush. Silly me... And here I was thinking about what advice to give. Oh well.

The lower receiver isn't all that critical. I've always used Aero Precision, but Palmetto State Armory (PSA) can be had cheaper when on sale. Just be aware that PSA is not known for fast shipping. And stay away from their "Freedom' line...

Good luck, and maybe keep us apprised.

Someone in the past posted about a book, "The Definitive Guide to AR Building", or something like that. Maybe they'll remember.

Finally, regarding YouTube how-to videos...not everyone who puts up a video knows what they're talking about.
No rush, but there were sales and i couldn't resist. If i find something silly like a moron label on it that i wasn't expecting, I'll just put a decal over it or something. I'm definitely buying that book.
Well...try not to look at the 4th of July sales coming up. They're usually pretty good. And Labor Day sales...and Christmas sales, etc, etc...

Oh, and found that book...post #6 in this thread.

"In every generation there are those who want to rule well - but they mean to rule. They promise to be good masters - but they mean to be masters." — Daniel Webster

Re: the ongoing saga of fixing a cheap AR.

47
rascally wrote: Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:47 pm
BillMcD wrote:
rascally wrote: Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:09 pm Huh...I thought I read that there was no rush. Silly me... And here I was thinking about what advice to give. Oh well.

The lower receiver isn't all that critical. I've always used Aero Precision, but Palmetto State Armory (PSA) can be had cheaper when on sale. Just be aware that PSA is not known for fast shipping. And stay away from their "Freedom' line...

Good luck, and maybe keep us apprised.

Someone in the past posted about a book, "The Definitive Guide to AR Building", or something like that. Maybe they'll remember.

Finally, regarding YouTube how-to videos...not everyone who puts up a video knows what they're talking about.
No rush, but there were sales and i couldn't resist. If i find something silly like a moron label on it that i wasn't expecting, I'll just put a decal over it or something. I'm definitely buying that book.
Well...try not to look at the 4th of July sales coming up. They're usually pretty good. And Labor Day sales...and Christmas sales, etc, etc...

Oh, and found that book...post #6 in this thread.
Yes the perils of buying things. :roflmao: I should be fine for a good while now though, namely because I've run out of space. Evidently theres a more current version than V2 so im getting that. If its bad, I'll get V2.

UPDATE: there's that thomas jefferson quote about the blood of tyrants on the receiver so im probably going to be filling that in and pasting over it with a decal. Now is not the time to advocate for more violence.

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